Just two questions....

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Paul Parker

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Hello Everyone,
Was advised this was a great place for information and new to the forum wondered if you could advise?

1) I am a keen sports fan, so photographing sport obviously would go hand In hand. I do take photographs for a non league football club and supply them with my images but do i need to have a non league licence to do so? I am insured.... But should I have a licence and obviously one day i'd like to photograph football at higher league levels so surely id need a licence then and what organisation do I approach to obtain one please?

2) I work full time so photography I hope will be my second income and for moment part time. If I was to approach agencies, as long as my equipment and skills meet the required standard they wouldnt pay me to attend venues but my pictures if used (whereever). Is it then I receive a percentage. Depending on agency rates is it a help to bank balances in this day and age? Yes I do love taking pcfhres for the love of it but ... Makibg extra money on the side would be a bonus!

Thanks all i'd be greatful if you could advise? Kind Regards
 
Hello....
As you can see, the information, etc isn't quite that forthcoming all the time (shame - as the Sports section really was somewhere where I got lots of good advice in the early days of the TP Forum).

Personally I gave up on covering football in the UK few years ago - with payments per image not making it worth it, about 50 togs at a game, as well as few other things (namely getting paid much more to cover other sports :) ). But I will try to give some info... and hopefully the football togs of the forum will pick-up on it and then correct all my misinformed advice???

As far as I remember - even to photograph Conference football.. a licence was just an email away. At least when I asked for one... write and ask.. and pretty much no questions was asked then.
Wouldn't know about lower than that leagues... but guessing if you at the moment do it for the Club... you should be OK for now.

I leave the 'higher' level of football licensing issue to someone more knowledgeable - guess it goes with DataCo (every footy photographers 'best' friend ;-) ).

Agencies seem to be dime-a-dozen ... some pay you to attend a game, others pay you per sold image.
Of course it is better to attend with an agency that gives you a fee to attend a game already, as you are by no means guaranteed to sell any images from every game you go to.
With you - photography being just something on the 'side' to begin with, it might not of course matter that much. As it wouldn't be your only income...
(this then on turn brings the fun-fact of you being 'weekend warrior' and stealing work from the full time photographers... which a whole new can of worms)

Is it worth it in this day and age?? Some photographers I know who cover footy - they make a very nice pay check at the end of the week from it.
Others, even very experienced and talented - have just packed in on footy as they say it just isn't worth their time anymore.

With papers/websites needing to cut budgets - at some point there always comes the question if paying £150+vat for a freelancer per image is worth it, or whether an BIG agency 'annual deal' is a better way to go when the average image can cost £15+vat.
It is the blessing and curse of English football to be so popular - as it means everyone wants a piece of the pie, but there isn't enough pie for everyone.

This is by no means trying to say that you shouldn't give it a go - if/when you get a chance.
But photography from games - and the way newspapers report from them.. it is changing and not towards paying more for game images (outside of game images for feature articles are still decent money - at least from my experience, as these often are requested specifically and they want them 'exclusive' so normally hire you to do the job with a day-rate).

Just my two pence worth....
 
Hopefully I can offer some useful advice as someone who has held a national league licence and has done some work for agencies. As well as just shooting for fun as I actually enjoy it!

You need a licence to shoot the football league and premier league, these are covered by dataco, you need to meet certain criteria to be able to apply for a licence including having had a certain number of images within a year that have been published in no lower than 'regional press', you must prove that you were paid for these.

You can get a licence to shoot national league and national league north and south by simply being insured for public liability and emailing the league, you need to fill out a simply application, show evidence of you PL insurance and then away you go once granted. I was granted a licence with no other questions. I did have a website up showing that I was a working sports photographer, whether they do any research into whether you are a genuine applicant, I don't know.

Money wise, I'd say you'd be lucky to get commissioned to photograph football now. Some people have deals with their local paper, some do get paid a fee to attend games and give over everything they get. Some do make money by wiring out images to papers and hoping to get useage.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of papers (especially local) just send their staff photographer to their local game, he/she may only stay for 10 mins to get a half decent action shot that can then illustrate whatever the match report is. I'm sure a lot the paper's will happily accept and publish anything free they might get from a game if it's of interest, but when people give away images for free to them it devalues everyone else's work so I'd personally advise against just giving stuff away hoping them might pay one day. They probably won't.

Agencies might let you go shoot under their licence if you can show that you are half decent and have the right equipment. After all, it's no layout money wise to them if they send you to the arse end of nowhere with you paying all travelling and expenses and if you get a shot published they will take 50% of not very much until you have done a certain number of games/publications when they might pay you 70% of not very much.

My personal advice would be to get a good portfolio of work together at national league level, then pester some agencies if you really want to 'make your way up the ladder'. My view, I actually enjoy photographing national league, decent standard(ish!!!), decent tackles, you can get close to the action, you generally meet decent fans that care about their local club and there's a chance that you might be able to submit pics to the non league paper or maybe get a commission or two from them.

I'd probably forget making any decent money from it for now, just get out and shoot, enjoy it, get good, then see if there's any interest. The people I know of that make a living from sports photography (which are few and far between) work exceptionally hard, always at weekends and evenings as well as during the week, to make fairly modest money. Fair play to them but I'd say it's very hard. Not impossible but it'll take more effort than just having a jolly every now and then.

Also, as is often stated, you don't just make money from sports photography by shooting at a pro level. You might get more people willing to pay you to cover sport festivals/weekend for kids, amateurs etc.

Good luck!
 
@GooGaBu and @gibtheo Thank you so much for your time replying. That's a great help. Appreciate the feedback I do love sport and photography if I can be patient and explore other avenues (sports) then i'll be happy to make what little I can ... eventually ;-)

Best Wishes
 
Hi, I used to be a full-time pro back in the day (quit 2008). I would say it is very hard to make it pay. Just think about the cost of gear. Ok the lenses could last a lifetime, but the cameras... 2 x bodies at 5K a pop, after a few years they are out-dated, and when you are competing with other guys you dont want to be at a disadvantage gear wise. I think in any other genre of photography, the camera doesn't really matter a whole lot, and I would never advise in buying the latest / best equipment, BUT when it comes to the quick-paced world of sport (if you are trying to earn from it that is), then you need a top camera for the quickest AF and weather sealed etc.

How much do the papers pay?? I was getting £150 a shift and the going rate for on spec pics was about the same. This is for the nationals by the way. Local papers?? Well if you get £20 a pic you would be lucky. So do the maths yourself.

If I was starting out in football now, I would say do it as a hobby, using S/H body and a 70-200 or a Sigma 120-300 and if you get a few quid out of it...great. But dont try and make a living out of it. Plus you will enjoy it more.

Thats my opinion, hope it helps.
 
Paul Parker said:
Hello Everyone,
Was advised this was a great place for information and new to the forum wondered if you could advise?
Thanks all i'd be greatful if you could advise? Kind Regards
Click to expand...

Hi Paul,

I documented my journey into (and eventually out of) sports photography on my blog. From low-league to the World Cup there's plenty in there for you.

You might want to start here: http://tobinators.com/blog/all-blog-posts/ and work your way through from older to newer.

Regarding earnings - you'll enjoy this post: http://tobinators.com/blog/2012/07/everything-else/annual-report/

Andy
 
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