Johnson family in Manchester?

kenm said:
To sum up:.....

Phew.

Shame the globetrotting exploits of Wilfrid prevent him from appearing in the UK records, though.
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Wow Ken, that's some serious research, very impressive :clap:

What a fascinating story.
 
The Matt said:
You could perhaps approach a local archive or history library to see if they have any Street Directories for the time and the place - Most UK Towns had them. They were the yellow pages of the day, and a photographer might have advertised his services in one. You may also find army service records on Ancestry.com.
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Thanks for that Matt(y)

I do not think our Wilfrid was commercially active as a photographer...but then I could be wrong:bonk:

I think he purely lived the good life as one would have done in his time with that amount of money at his disposal...

I am hoping that I am correct that our Wilfrid was not in the military although I cannot discount it absolutely with the amount of information presently at my disposal...

Cheers!
 
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kenm said:
To sum up:

1881 Census, we have Wilfrid, born in Eccles around 1880. James and Mary Johnson are his parents living at Booth’s Hall Avenue in Worsley. Also listed are brothers Percy C (age 6), Harold M (4), and Leonard C T (3 weeks or months).

1891 Census has Wilfrid at prep school in Sedbergh. This census doesn’t tell us much else. Think father died previous year.

1901 Census has no mention of Wilfrid, but Percy (26), Harold W? (24), Leonard C (20) living with Mary. Northfield and Bury Old Road are mentioned but the address is a bit confusing.

1911 Census has Harold Marsland Johnson living with wife and two children, Alfred Clarkson (7) and Betty Clarkson (3). They are at The Old Tannery Tynnes Cheshire. No idea where this is but the district is Bucklow, not far from where I live.

There is a military record of a Percy Clarkson Johnson of the Manchester Regiment getting killed in action on 15 May 1915, and there is a probate record stating death at Dardenelles which ties in with what Baz says. However , he is listed as being from Namilongwi Pemba, Northern Rhodesia.

James (the father) is listed in the 1881 census as being a cotton spinner employing 78 people. However there is a probate entry saying James Clarkson Johnson died on 28 March 1890 as an ironmaster at Bradford Iron Works. Brother is listed as John Thewlis Johnson, hence why I think he is related to this bunch and is the same person. Estate valued at £41,531,9s,8d, btw. That would have paid for the camera.

Finally, Harold Marsland Johnson turns up dead in 1949 with Robert Alfred Clarkson named in probate. One of the same name crops up in the UK patent applications as applying for a patent in 1930 on behalf of the Bradford Iron Works: http://patent.ipexl.com/GB/GB347045.html

Phew.

Shame the globetrotting exploits of Wilfrid prevent him from appearing in the UK records, though.
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Fantastic info and thanks for all the effort Ken.

The 1881 census info ties up nicely with the info of the Mr Johnson listed on the ship (S.A. to Britain) in 1924. Could you find any more on that?

His absence from the 1901 census makes sense as he was globe-trotting at the time...possibly Germany or Egypt or both IIRC

Most of 1902 he was in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) and he was in S.A. in 1903...this alone leads me to think that he was not in the military.

The Wilfrid Johnson that returned to Britain in 1924 (Age 45) was listed as farmer by profession. This fits in nicely with the Bushman's Kop / Rouxville address.

What I do not understand is the fact that he settled in an area that was rather a Boer stronghold or very pro-Boer at least...

I would have thought it more likely for him to have settled in Natal which, now and then, is predominantly English.

I will guess that he probably had enough of stock theft and his livestock disappearing into Lesotho (the then Basutoland) as this is a problem to this day...exept, now they diversified to include cars in their portfolio...:p

I have sent a mail to the Hill Club in Sri Lanka...would be interesting to see if they respond.

I suppose the next idea would be to see if we could pick up clues after 1924...a 1931 census maybe?

Oh, and then I need to photograph and post booklet #2:bonk:
 
Ken, so if I have this right, John, the father of our Wilfrid was the brother of John Thewlis?

John Thewlis was high up the corporate ladder in Bradford Iron Works and he was then also the uncle of our Wilfrid?

My question is then, if John was successful in his own right in the cotton industry, why did he later work for Bradford?

Post-retirement tinkering (not that he should have needed to!) or did he sell his cotton spinning business to buy into Bradford?

