Kirk L Bracket compatibility with Arca Swiss P0 Ballhead

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GIZTO29

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Philip
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Currently I have a Kirk L Bracket and am about to buy an Arca Swiss P0 Ball head. However being unsure about which connecting section to get I spoke to Robert White & Teamwork Photo about compatibility. I knew that the new Slide Fix Quick Release wouldnt fit as it uses a much smaller plate than the standard Arca plate type but have been told by Robert White that only the Quickset Classic will fit. I really wanted the Quickset fliplock but they say it wont fit. I honestly cant see any difference other than the classic has a screw knob and the Flip lock is as described. The Kirk is an Arca type fit for the record and its stated on the product description on BHPhoto it is for the Arca-Type Quick Release System.
Teamwork have emailed Arca to get an answer but in the meantime can anyone shed some light on this?

Regards

Phil





View attachment 10335 View attachment 10335
 
Phil,

I'd have thought you'd be ok with the Fliplock if they are identical. I don't use Kirk, just RRS and Wimberley clamps which are Arca type & I use RRS L brackets

Looking at the ad you've posted I see there's an asterisk by the clamp descriptions which states it fits classic and a un-decipherable one but I agree with you and they do look identical size wise.

I'd go ahead and get them. Worse case scenario is you send them back for an exchange if wrong but I doubt it
 
The Classic knob type is the most versatile and requires no adjustment for third party manufacturers plates etc.
So 801214 is the correct cat number for a P0 with classic QR.
Enjoy,
Rod
 
You can fit any A-S type clamp to a P0 (exceptionally good head BTW :)).

Personally, I don't like flip-lock clamps and I'm not the only one, though obviously a lot of people do. I would just say, unless you've used one, don't assume that they're automatically better.

Have a look at Sunwayfoto clamps from CameraGearUK. V nice quality, including circular ones that fit the P0 perfectly, eg here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNWAYFOT..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item4d1bbf54be
 
BMD said:
Phil,

I'd have thought you'd be ok with the Fliplock if they are identical. I don't use Kirk, just RRS and Wimberley clamps which are Arca type & I use RRS L brackets

Looking at the ad you've posted I see there's an asterisk by the clamp descriptions which states it fits classic and a un-decipherable one but I agree with you and they do look identical size wise.

I'd go ahead and get them. Worse case scenario is you send them back for an exchange if wrong but I doubt it
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input Bruce :)


RKlukas said:
The Classic knob type is the most versatile and requires no adjustment for third party manufacturers plates etc.
So 801214 is the correct cat number for a P0 with classic QR.
Enjoy,
Rod
Click to expand...

Thats great Rod, i've been talking to Teamwork today and have come to that conclusion also :)


HoppyUK said:
You can fit any A-S type clamp to a P0 (exceptionally good head BTW :)).

Personally, I don't like flip-lock clamps and I'm not the only one, though obviously a lot of people do. I would just say, unless you've used one, don't assume that they're automatically better.

Have a look at Sunwayfoto clamps from CameraGearUK. V nice quality, including circular ones that fit the P0 perfectly, eg here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNWAYFOT..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item4d1bbf54be
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for that Hoppy, i will check out the Sunwayfoto stuff, I have noticed it before when looking at panoramic gear.

Phil
 
Well guys, I just received the P0 and Quick Release Classic today and im very happy with the ball head. One niggle is that the pins in the plate holder don t reach far enough to stop the Kirk Bracket sliding out should I accidentally loosen the dial. My 3LT Airhead works in that way so cant fall. I suppose this is the price to pay when you merge brands. Very happy with it overall though!

Phil
 
GIZTO29 said:
Well guys, I just received the P0 and Quick Release Classic today and im very happy with the ball head. One niggle is that the pins in the plate holder don t reach far enough to stop the Kirk Bracket sliding out should I accidentally loosen the dial. My 3LT Airhead works in that way so cant fall. I suppose this is the price to pay when you merge brands. Very happy with it overall though!

Phil
Click to expand...

Until you loosen the dial and it all falls out;)

Joking aside, can you get longer retaining pins?
 
BMD said:
Until you loosen the dial and it all falls out;)

Joking aside, can you get longer retaining pins?
Click to expand...

Thats what im worried about! I have done that accidentally on my 3LT ballhead but obviously the pins saved the day! :/
What is the lower section for, the newer AS plate?
 
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GIZTO29 said:
Thats what im worried about! I have done that accidentally on my 3LT ballhead but obviously the pins saved the day! :/
What is the lower section for, the newer AS plate?
Click to expand...

Can't help you there as mine is the RRS Head. Can you post an image?
 
GIZTO29 said:
Thats what im worried about! I have done that accidentally on my 3LT ballhead but obviously the pins saved the day! :/
What is the lower section for, the newer AS plate?
Click to expand...

From your description, sounds like it. Surprised at that though, maybe there are longer replacement pins available?
 
