Laptop advice.

[neil_g]

With respect Neil, your experiences outlined above are not the norm.
You're talking about a corporate set up, where your colleagues don't give a toss about the hardware since they didn't pay for it.
Most users tend to be a lot more careful and less blaisé about how they handle theirs, which was paid for out of their own pocket.

As Phil's not made any reference to mishandling by his wife on her current Mac, your point is misplaced in the context of this thread, and only serves to demonstrate that you can't be objective, since at no point did anyone here convey that MacBooks were tolerant of abuse or being handled by complete klutzes.

my point was that the dells have outlasted the apple machines despite any mishandling.

much better value for money in the robustness stakes

edit - also the amount of dented/scratched/generally battered alu mac cases on personal machines ive seen ive been lead to believe that they're incredibly vulnerable to that sort of damage. which would effect resale/long term value.

 

[Phil Young]

Are you looking for a laptop too?
I thought it was Phil's missus?

My point, which I'm quite sure you understood, was like for like comparison when shopping.
Given MagSafe won't be found PC laptops, nor a machined aluminium body, then maybe now it's becoming a tad clearer not all laptops are the same, even if they both have an i5 Sandybridge and 8GB DDR3 RAM, etc, etc!
Some things just cost more because they cost more to produce - but when you truly analyse the price of a comparative Dell/HP (Apple's true competitors, not Rock or other such bit part companies) then you will see there's not a whole lot of difference.
Factor in the residual value, and your beloved non-Apple branded PC is more expensive to own, even though you paid less at the outset for it!

You're obviously an avid apple customer...
Can you please go and re-read my OP and try and understand the question that she and I are looking at options. If she decides to pay over the odds for a mac that's her business but she can't really first the specs that are needed for her intended use.

If you have anything relevant to say I'd love to hear it but please stop trying to sell apple products and leave the fanboy stuff out.

 

[PJ S]

Neil, I understood your point no problem, but you tried to convey it was a residual value based point, when in fact it is a robustness one.
You know, as well as I do, that those laptops your company has bought (directly or reimbursed employees' choice) have their full value written off against tax liability.
Therefore, unlike the individual consumer, there is not value to them, for the company to worry itself over.

In the context of this thread, we are presuming Phil's missus will treat the laptop properly (accidents withstanding), and in 3-4 years time when she may feel it's time for a replacement, will be able to realise the remaining value of the MacBook.

If you're not already aware, there's an app (and desktop version) called MacTracker.
It's a historic log of Macs through the ages, with their specs and so forth, as well as retail price at the time.
Use that and compare the prices various aged Macs sell for on eBay - you may just finally come to understand where I've been coming from throughout this thread, and why I've mentioned it repeatedly for Phil to take on board before deciding which path to tread.

 

[arad85]

edit - also the amount of dented/scratched/generally battered alu mac cases on personal machines ive seen ive been lead to believe that they're incredibly vulnerable to that sort of damage. which would effect resale/long term value.

I have a brushed Alu Dell. Yes, it has a dent on it that a plastic one wouldn't.....

 

[Dale_tem]

I have a brushed Alu Dell. Yes, it has a dent on it that a plastic one wouldn't.....

Mine has slightly more than a dent

 

[PJ S]

You're obviously an avid apple customer...
Can you please go and re-read my OP and try and understand the question that she and I are looking at options. If she decides to pay over the odds for a mac that's her business but she can't really first the specs that are needed for her intended use.

If you have anything relevant to say I'd love to hear it but please stop trying to sell apple products and leave the fanboy stuff out.

No, I just an Apple iMac owner - nothing more.
I don't need to re-read anything, I only put forth a link to a sale that may've been of interest, if the seller still hasn't it sold.
I have tried to explain that your perception of "expensive" and "over the odds" are fallacious.
There's no fanboy stuff going on here - just sound reasoning. If you can't comprehend that, then there's something wrong with your cognitive process.