Having left an estate of 45 000 GBP I guess he was no pauper...

Fascinating!
 
Unfortunately the 1931 census is not publically available (100 year rule, nor is the 1921 census) so other avenues will have to be followed.

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
Unfortunately the 1931 census is not publically available (100 year rule, nor is the 1921 census) so other avenues will have to be followed.

Andy
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Awww, damn, that is a long time to wait...

Let's hope some farmers in the Rouxville and Zastron areas can come up with some info...
 
I found and spoke to the owner of the farm where our Wilfrid lived!

It is the farm Klaarwater which is loosely an Afrikaans / Dutch translation of Clearwater as noted in the booklet by Wilfrid himself.

I would like to think that Clearwater is rather a translation by Wilfrid of the actual name to English.

The current owner will now go and dig in the history to see what he can find out about our Wilfrid...
 
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Another UPDATE....

D.V. it has been arranged and accommodation booked:D:D:D

On 21 June 2013, 110 years later to the day and minute, I shall be on Clearwater / Klaarwater Farm and at 12:00 and 12:05 or as close to that as possible I shall be making two exposures as similar as possible to the inscriptions as noted in the booklet on the last page.

The 12:00 entry on 21 June 1903 lists "Snow on the Basuto Hills" and the 12:05 entry lists "Clearwater in snow"

Now, snow in that area is more common (justabout certain!) in July and August according to all I have spoken to but, hey, maybe we are lucky...who knows?
 
Wow, that would be a superb thing to do. A perfect way to close the circle.

Andy
 
That's brilliant Anton, a very suitable and apt memorial.
 
What a great thread, it makes film work so worthwhile.

Congrats to you Anton.
 
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Andysnap said:
Wow, that would be a superb thing to do. A perfect way to close the circle.

Andy
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RaglanSurf said:
That's brilliant Anton, a very suitable and apt memorial.
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medwaygreen said:
What a great thread, it makes film work so worthwhile.

Congrats to you Anton.
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Cheers everyone, great to have a platform on which to share this with you guys!

Hope I can keep a constant feed of worthwhile events relevant to this thread until the big day of 21 June 2013(y)
 
antonroland said:
Ken, so if I have this right, John, the father of our Wilfrid was the brother of John Thewlis?

John Thewlis was high up the corporate ladder in Bradford Iron Works and he was then also the uncle of our Wilfrid?

My question is then, if John was successful in his own right in the cotton industry, why did he later work for Bradford?

Post-retirement tinkering (not that he should have needed to!) or did he sell his cotton spinning business to buy into Bradford?

Having left an estate of 45 000 GBP I guess he was no pauper...

Fascinating!
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Yes, I think they were brothers. They didn’t crop up too often in the censuses, presumably due to boarding school. However both names have the same mother and father and both named in the probate records. Not sure why the father went from cotton to Iron, but the latter seemed to be the more successful enterprise (Wilfred was well off, but it seems that the John Thewlis side was minted). Also, the father died young and the Mother seems to have relocated to London. Her address at death was 9 Cranley Place Kensington, which is the same address given on the Wilfrid’s destination on the passenger list.

John Thewlis had a son Herbert Alfred Johnson, who was a Colonel in the Manchester Regiment and managed to survive WW1 despite being involved in the first day of the Somme. He got injured and missed most of the mayhem. Lucky escape:

http://www.themanchesters.org/The1stjuly.htm
 
Ken, if ever I get to the UK I will buy you a beer and a prime steak!

Thank you so much for that!

Any idea when Wilfrid's mother passed away? After 1924?

This was then probably the reason why he left S.A. to return to Britain.
 
Would really be great if I could trace a living descendant of this man...

I know I would love to hear and see this kind of stuff of my great Grandfather if it should surface somewhere...
 
The mother (Mary Helen Johnson) died in 1934 (born about 1850 so she did well unless my info is mixed up) and the father James (not John) Clarkson Johnson in 1890 (born 1842)
 
Just a quick update...

M5V8475.jpg


This is what she looks like now!:nuts:
 
M5V8481.jpg


I am currently talking to a manufacturing jeweler who can take this basic steel screw fix and add on a little polished brass knob that (with some license) will hopefully better resemble the original thing.

