Just... Why a Mac?

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As I have always said, the mac range is there for all to see. Everyone seems to think it's easy to walk out and buy a fantastic pc in five minutes. If you really know what you are looking at, then fine. But how many people are able to or even want to.

Let's hear some competitors for the mac mini, imac and mac pros. Just remember the mac pro's are due for an update very soon.

Only then can any meaningful comparisons be made. Just a mac is better or the other way round is so general as to be meaningless.

I just remembered why macs were so sought after for creatives in years gone by. It was the font handling. And the fact that they were totally incompatible and repro houses dreaded getting pc files. But that was historical and probably irrelevant these days due to the manufacturers and software houses hard work.

That and hardware 'drivers' which have rarely to trouble mac users. It seems to be the main stress factor among pc users (along with virus protection).

Great product design should be standard on any computer. If it doesn't look great, why not?

Graham
 
Mac or PC.. you pays your money and takes your choice. It's as simple as that.

If you don't think a Mac is worth the money then don't buy it.

I also think Apple were very smart in opening Apple Stores. It really brought the company to the customer. Plus the way they run Genius sessions for new customers , helping out with getting there email working, etc. all included within the purchase price.
 
Can anyone recommend a pc laptop with a full speed (ie not CULV etc.) dual-core processor, 2kg or less, battery life 5 hours or more, digital video out? I'm seriously thinking of buying a macbook pro and running windows via bootcamp, rather than a dell e6400 (heavier?), toshiba models (heavier or short battery life), etc.

We're only allowed Dell, Samsung, Toshiba, Sony and Apple here... :(

Thanks!
 
blue max said:
As I have always said, the mac range is there for all to see. Everyone seems to think it's easy to walk out and buy a fantastic pc in five minutes. If you really know what you are looking at, then fine. But how many people are able to or even want to.

Let's hear some competitors for the mac mini, imac and mac pros. Just remember the mac pro's are due for an update very soon.

Only then can any meaningful comparisons be made. Just a mac is better or the other way round is so general as to be meaningless.
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All that is making the assumption that the Apple range is perfect for everyone and all other computers should be compared to them. For some people the range isn't as useful, for example the big hole in their range is a proper desktop. Apple do an allinone and a workstation but not a standard desktop.

As for suggestions, well Sony and HP (I think) do allinone solutions like the imac, similar spec and similar price (Sony do a touch screen allinone as well). If you want a laptop comparable to the macbooks then again Sony do a nice selection, both attractive, well built and in sizes from the 13" CW and SZ to larger 15 and 17" models. Dell also do good quality laptops in all three sizes too. If you stick to the top brands and spend a similar amount on a windows PC as an Apple PC then you will get good quality, really all you need to choose is the design and spec, much like macs...

Unless of course you want to spend £300 on a laptop, then you deserve everything you get if you don't spend a lot of time looking, buy cheap...

You also seem to be missing the point, Macs are just another PC so it's a case of looking at them when you look at all the other ~£1000 15" laptops for example. If you don't and just pick a mac every time then you're a bit short sighted tbh...
 
Its moot. We all know Google Chrome OS is going to take over the world this year...
 
Macs just irritate the crap out of me - I tried to install a simple printer on my dads mac the other day. It took me 2 hours and it still wouldn't work. The whole "Macs just work" is, quite frankly, the biggest load of tosh I've ever heard in my life.

I've used about 4/5 different macs and every single one has had more issues than a chavy 16 year old single mum.

Lets take the printer I mentioned above. I have a printer connected to my router, all the PC's & laptops in the house are connected to it and it works beautifully and faultlessly. The mac is a whole other story. I tried connecting via IP like I done with the PC's (and that worked first time on all windows systems) - the Mac wasn't having it, it refused to recognise the printer and refused to print to it.

Ok I thought, maybe it needs to connect direct via USB first, so I connected it all up and still nothing. I didnt even know if the mac recognised there was a printer attached. Atleast windows says "Hello there, I see you've plugged this into me - lets get started!". Macs seem to just want you to guess whether its recognised it or not.

