Landscapes & Filters

[HoppyUK]

Apologies for sounding dense - but how come I can't just buy a 77mm ND grad, polariser etc and use that?

Because grads are square, so you can slide them up and down to position the grad line.

If you want a screw-in grad, there are very few about. B+W makes one, but very mild. Or you could do what I do (I'm not a big grad fan) and buy a P-system grad and 77mm adapter ring, and just glue them together.

It limits your composition options, because you can't slide it, but are ways around that, within reason, ie zoom back so you can position the grad line as you want, then crop to the composition in post. Not ideal, but it works and TBH unless you have a strong hard grad, positioning is usually not absolutely critical and somewhere around the middle usually works okay.

Bear in mind that the strength of the grad varies with focal length quite a lot (they do nothing on telephotos) and also with aperture - higher f/numbers make the grad line stronger.

I seeeeee. But everything other type that isn't grad, just get a normal 77cm circular?

The problem there is you can't then use the grad and polariser together. Well, you can in theory screw one into the other, but in practise it's a right PITA and you'll probably get vignetting with a wide-angle.

That's why you've got to choose the system first. If you want to use grads properly, get a square system, and a polariser to slot in to that. Do you also want to use a 10-stopper? That's another problem with slot-ins...

 

[WillNicholls]

Because grads are square, so you can slide them up and down to position the grad line.

If you want a screw-in grad, there are very few about. B+W makes one, but very mild. Or you could do what I do (I'm not a big grad fan) and buy a P-system grad and 77mm adapter ring, and just glue them together.

It limits your composition options, because you can't slide it, but are ways around that, within reason, ie zoom back so you can position the grad line as you want, then crop to the composition in post. Not ideal, but it works and TBH unless you have a strong hard grad, positioning is usually not absolutely critical and somewhere around the middle usually works okay.

Bear in mind that the strength of the grad varies with focal length quite a lot (they do nothing on telephotos) and also with aperture - higher f/numbers make the grad line stronger.

The problem there is you can't then use the grad and polariser together. Well, you can in theory screw one into the other, but in practise it's a right PITA and you'll probably get vignetting with a wide-angle.

Thanks. Very helpful.

What does p-system mean?

I think this square filter deal sounds good. How much does a setup like this cost? Polariser and ND grad.


Edit/ you say you're not a fan of grads - why? How do you do shots when the sky is bright then?

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks. Very helpful.

What does p-system mean?

I think this square filter deal sounds good. How much does a setup like this cost? Polariser and ND grad.

Square P-systems cost from not very much (Kood, SRB etc) to loads for a decent Lee kit.

Also see my second edit above.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks. Very helpful.

What does p-system mean?

I think this square filter deal sounds good. How much does a setup like this cost? Polariser and ND grad.


Edit/ you say you're not a fan of grads - why? How do you do shots when the sky is bright then?

Erm, post #37. Do keep up Will

I can't deny that using grads is rather more satisfying, seeing the result there and then, but most of the time (like 99%) you can get a better result by blending exposures - basic HDR.

Main problem with grads is everything above the line gets darkened - buildings, trees, mountains etc, and IMHO that looks really naff.

 

[John Mc]

Erm, post #37. Do keep up Will

I can't deny that using grads is rather more satisfying, seeing the result there and then, but most of the time (like 99%) you can get a better result by blending exposures - basic HDR.

Main problem with grads is everything above the line gets darkened - buildings, trees, mountains etc, and IMHO that looks really naff.

If you're using a Nd grad on the horizon with a mountain in the picture, what do you expect? The filter doesn't always have to sit on the horizon, I've only just began to use P filters and I know this. Plus you can use a soft grad, whilst it will still darken the area slightly, it gives you more control in post to edit the exposure. Alternatively this is where I would blend two exposures. Only if it was absolutely necessary however, Like in a cityscape.

 

[horrocks]

Forgive me, I have been reading this thread with interest in the context of the original question, but I feel the need to know one thing; what is 'meh'?

 

[hollis_f]

Forgive me, I have been reading this thread with interest in the context of the original question, but I feel the need to know one thing; what is 'meh'?

From the Urban Dictionary -LINK

"The verbal equivalent of a shrug of the shoulders."

 

[jerry12953]

Apologies for sounding dense - but how come I can't just buy a 77mm ND grad, polariser etc and use that?

What I do is to use screw-in polarisers ( a lot) and a screw in 8stop ND filter(occasionally).

With the ND grads I hand hold one over the end of the lens when required - which is quite often. Others may laugh ......... but it works perfectly fine. Saves a lot of hassle fiddling around with bits and bobs.

Hoppy has explained why a screw-in grad (short for "graduated" ND filter) is no use. It restricts you to using the grad "line" in the centre of the image. However he then confuses matters by explaining how you can make a home-made one! Unless I misunderstand him.......

 

[AchimT]

Be wary of relying on this, if the dynamic range really is too much even for a raw file (which will give you more latitude for recovery than jpeg, but not an infinite amount) then you'll end up with pure white skies.
I'd go for a 3 stop grad, and a CPL (they're all much of a muchness in terms of how much light they reduce, usually 1.5-2 stops).

You are right, there are limits. Usually my images (I shoot RAW exclusively) even have the colour information (I chose my cameras specifically for high DR), it is the halo effect which limits me in PP in Lightroom.

I've ordered a B&W AUC Kaesemann CPL with MRC-coating, but I've still not purchased an ND grad as I hesitate to carry and use the fixture for the square systems. Would you say that a circular ND grad would still be better than no ND grad? I know, I should try it for myself, but the good ones seem to cost another £100.-, so I'd like to get some advice first.

Thanks for all the advice and thanks to Will for letting me ask these questions in his thread.

 

[jerry12953]

..............not purchased an ND grad as I hesitate to carry and use the fixture for the square systems. Would you say that a circular ND grad would still be better than no ND grad? I know, I should try it for myself, but the good ones seem to cost another £100.-, so I'd like to get some advice first.

Thanks for all the advice and thanks to Will for letting me ask these questions in his thread.

A screw-in grad is pretty useless in my opinion. It's very rarely that you want the grad "line" in the centre of the image. Rule of thirds and all that?

It really is possible to use grads without the adaptor rings etc. that the manufacturers will try and sell you. Try a 2 stop hard grad and if find you really get on with it, you can then expand the system to include other strengths and even a holder (if you must.....)

 

[AchimT]

Hmm, I wonder what my wife is going to say. Maybe I should try it Thanks for the advice !

 

[HoppyUK]

A screw-in grad is pretty useless in my opinion. It's very rarely that you want the grad "line" in the centre of the image. Rule of thirds and all that?

It really is possible to use grads without the adaptor rings etc. that the manufacturers will try and sell you. Try a 2 stop hard grad and if find you really get on with it, you can then expand the system to include other strengths and even a holder (if you must.....)

Yes, just holding the filter in front of the lens is another option - saves money and also you don't have to carry a holder, some of which are quite bulky. But not easy to do unless the camera is on a tripod.

Another idea is the get a screw-in adapter ring and instead of permanently gluing the filter to it (as I mentioned above) use a couple of blobs of BluTack. Easy to reposition the grad line that way.

I've also heard of some photographers that BluTack the filter directly to the front of the lens. Store the blobs inside the lens cap