BMD said:
Can't help you there as mine is the RRS Head. Can you post an image?
Click to expand...
Hi Bruce, here it is on Robert White... My Kirk only fits in the top section. I presume the lower jaws are for the thinner new Arca plate.
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/shop-by-brand/arca-swiss/arca-swiss-p0-with-quickset-classic.html

HoppyUK said:
From your description, sounds like it. Surprised at that though, maybe there are longer replacement pins available?
Click to expand...

I'll get onto Teamwork about it. That said all of the Sunwayfoto ones etc have no pins at all.

Phil
 
GIZTO29 said:
Hi Bruce, here it is on Robert White... My Kirk only fits in the top section. I presume the lower jaws are for the thinner new Arca plate.
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/shop-by-brand/arca-swiss/arca-swiss-p0-with-quickset-classic.html



I'll get onto Teamwork about it. That said all of the Sunwayfoto ones etc have no pins at all.

Phil
Click to expand...

I think your right on the lower jaws although Arca like most head manufacturers do make them so that other plates, not just their own can be used. Wouldn't be surprised if Kirk do a thinner one. I'm glad I got the RSS. V. expensive but no issues using various plate sizes. Good luck re: pins
 
GIZTO29 said:
Hi Bruce, here it is on Robert White... My Kirk only fits in the top section. I presume the lower jaws are for the thinner new Arca plate.
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/shop-by-brand/arca-swiss/arca-swiss-p0-with-quickset-classic.html



I'll get onto Teamwork about it. That said all of the Sunwayfoto ones etc have no pins at all.

Phil
Click to expand...

This is confusing. Question: which Kirk L-bracket do you have exactly, and does it have two studs underneath that sit about 2mm proud of the bottom? They're actually tiny little Allen-headed bolts, and they are the lock-stops that should line up with the pins in the clamp to stop the camera sliding out. You'll see them on just avbout every AS-type plate, however, many L-brackets actually don't have any studs (mine doesn't) and that means you ain't got no lock-stops, regardless. End of story.

Other brands of clamp don't have those extended pins because they don't cater for the smaller design of AS plate. But they all have U-shaped cutaways either side of the central bolt that allows the stud to slide left-right as far as possible.
 
BMD said:
I think your right on the lower jaws although Arca like most head manufacturers do make them so that other plates, not just their own can be used. Wouldn't be surprised if Kirk do a thinner one. I'm glad I got the RSS. V. expensive but no issues using various plate sizes. Good luck re: pins
Click to expand...
What confuses me is when I went for Classic I presumed that it meant the original bigger plate and I also thought the smaller plate was new. In that case why has the classic got 2 size clamps?

HoppyUK said:
This is confusing. Question: which Kirk L-bracket do you have exactly, and does it have two studs underneath that sit about 2mm proud of the bottom? They're actually tiny little Allen-headed bolts, and they are the lock-stops that should line up with the pins in the clamp to stop the camera sliding out. You'll see them on just avbout every AS-type plate, however, many L-brackets actually don't have any studs (mine doesn't) and that means you ain't got no lock-stops, regardless. End of story.

Other brands of clamp don't have those extended pins because they don't cater for the smaller design of AS plate. But they all have U-shaped cutaways either side of the central bolt that allows the stud to slide left-right as far as possible.
Click to expand...

Its the BL-5D3 Hoppy. It has no studs atall.

http://www.kirkphoto.com/L-Bracket_for_Canon_5D_Mark_3.html#

Just looking.. there is something about quick release plates & safety pins on their page... i'm confused now haha

http://www.kirkphoto.com/Quick-Release-Camera-Plates.html

Just to confirm the Kirk L bracket does have the ability to stop on pins as it works perfectly well on my 3 Legged Thing Airhead ballhead.
 
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mickledore said:
Errrr, my Sunway most certainly have pins. I have two brackets one an L type and one plain one. Both have pins that do a good job.
Click to expand...

Ah, ive looked at a few on Ebay from cguk and couldnt see pins on their clamps...
 
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GIZTO29 said:
What confuses me is when I went for Classic I presumed that it meant the original bigger plate and I also thought the smaller plate was new. In that case why has the classic got 2 size clamps?



Its the BL-5D3 Hoppy. It has no studs atall.

http://www.kirkphoto.com/L-Bracket_for_Canon_5D_Mark_3.html#

Just looking.. there is something about quick release plates & safety pins on their page... i'm confused now haha

http://www.kirkphoto.com/Quick-Release-Camera-Plates.html

Just to confirm the Kirk L bracket does have the ability to stop on pins as it works perfectly well on my 3 Legged Thing Airhead ballhead.
Click to expand...

Okay, I think it makes sense now. The lock-stop pins on your AS clamp don't work because your Kirk L-bracket doesn't have any lock-stop studs for them to butt up against (like many L-brackets). And it won't work with any other 'standard' type of AS clamp either.

The lock-stop works on the 3LT head because that uses a different safety catch mechanism with a little spring-loaded pin that pops up inside the bottom of the L-bracket.