So anyway that still wasn't working. Great. So I tried looking for drivers on the HP site. Now this astonished me - there wasn't a single driver for my printer for the Mac OS (10.2.6). Now I'm fairly sure that OS isn't that old right? launched within the last 3/4 years? My PC (about 5 years old, and still about 3 times quicker than the mac) is running XP - which is what? 10 years old? and that recognized the printer and installed the god damned driver without an issue or hiccup. Why can magical Macs not recognize a printer that is newer than itself? Does Mr Jobs realistically expect me to upgrade the OS just to use a god damned printer?

Trying to connect to the Windows network was about as successful as the Printer episode. It just error-ed every time and even at one point locked the Mac and told me I had to reboot. No other option to even save web pages or anything. Windows has never ever done that.

Dont get me wrong, I've tried to like Macs, but they are kinda like 'that' guy - everyone knows one - wants desperately to be your friend and will try to help out with anything but always ends up ****ing things up more than you would think humanly possible. Because of the lack of back-compatibility, the fact I've wasted more time trying to get the bloody things to work than actually use them for their purpose, and that they rape your bank account for this pleasure - I've vowed NEVER to purchase another Apple/Mac product and also try my best to never use one again.

I look forward to any replies :p

Regards, James
 
Amp34 said:
If you don't and just pick a mac every time then you're a bit short sighted tbh...
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But if you have invested heavily in software and can buy at the right time (just after a range has been refreshed), what is the compelling reason to change?

You know your way around them, have everything setup just so. Why rock the boat. I switch into pc land occasionally for work, but it's not second nature.

As someone else mentioned, you don't often hear of people who switch from a mac to a pc and feel they have been short sighted.

I am kind of lucky as I spend something like 16hrs a day on my computer. Any saving to be made in the hardware is not really an issue over its lifetime (tends to be 3-4 years). So I stick with what I know and don't really have any regrets.

They are not the only choice, but my first choice. Only if I find they don't suit my needs will I need to look elsewhere. Time will tell if Bill Gates finally overpowers the little company in California.

Graham
 
Yes, there is the software issue (I admit I didn't really think about that, although a lot of software companies give interchangable keys, adobe for example). As for buying at the right time, after a hardware refresh, well yes, if the mac has just been refreshed and the best option for you out there then buy it, however in a few years time when you want to upgrade to a new desktop/laptop then that's where the looking round comes in. Look at the newest macbooks, then maybe have a look at the Vaios and a couple of Dell machines and go hmm, well I like the spec of that, but the design is nicer on that etc. then buy the right choice at the time (like you said).

yes obviously it's slightly more "interesting" with a mac because of the OS difference but as mentioned it still is a PC, so just blindly buying then next mac when that comes out and not actually looking around at the competition IS a bit short sighted.

This isn't an issue with cost (I already mentioned that macs aren't really much different in price to comparable, high quality machines) it's about looking to see what is the best at the time. :)

I guess that's the difference between me and a lot of mac users. I buy the best at the time, not a specific manufacturers machine. I bought my Dell laptop two years ago after looking at the Macbooks and the Vaios and the other 13" machines out there as it best suited my needs WRT specs, design, battery life ect. The macbooks couldn't compete against it at the time, being slower with smaller HDD's and shorter battery lives. When I decide to get rid of my laptop I'll again look at the Macbooks, Vaios, Dells, Hp's etc and see what is the best around at that time and then buy the best at that time, be it another Dell or a macbook. :)
 
I've got a Dell Laptop which I custom built on their website, I've had it for maybe 2 maybe approaching 3 years and never had a problem with it - except the on-board speakers not working. No crashes what so ever.

PS: This would've sounded so much better if I hadn't mentioned the speaker problem :p
 
Steven001 said:
I've got a Dell Laptop which I custom built on their website, I've had it for maybe 2 maybe approaching 3 years and never had a problem with it - except the on-board speakers not working. No crashes what so ever.

PS: This would've sounded so much better if I hadn't mentioned the speaker problem :p
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Actually, got to say, that is one of the main reasons I went for Dell in the end, the fact you can juggle around the hardware so much. If Apple allowed you to choose like Dell does (CPU speed, HDD speed and size, RAM etc.) then I would definately be more interested in one. I'm really not into buying a new machine and having to change out all the bits that aren't right and sticking in a faster HDD for example.
 