There are about 16 aperture blades inside this lens and the aperture is near perfectly round throughout it's range from f/8 to f/64!(y)
 
A thing of beauty Anton, you have done it proud. I'm really, ridiculously, over-excited about seeing the results from it.

Andy
 
The eagle-eyed among us will no doubt have spotted a thing or two in the image in the above post...

The screws attaching the lens mount ring to the lens board are not brass but stainless steel as I simply cannot source suitably sized brass screws.

Also, the centre top of 5 screws holding the screw mount ring is also not yet fitted and here is why:

M5V8509.jpg


I understand that this camera has little monetary value...about GBP 200.00 to GBP 300.00 should get you one IF you can find one for sale. This is roughly the price of a decent RB 67 on eBay.

The things I am fixing are as close as possible to the original as far I can do but thanks to 120 years of use and abuse she will never be as new again.

This is quite OK with me because (1) not even Bill Gates can afford to buy her off me and (2) I want her to be in a workable state YESTERDAY!

Looking into the back of her those screws are highly visible and I will probably paint them matt black eventually. More importantly, they are out of the way of all delicate bits, especially the bellows.

The only problem is the top centre screw which will limit the vertical travel of the lens board.

Only time will tell if those extreme 5 or 6mm are essential and so I will either fit the centre top as the other 4 are done or simply plug in a dummy screw head to make it look complete.

Cheers everyone!(y)
 
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Andysnap said:
A thing of beauty Anton, you have done it proud. I'm really, ridiculously, over-excited about seeing the results from it.

Andy
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Thanx Andy!

I assure you I am possibly a wee bit more excited than you:D

I have ordered the new ground glass and once that is installed I can start fiddling with sheet film to see how she performs...June 2013 is round the corner!:naughty:

I am considering a reversible mod to the film holder with some patience (yes, me...:naughty:) and balsa wood.

The plan is to be able to fit 4x5 sheet film whole as trying to cut it down to 3.25" x 4.25" will surely be a PITA of note and who cares if the lens only uses the inner 70-80% of the 4x5 neg? It would have been cut off and wasted anyway!

But, MANY tests to be done and experts to consult with results to see if that will be viable...

Time will tell but what fun trying!:nuts:
 
Woohoo!!

Super service from Mr Steve Hopf in California!

Days ago I ordered a replacement ground glass and today it has been paid, possibly shipping today...what time is it in California now?:D

Got me the borosilicate version which is apparently optically pure and colourless. He makes them by hand.

Can't wait for it to land!

Anyone who want to know more about Steve Hopf can see his site here:

http://www.hopfglass.com/
 
The trail went a bit cold but thinking that a family like this would have to try their hand in politics at some point, I started to look at politicians with the Johnson name. So I find the Conservative MP for Manchester Blackley, elected 1951 and ousted in the 1964 election: Eric Seymour Thewlis Johnson (1897-1978). Pretty sure he was the grandson of John Thewlis Johnson. He also saw action in WW1 as a young man, getting decorated (and wounded) for taking out a machine gun battery in the last days of 1918.

Do folk want to know about any of the other interesting things I’ve found out about this family, or are we only interested in photo stuff?
 
kenm said:
The trail went a bit cold but thinking that a family like this would have to try their hand in politics at some point, I started to look at politicians with the Johnson name. So I find the Conservative MP for Manchester Blackley, elected 1951 and ousted in the 1964 election: Eric Seymour Thewlis Johnson (1897-1978). Pretty sure he was the grandson of John Thewlis Johnson. He also saw action in WW1 as a young man, getting decorated (and wounded) for taking out a machine gun battery in the last days of 1918.

Do folk want to know about any of the other interesting things I’ve found out about this family, or are we only interested in photo stuff?
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I for one would like to know more, Ken, please share!


Heather
 
Ken, I say let's have it!

If we really take it too far I am sure the Mods will gently nudge us in the right direction.

What I do find interesting is possible division in the family(?)

So the John Thewlis side are conservatives but his brother James, the father of our Wilfrid names his son Thomas Clarkson after the great opponent to the slave trade...

Hardly what I would expect from a conservative...or am I reading things that don't exist?

Thanks for all your scratching! Oh, and by the way, what on earth are probate records?
 
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Probate records are records disposing of a deceased individual’s property, could include a last will and testament.