If you want lock-stops when using the L-bracket, then the best way is to get another clamp with something similar to the 3LT system. Maybe 3LT could supply a spare clamp, though it won't fit straight on to the Arca Swiss P0 head. It would need a bit of DIY, or a friendly local machine shop to tap a 3/8 BSW thread into it (if possible). Or, something like one of these Acratech clamps https://www.acratech.net/quick-release-clamps/ would fit straight on and they have a similar type of spring-loaded lock-stop built in. No guarantees though, as it depends on the underside design of the L-bracket. Off the top of my head, Vanguard is another brand that uses the AS-type dovetail clamp with yet another design of spring-loaded lock-stop.

Or, get a L-bracket with lock-stop studs on it. On the other hand, you could just leave it as it is and be careful - as most people do.

Anyway, I hope you're a bit clearer on what the problem is :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Okay, I think it makes sense now. The lock-stop pins on your AS clamp don't work because your Kirk L-bracket doesn't have any lock-stop studs for them to butt up against (like many L-brackets). And it won't work with any other 'standard' type of AS clamp either.

The lock-stop works on the 3LT head because that uses a different safety catch mechanism with a little spring-loaded pin that pops up inside the bottom of the L-bracket.

If you want lock-stops when using the L-bracket, then the best way is to get another clamp with something similar to the 3LT system. Maybe 3LT could supply a spare clamp, though it won't fit straight on to the Arca Swiss P0 head. It would need a bit of DIY, or a friendly local machine shop to tap a 3/8 BSW thread into it (if possible). Or, something like one of these Acratech clamps https://www.acratech.net/quick-release-clamps/ would fit straight on and they have a similar type of spring-loaded lock-stop built in. No guarantees though, as it depends on the underside design of the L-bracket. Off the top of my head, Vanguard is another brand that uses the AS-type dovetail clamp with yet another design of spring-loaded lock-stop.

Or, get a L-bracket with lock-stop studs on it. On the other hand, you could just leave it as it is and be careful - as most people do.

Anyway, I hope you're a bit clearer on what the problem is :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing this up Hoppy, if only there was one perfect system! It makes no sense that the KirK L Bracket has no pins as their own Quick Release Clamps are designed to work with the pins from their own camera plates
http://www.kirkphoto.com/Universal-Quick-Release-Clamps.html

Ideally the Sunfoto one that is round like my P0 wouldve been ideal if it had the same design as the 3LT one. I'll just have to stick with what I have and be careful as i'll be selling the 3LT tripod and head.

Thanks again :)

Phil
 
mickledore said:
Just a random sample from their e-bay page. This quite clearly states pins are included and there is a photo showing them.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNWAYFOT...ate-Full-Arca-Compatible-Sunway-/251437456519
Click to expand...

A plate is no use to me Mickledore, ive got a Kirk L Bracket. Sorry for the confusion, what I meant was the Quick Release Clamps dont have a pin. Before Hoppy explained stuff I had never seen this style where the studs are on the plate. With my 3 Legged Thing clamp there is a spring loaded pin that stops the plate from sliding out so when I looked at the Sunfoto ones they dont have it, they have 2 notches.
I would need one like this for example...

http://www.acratech.net/leveling-quick-release-clamp-with-detent-pin/
 
GIZTO29 said:
Thanks for clearing this up Hoppy, if only there was one perfect system! It makes no sense that the KirK L Bracket has no pins as their own Quick Release Clamps are designed to work with the pins from their own camera plates
http://www.kirkphoto.com/Universal-Quick-Release-Clamps.html

Ideally the Sunfoto one that is round like my P0 wouldve been ideal if it had the same design as the 3LT one. I'll just have to stick with what I have and be careful as i'll be selling the 3LT tripod and head.

Thanks again :)

Phil
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, but unfortunately there is no specified standard for these things. The Arca Swiss system is the closest we've got, but then other manufacturers tweak it with their own proprietary mods and we are where we are.

FWIW, I like the standard Arca Swiss system as it stands, with it's simple lock-stop studs thing, and in practise I don't actually want lock-stops on my L-bracket. I like the way the flat base of the bracket sits flat when you put the camera down on a table for example, and as L-brackets are quite long the chances of the camera actually slipping out are reduced. And as it happens, I have a longish AS plate with studs on my 7D and I've removed them!
 
HoppyUK said:
I know what you mean, but unfortunately there is no specified standard for these things. The Arca Swiss system is the closest we've got, but then other manufacturers tweak it with their own proprietary mods and we are where we are.

FWIW, I like the standard Arca Swiss system as it stands, with it's simple lock-stop studs thing, and in practise I don't actually want lock-stops on my L-bracket. I like the way the flat base of the bracket sits flat when you put the camera down on a table for example, and as L-brackets are quite long the chances of the camera actually slipping out are reduced. And as it happens, I have a longish AS plate with studs on my 7D and I've removed them!
Click to expand...

Fair comment mate, as I mentioned earlier in the thread I have been known to nearly loosen the clamp knob by mistake BUT now my P0 doesnt have one so it should be impossible. Im going to NYC in August so will pop in to B&H and have a look at the Acratech clamp I linked in the last post as it has the same detent pins as my 3LT clamp. I havnt even been out with the camera since buying the new tripod and BH :[ Thanks for all of the great replies, much appreciated :)

Phil
 
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