Amp34 said:
Actually, got to say, that is one of the main reasons I went for Dell in the end, the fact you can juggle around the hardware so much. If Apple allowed you to choose like Dell does (CPU speed, HDD speed and size, RAM etc.) then I would definately be more interested in one. I'm really not into buying a new machine and having to change out all the bits that aren't right and sticking in a faster HDD for example.
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if they still did a black body options and didnt want an extra 40 quid for a matte "antiglare" screen id be more interested to be honest.
 
Jamesbuk said:
So anyway that still wasn't working. Great. So I tried looking for drivers on the HP site. Now this astonished me - there wasn't a single driver for my printer for the Mac OS (10.2.6). Now I'm fairly sure that OS isn't that old right? launched within the last 3/4 years?
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Actually it's 8 years old and you can't blame Apple for HP not providing drivers anymore than you could blame Microsoft for a similar issue. However, I am not disputing your problem of course. :D
 
Jamesbuk said:
Macs just irritate the crap out of me - I tried to install a simple printer on my dads mac the other day. It took me 2 hours and it still wouldn't work. The whole "Macs just work" is, quite frankly, the biggest load of tosh I've ever heard in my life.

I've used about 4/5 different macs and every single one has had more issues than a chavy 16 year old single mum.

Lets take the printer I mentioned above. I have a printer connected to my router, all the PC's & laptops in the house are connected to it and it works beautifully and faultlessly. The mac is a whole other story. I tried connecting via IP like I done with the PC's (and that worked first time on all windows systems) - the Mac wasn't having it, it refused to recognise the printer and refused to print to it.

Ok I thought, maybe it needs to connect direct via USB first, so I connected it all up and still nothing. I didnt even know if the mac recognised there was a printer attached. Atleast windows says "Hello there, I see you've plugged this into me - lets get started!". Macs seem to just want you to guess whether its recognised it or not.

So anyway that still wasn't working. Great. So I tried looking for drivers on the HP site. Now this astonished me - there wasn't a single driver for my printer for the Mac OS (10.2.6). Now I'm fairly sure that OS isn't that old right? launched within the last 3/4 years? My PC (about 5 years old, and still about 3 times quicker than the mac) is running XP - which is what? 10 years old? and that recognized the printer and installed the god damned driver without an issue or hiccup. Why can magical Macs not recognize a printer that is newer than itself? Does Mr Jobs realistically expect me to upgrade the OS just to use a god damned printer?

Trying to connect to the Windows network was about as successful as the Printer episode. It just error-ed every time and even at one point locked the Mac and told me I had to reboot. No other option to even save web pages or anything. Windows has never ever done that.

Dont get me wrong, I've tried to like Macs, but they are kinda like 'that' guy - everyone knows one - wants desperately to be your friend and will try to help out with anything but always ends up ****ing things up more than you would think humanly possible. Because of the lack of back-compatibility, the fact I've wasted more time trying to get the bloody things to work than actually use them for their purpose, and that they rape your bank account for this pleasure - I've vowed NEVER to purchase another Apple/Mac product and also try my best to never use one again.

I look forward to any replies :p

Regards, James
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This is a connectivity thing and it can go both ways...

10.2.6 is OLD !!! 10.2 is JAGUAR and was released in August 2002 and replaced in October 2003.

If you were running a current OS the printer would just appear in the printer list when you click + so long as the drivers were available.

You say "trying to connect to a windows network was about as successful...." well again that would have just worked if you were using a current OS !

Apple even supply software to run under Windows to allow them to access a printer on a Mac to make it easier. MacOS does not require this and will work.

If you will never buy another Mac fine I'm sure they wont lose too much sleep but you can't really blame a 6-7 year old OS for not working with everything now.

You clearly know your way round Windows and don't know your way around MacOS. MacOS is a much more user friendly and intuitive OS but you still need to learn your way round it!