More please Ken, its very interesting indeed.

Andy
 
This is getting too complicated to do in my head so I’m trying to get it into some sort of electronic format. In the meantime, some interesting trivia:

There was a fellow called George Bedson (died 1884) from Sutton Coldfield who worked as a technical manager with Bradford Ironworks for 30 years. He invented the continuous wire rolling mill, which allowed long lengths of wire without joints. This apparently revolutionised the telecoms industry and explains why the company was involved in early transatlantic and cross channel cabling. So without him, no Internet! (ok, somebody else would have come along and invented it eventually).

Herbert (the son of John Thewlis and commander of the 4th battalion) in the 1911 census was living with his family and 20 servants in Farnah Hall in Derbyshire. One of the servant’s ocupation was listed as chauffeur, so they must have had a car as well.

With this background of wealth and privilege it’s not surprising that our MP opted to represent the Conservative party when he stood for parliament in 1951, even though his Victorian ancestors might have been associated more with liberalism. His father was John T’s other son, Ernest, who lived at Snelson House, Chelford, which is still standing:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=53.268532,-2.298063&spn=0.001131,0.001998&t=m&z=19
 
Cheers Nick!

Thanks for the comment!

My sentiment throughout was getting her workable to see if she can deliver a marketable image.

In her years she has had more than her fair share of bumps and bruises so to think she has value as a collector's item might be more than a bit naive...

Still, I want to preserve her to the best of my ability and where my abilities fall short there are some fantastic folks willing to help...I need to get that shutter box off to the UK for rebuild asap...

If all goes well and the weather plays along she will test-fire her first two negs today!:D

Have a fab day everyone!
 
I am happy to report she is now fully functional!:D

I have done about 6 or 7 test shots and despite ALL the schoolboy mistakes in development and some Murphy factor she captures MAGNIFICENT detail!

Who would think a lens from the 1890's with two elements and zero coatings could do this?

I promise to put an image or two as soon as I can but may day job does not go by banker's hours...:bang:

Anyone wanna buy a 5D MkIII?:naughty:
 
Excellent news Anton, I'm positively drooling with excitement.... piccies asap please. (y)

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
Excellent news Anton, I'm positively drooling with excitement.... piccies asap please. (y)

Andy
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Promise to do so Andy!

Had about 2 hrs sleep last night with crime scenes and what not...will probably not get much done before next weekend, still working this coming weekend:crying:.

2400 dpi scans on my V750 would do for a bit of bragging though!

Cheers!
 
:banana:
IMG0101.jpg


Well, here it is!:woot:

This is a 2400 dpi scan of the complete 4x5 neg with absolutely no PP except cropping it down to a forum friendly size.

No drop-off of anything in the corners that I can see!:thinking::D

Oh, and the funny blotch top left is because Dopey here stupidly switched the light on before closing the box...
 
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IMG010_crop.jpg


And here is a 100% crop of a very amateurish 2400 dpi Epson V750 scan using the Epson carriers so pretty much only good for screen samples such as this...

PP on this included a levels adjustment layer with overlay blending mode set to 80% opacity,

A levels adjustment layer with screen blending mode set to 80% opacity.

After cropping I applied USM with a percentage of 106, radius of 1.2 and levels 5
 
Well Anton I'm extremely impressed. Given its age and exertions the IQ is excellent, well done on a very good restoration job, I'm really looking forward to seeing some landscapes.
:clap::clap::clap:

Andy
 
Sonriendo said:
Fabulous, you must be thrilled to bits :D
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Oh, I am Sarah and thanks for your response!(y)

By next weekend the day job will allow me some outing time...can't wait!:D
 
Andysnap said:
Well Anton I'm extremely impressed. Given its age and exertions the IQ is excellent, well done on a very good restoration job, I'm really looking forward to seeing some landscapes.
:clap::clap::clap:

Andy
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Thanx Andy!(y)(y)

When it started happening it started happening very quickly:D

If all goes well, next weekend will see me shooting a seascape or two!:nuts:

I am kind of wondering whether it would be sacrilege to shoot colour film in her...:LOL:

For now B&W is infinitely easier and quicker though.

Cheers
 
I'm sure if colour had been available at the time our man Johnson would have used it so I see no reason why you shouldn't.

Andy
 
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