ADDITION: This happens Windows to Windows TOO. When I upgraded from W98 to WXP I had to buy a new scanner, when I upgraded to Vista I had to replace it again AND my expensive Audigy 2 sound card (although they later released one and I stuck the card back in). The problem is that lots of companies do not got back and release updates. It is not reasonable for Apple to release updates to JAGUAR nor for HP to release drivers for Jaguar!
 
Dont get me wrong, I've tried to like Macs, but they are kinda like 'that' guy - everyone knows one - wants desperately to be your friend and will try to help out with anything but always ends up ****ing things up more than you would think humanly possible.
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:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

That's anything with a chip in it, or even just a switch on it in my world. Ahhhhh, for the days of traveling by horse with plate cameras.
 
blue max said:
Let's hear some competitors for the mac mini, imac and mac pros. Just remember the mac pro's are due for an update very soon.
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My variant 1 Mac pro is still faster than you need to run photoshop, lightroom, dreamweaver, safari, text editor, preview, toast, itune, ical etc at the same time :) I might just up the RAM to 10Gb from 6Gb and stick Snow Leopard on, it is still running Leopard at the moment :)

The quad core Xeons that Apple are using at the moment are about to be joined by a 6 core version so we should see a 12 core Mac pro VERY soon. With the virtual core technology intel added it will appear as 24 cores !!

We are also about to see a quad core macbook pro :)

Both the above are road mapped by intel so are not too much of a crystal ball situation :)

The Mac pro although expensive is actually VERY good value when you consider the cost of the CPUs and Xeon motherboards. The CPU chip in the £1900 basic model costs £750 approx, Xeon motherboard £250, 1000W PSU £100, Quality case £100-150, HD, Cooling, optical drive, OS, keyboard, mouse and GPU - This is not too bad. When my variant Mac pro came out which is a dual dual Xeon model (Quad over two chips) the CPUs were £600 each with the motherboard being virtually identical to intels reference dual xeon motherboard which cost £480 so £1660 just for these whilst the whole computer cost £1699-22% student discount (bigger discount on PRO models :)). I have not worked anything out for the dual nehalem models but looking at the cost of the processors and dual nehalem motherboards I would suggest these are quite competitively priced.

The iMac does not really have many competitors to compare prices with but £969 for a 21.5" iMac with a 3GHz processor seems quite reasonable. Yes you can probably do better price wise but the pricing honestly seems quite good.

You also have the quality car thing with Apple computers in that their resale values are much better.

I am not a fan boy and use both Windows and Macs. I do prefer Macs as my 1st choice but both systems have good and bad points. It is like the Nikon/Canon debate....................

JUST TRY BOTH AND DECIDE - They will both do the job :)
 
It's like this.

Apple make both the hardware and software. As a result the know exactly how their software is going to work on a computer. The hardware and the software speak to each other. Windows is made to work on any machine, they have no controlwith how the software is going to perform.

The operating system is more efficient, slimmer, easier to use than windows. Everything about the OS is what you are paying for and why they are more expensive.

A good example of why mac is inherantly better than windows is ask yourself- have you ever met anyone who was a mac user convert to using windows? Now ask yourself how many have done the switch the other way round. I think you know the answer and the reasons above scratch the surface of why.
 
LemmingLover said:
I think this debate has run it's course but I really can't let this one pass. MS have over 90% of the market and Apple 5% at best. So in a way, yes, that does "tell you all you need to know".

EDIT: I see someone beat me to that :bonk:
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cowasaki said:
Your stats are a little out of date it is about 15% Apple, 80+% MS now.
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Always makes me laugh when somebody comes up with a figure like that

So Ford are better than Aston Martin (ford sell more)
Susan Boyle was the Best album of 2009 (biggest selling last year)
X Factor is he best show on TV (most watched )


And your comparing operating system there, not the actual computers as Microsoft don't sell computers, they sell software (x Box excluded) so to compare you need sales figures for

Apple
Dell
Sony
HP
and so on.
 
It doesn't matter what the figures are. Just because something has a bigger marketshare doesn't make it a better product, it just means they have better sales channels and marketting. What's important is how that marketshare is changing and if you look over the last 5 years AND predicted next 10 you'll see apples marketshare growing and microsofts diminishing. The world is realising that they have a choice and aren't going to be spoonfed by the Market leader anymore
 
Cowaski - Does it matter its old? XP is older and the printers work fine, as of course does the networking. So yes, I can blame apple/mac - if they dont have any form of back-compatibility then the thing is bloody useless. Why can windows make a system that will work with a newer printer, but apple cant?

toph101 - My point was, most fan-boys say "oh macs just work, plug it in and its all love and roses" - twaddle. Macs dont just work - all the Macs I've used, even those in a commercial environment, have had massive issues.

10.2 is JAGUAR and was released in August 2002 and replaced in October 2003.
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Really? so they had an OS that lasted just over a year? Thats rather pathetic.
To me, it seems apple release far too many updates and new os's that by the time you've installed the new one, another is released and doesnt allow half your stuff to work. Atleast with windows they give you a few years of plain sailing before they try to screw you for another OS. Of course Windows release updates/patches - but atleast they allow me to use my equipment after I've updated.

The 'logic' within them seems completely backwards too. Again the printer issue, I plug it in and I await some confirmation that things are great - I get nothing. After searching the web, I find out you have to set it up via a 'print center' - sorry but why can it not just have a pop up that tells me whether its working or whether its f'd up.

Some of the other problems I've seen/experienced/sorted with other peoples macs.

Mac Mini + Mac all in one jobby not connecting properly via networking.
Mac Mini - not connecting to a scanner even with appropriate drivers installed
Mac all in one jobby - freezing every 10 minutes.
Mac all in one jobby - Deleted a load of files (luckily the user had backed them up a couple days before)
Mac Mini - Not sure if this was its fault, but it worked perfectly on a mac all in one jobby for ages - but it blew up a £1000 professional tablet pad.
Mac G4 box - requiring a reboot everytime a keyboard or mouse is plugged in.

Not had many problems with the laptops though, they seem to be fairly decent. Apart from being nicked - whether thats to do with the logo or not I dont know but Ill let that slide ;) .

MacOS is a much more user friendly and intuitive OS
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Thats clearly a matter of opinion. Windows tells you what its doing, Macs let you guess. I dont want to guess, I just want to turn it on and have it work. Macs really aren't user friendly, they are just shiny - so people who like shiny, flashy items buy them and think they are better. Which I guess makes you a magpie.

James
 
Just want to poke my hand up and say "My Mac just works" :D Very stable, feels solid. Windows 7 does too though....however, as if tempted by fate....this happened yesterday.

POWER CUT AT HOME. Power went off for I dunno, 3 seconds.
PC Came back on.
Windows 7 kept restarting mid boot, after the boot it asked me if I wanted to try a repair. To get out of the restart loop, I had to say YES. Then I got a blue screen.....an endless trap over and over. I was resigned to a reformat after I tried different things over an hour or so.

Woke up this morning, it booted first time :bang:

Gary.
 
Jamesbuk said:
Macs let you guess. I dont want to guess, I just want to turn it on and have it work. Macs really aren't user friendly, they are just shiny.
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I'm confused by this ....it's extremely user friendly, I mean how hard can it be? Mahoosive icons bottom of your screen, click & go :) And it all just works!!! :LOL:

Not sure where the guesswork comes into it either?

Windows 7 is even closer to OSX now with its redesigned Task Bar...it's a great improvement IMO.

G.
 
Jamesbuk said:
Cowaski - Does it matter its old? XP is older and the printers work fine, as of course does the networking. So yes, I can blame apple/mac - if they dont have any form of back-compatibility then the thing is bloody useless. Why can windows make a system that will work with a newer printer, but apple cant?
[/QUOTE=Jamesbuk;2249649]
They can, I've had exactly the opposite experience to this. My printer took 3 weeks to get working with my pc. It worked in 30 seconds

toph101 - My point was, most fan-boys say "oh macs just work, plug it in and its all love and roses" - twaddle. Macs dont just work - all the Macs I've used, even those in a commercial environment, have had massive issues.



Really? so they had an OS that lasted just over a year? Thats rather pathetic.
To me, it seems apple release far too many updates and new os's that by the time you've installed the new one, another is released and doesnt allow half your stuff to work. Atleast with windows they give you a few years of plain sailing before they try to screw you for another OS. Of course Windows release updates/patches - but atleast they allow me to use my equipment after I've updated.

The 'logic' within them seems completely backwards too. Again the printer issue, I plug it in and I await some confirmation that things are great - I get nothing. After searching the web, I find out you have to set it up via a 'print center' - sorry but why can it not just have a pop up that tells me whether its working or whether its f'd up.

Some of the other problems I've seen/experienced/sorted with other peoples macs.

Mac Mini + Mac all in one jobby not connecting properly via networking.
Mac Mini - not connecting to a scanner even with appropriate drivers installed
Mac all in one jobby - freezing every 10 minutes.
Mac all in one jobby - Deleted a load of files (luckily the user had backed them up a couple days before)
Mac Mini - Not sure if this was its fault, but it worked perfectly on a mac all in one jobby for ages - but it blew up a £1000 professional tablet pad.
Mac G4 box - requiring a reboot everytime a keyboard or mouse is plugged in.

Not had many problems with the laptops though, they seem to be fairly decent. Apart from being nicked - whether thats to do with the logo or not I dont know but Ill let that slide ;) .



Thats clearly a matter of opinion. Windows tells you what its doing, Macs let you guess. I dont want to guess, I just want to turn it on and have it work. Macs really aren't user friendly, they are just shiny - so people who like shiny, flashy items buy them and think they are better. Which I guess makes you a magpie.

James
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Just to add to my post, can any mac user clearly define HOW a Mac is more user friendly than a Windows?

For example - how will a Mac help me edit a picture in photoshop that the Windows wont do?
How will a mac help me write a document in word or write emails all day?

User Friendliness cant just be defined by having big buttons, because my PC can do that and doesn't cost nearly as much ;)

Im off now but I look forward to the replies..!

James
 
If you're happy with your PC - stick with it!
If you're happy with your Mac - stick with it!
If you're still undecided - this thread will not help you out!

:)
 
Jamesbuk said:
Just to add to my post, can any mac user clearly define HOW a Mac is more user friendly than a Windows?

For example - how will a Mac help me edit a picture in photoshop that the Windows wont do?
How will a mac help me write a document in word or write emails all day?

User Friendliness cant just be defined by having big buttons, because my PC can do that and doesn't cost nearly as much ;)

Im off now but I look forward to the replies..!

James
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I think this is the crux of the argument. On the other hand, how can you tell me windows is more user friendly? You can't. Different strokes for different folks.

I personally prefer mac, and to me it works better. I find you need to have less computer knowledge to keep things running smooth, which to me is a major advantage.

The only thing that bothers me in these arguments is people who slate Mac OS yet have not had any real experience with it, just tinkered with a mates etc.

Unless you have used both OS for at least 6 months, I cannot see how any comment can be considered relevant, as all OS has a learning curve.:bang:
 
Jamesbuk said:
Cowaski - Does it matter its old? XP is older and the printers work fine, as of course does the networking. So yes, I can blame apple/mac - if they dont have any form of back-compatibility then the thing is bloody useless. Why can windows make a system that will work with a newer printer, but apple cant?
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Windows is an OS. MS don't write drivers for products the companies that make them do! If HP can't be bothered writing drivers it is hardly Apple's fault! The back compatibility with MacOS is far better look at the problems with 64/32 bit drivers and software under Windows! With the introduction of Snow Leopard (which is a real 64 bit OS) there have been VERY few issues (my "3" network dongle didn't work so not totally clear but "3" are replacing it!). Having to write different instructions for different OSes because of differing security problems. I would actually be surprised if the later drivers don't work though.

Jamesbuk said:
toph101 - My point was, most fan-boys say "oh macs just work, plug it in and its all love and roses" - twaddle. Macs dont just work - all the Macs I've used, even those in a commercial environment, have had massive issues.
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You really are a fanboy!

Jamesbuk said:
Really? so they had an OS that lasted just over a year? Thats rather pathetic.
Click to expand...

Windows ME

Jamesbuk said:
To me, it seems apple release far too many updates and new os's that by the time you've installed the new one, another is released and doesnt allow half your stuff to work. Atleast with windows they give you a few years of plain sailing before they try to screw you for another OS. Of course Windows release updates/patches - but atleast they allow me to use my equipment after I've updated.
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You have an issue that Apple continually improve things? Apple bring out a new OS every year or so. The last one SNOW LEOPARD cost £25! What are they supposed to do sit around and make people put up with problems (Vista!) I installed LEOPARD over TIGER and SNOW LEOPARD over LEOPARD on numerous machines without any issues over than Epson releasing the LEOPARD driver for my printer 2 weeks after Leopard was released. I have previously had to change sound cards, scanners and printers with upgrades to Windows!


Jamesbuk said:
The 'logic' within them seems completely backwards too. Again the printer issue, I plug it in and I await some confirmation that things are great - I get nothing. After searching the web, I find out you have to set it up via a 'print center' - sorry but why can it not just have a pop up that tells me whether its working or whether its f'd up.
Click to expand...

What about the issue where some USB items under Windows require that you plug them in then install the drivers whilst some insist you install the drivers then install the item. Read the instructions and visit the site if necessary, it is true most normal consumer items just plug in and work under BOTH OSes.


Jamesbuk said:
Some of the other problems I've seen/experienced/sorted with other peoples macs.

Mac Mini + Mac all in one jobby not connecting properly via networking.
Mac Mini - not connecting to a scanner even with appropriate drivers installed
Mac all in one jobby - freezing every 10 minutes.
Mac all in one jobby - Deleted a load of files (luckily the user had backed them up a couple days before)
Mac Mini - Not sure if this was its fault, but it worked perfectly on a mac all in one jobby for ages - but it blew up a £1000 professional tablet pad.
Mac G4 box - requiring a reboot everytime a keyboard or mouse is plugged in.
Click to expand...

If I start listing the problems I have had with Windows, Linus OR MacOS then this thread will reach the 7 page region VERY quickly!


Jamesbuk said:
Not had many problems with the laptops though, they seem to be fairly decent. Apart from being nicked - whether thats to do with the logo or not I dont know but Ill let that slide ;) .
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I have been accused of being a Windows fanboy, sticking up for Windows in a MacOS/Windows debate before. I use both OSes extensively and produce software for BOTH. I have EVERY version of Windows still going back to W95 and every version of MacOS going back to JAGUAR. I built PCs when they still used 8086 processors so I don't have an axe to grind.

I really like the design of Apple laptops but that does not make me a fanboy. There have been lots of laptops from tier 1 Windows suppliers that I have also liked. I end up repairing at least one hardware fault on a Windows laptop every month even though I retired from that work and also repair Apple machines so again I have no axe to grind.

Apple desktop machines tend to be less of a problem than laptops so your experience seems strange but I'm not saying it isn't true


Jamesbuk said:
Thats clearly a matter of opinion. Windows tells you what its doing, Macs let you guess. I dont want to guess, I just want to turn it on and have it work. Macs really aren't user friendly, they are just shiny - so people who like shiny, flashy items buy them and think they are better. Which I guess makes you a magpie.

James
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Well this is ridiculous. Windows tells you what its doing? When it grinds to a halt due to lack of resources. The reality is that both OSes have their good points. The one BIG advantage of Windows machines never seems to come up which surprises me...

If the motherboard goes on my Mac Pro..... repair bill £650

If the motherboard goes on my PC...... repair bill £100


If the sound goes on my PC...... New quality sound card £30

If the sound goes on my Mac Pro...... repair bill £650


etc etc...... The BIG advantage of windows machines is the ability to get cards etc from multiple suppliers with choice BUT this is also it's downfall with an OS that has to be compatible with thousands of different peripherals.

I am NOT a fanboy I use ALL THREE OSes and they ALL have advantages. I could argue for and against ALL THREE. The big problem with threads of this nature is people bring up single cases and using them as a reason why an entire brand is no good. Apples fault level is VERY low but some tier 1 Windows suppliers have similar returns levels. At the moment DELL's business range (which has been mentioned earlier in the thread) has a similar level to Apple's

These threads serve little purpose other than people who like one OS slagging off the other. I tend not to get involved but sometimes I just have to say something.
 
Jamesbuk said:
Just to add to my post, can any mac user clearly define HOW a Mac is more user friendly than a Windows?

For example - how will a Mac help me edit a picture in photoshop that the Windows wont do?
How will a mac help me write a document in word or write emails all day?

User Friendliness cant just be defined by having big buttons, because my PC can do that and doesn't cost nearly as much ;)
Im off now but I look forward to the replies..!

James
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I can take this one. Most of the intuitivity is in the os. Photoshop will run on a mac as it does in windows but it's the way the os handles it that is different.

I open my photo in ps on my laptop and I want to use the scrolbars to move up and down. On windows I have to move my cursor the entire length of the window to switch between the up and down scroll button. On a mac they are right next to each other, my cursor moves less than a cm to scroll up and down. This is an example of how it is easier to use. Especially important on a touch pad.

Other examples, I'm creating a movie in iMovie and I want to add pictures and music. My iTunes and my iphoto library are right inside iMovie in their own browser. I can access them without ever leaving the iMovie interface

I have many examples like this. I used windows for 17 years and mac for 3 so I know what I'm talking about
 
joescrivens said:
It's like this.

Apple make both the hardware and software. As a result the know exactly how their software is going to work on a computer. The hardware and the software speak to each other. Windows is made to work on any machine, they have no controlwith how the software is going to perform.

The operating system is more efficient, slimmer, easier to use than windows. Everything about the OS is what you are paying for and why they are more expensive.

A good example of why mac is inherantly better than windows is ask yourself- have you ever met anyone who was a mac user convert to using windows? Now ask yourself how many have done the switch the other way round. I think you know the answer and the reasons above scratch the surface of why.
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Yet to do anything classed as reasonably advanced you have to use the terminal... Whereas windows just has an advanced options in their OS...;)

I gave up using Linux because so much had to be done through a terminal, with windows how often do you need to go into the command prompt?:p

Also there are a few people in this thread that say they have gone back/bought windows machines since they had a mac, let alone other threads of this nature.

Please crawl back into your hole and stop shouting your fanboy nonsence...:wave:;)
 
whiteflyer said:
Always makes me laugh when somebody comes up with a figure like that

So Ford are better than Aston Martin (ford sell more)
Susan Boyle was the Best album of 2009 (biggest selling last year)
X Factor is he best show on TV (most watched )


And your comparing operating system there, not the actual computers as Microsoft don't sell computers, they sell software (x Box excluded) so to compare you need sales figures for

Apple
Dell
Sony
HP
and so on.
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In which case

http://247wallst.com/2010/01/14/hp-rules-dell-thumped-in-q4-us-pc-sales/

HP (Unknown)
Dell - 22%
Acer - 11%
Apple - 7%

According to that link for the last quarter in the US.
 
I know macs are supposed to be expensive, but for my laptop question on page 5
parsley said:
Can anyone recommend a pc laptop with a full speed (ie not CULV etc.) dual-core processor, 2kg or less, battery life 5 hours or more, digital video out? I'm seriously thinking of buying a macbook pro and running windows via bootcamp, rather than a dell e6400 (heavier?), toshiba models (heavier or short battery life), etc.
We're only allowed Dell, Samsung, Toshiba, Sony and Apple here... :(
Thanks!
Click to expand...

as far as I can see Apple make the best value hardware :eek: :eek:
Happy to be wrong here - can anyone suggest an alternative?
 
Having used both extensively (PC's 12 years Mac 2 years), every day for work, I would express a preference for Mac ... and several years ago I never thought I would ever say that.
 
Amp34 said:
Please crawl back into your hole and stop shouting your fanboy nonsence...:wave:;)
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It always strikes me as odd that the people posting most vociferously in defence of PCs call others fanboys. Now pack it in with the personal comments (and that applies to everyone) or I will lock this thread.
 
fabs said:
It always strikes me as odd that the people posting most vociferously in defence of PCs call others fanboys. Now pack it in with the personal comments (and that applies to everyone) or I will lock this thread.
Click to expand...

At least let it run to Numero 7 :D
 
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