And again, I'm not selling a MacBook Pro, that's another member entirely! :bang:

 

[Phil Young]

No, I just an Apple iMac owner.
I don't need to re-read anything, I only put forth a link to a sale that may've been of interest, if the seller still hasn't it sold.
I have tried to explain your perception of "expensive" and "over the odds" are fallacious.

There's no fanboy stuff going on here - just sound reasoning. If you can't comprehend that, then there's something wrong with your cognitive skills.
And again, I'm not selling a MacBook Pro, that's another member entirely! :bang:

I'll take your insults but please stop now. We are looking for options to make a decision, not someone to sell a product based on their own needs / preferences.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Except you don't have a 512GB SSD in that one.. The 512GB rMBP costs £2280... Got to laugh when people tell you that box x has better features, then fail to mention that box y has better features in some areas...

To me both 256 or 512 are too small on their own. An external drive would need to come in regardless. SSD for OS is important though
That sadly doesn't answer question about substandard screens on these win-laptops. It is not a number, but a very important spec

Also if you throw around your laptop (mac or otherwise) perhaps you need to buy a shell or just a cheap basic throw away kit. My macs certainly get treated with respect they deserve.

 

[arad85]

To me both 256 or 512 are too small on their own. An external drive would need to come in regardless. SSD for OS is important though
That sadly doesn't answer question about substandard screens on these win-laptops. It is not a number, but a very important spec

A 15" screen is too small to properly edit on FULL STOP. You need an external monitor anyway, so whether it is a TN screen is moot.

My macs certainly get treated with respect they deserve.

They need to be - you're trying to preserve every last ounce of residual value....

 

[srichards]

Oddly enough Apple are invariably at the top of lists for reliability and least number of breakdowns even though my experience of their last laptop was shocking.

The cheap samsung and acer chromebooks look good for portability if you don't want to do much in the way of intense applications. They're £230 and up. £300 for one with 3g and wifi.

I replaced my macbook with an ipad. It does most of what I want to do to be honest and the battery life is immense compared to a laptop (12-14 hours active use usually)

 

[PJ S]

I'll take your insults but please stop now. We are looking for options to make a decision, not someone to sell a product based on their own needs / preferences.

You asked for suggestions on a laptop, with a budget of (preferably under) £1000, and reveal the wife is a current Mac user - which part of that have I got wrong?

By the way, you've yet to reveal your wife's needs and preferences!
Thus far, all I can see is it's up for debate which OS and hardware she should opt for, which I've tried to give you food for thought.

If a MacBook is out of the question, then simply buy a Dell from their outlet website to save a few quid. Next to Apple, Dell rank 2nd for customer satisfaction and reliability, iirc.
Sonys look quite nice too, but I've no idea where they are for CS and reliability.

 

[Phil Young]

You asked for suggestions on a laptop, with a budget of (preferably under) £1000, and reveal the wife is a current Mac user - which part of that have I got wrong?

By the way, you've yet to reveal your wife's needs and preferences!
Thus far, all I can see is it's up for debate which OS and hardware she should opt for, which I've tried to give you food for thought.

If a MacBook is out of the question, then simply buy a Dell from their outlet website to save a few quid. Next to Apple, Dell rank 2nd for customer satisfaction and reliability, iirc.
Sonys look quite nice too, but I've no idea where they are for CS and reliability.

And a great suggestion it was, if she were in the country to buy right now and didn't mind buying second hand.

As it stands, she's neither of the above.

She has her heart set on a MacBook but I've told her for what she needs it for (Photoshop, HD video editing as mentioned in OP), The specs of a new one at £1000 aren't up to par for her needs. Just because it's apple branded doesn't change that.

Anyway, to clear up a mess, she'll be buying new I know she doesn't want to buy used.

 

[Milkfloat]

There was me thinking that Phil was headed for a falling out with his wife for 'forcing' her onto a Windows platform when her heart was set on Apple, it turns out the forum members are the ones falling out. I should have realised that this forum is the same as all others and the topics of Religion, Politics and Operating Systems should never be started.

 

[Phil Young]

There was me thinking that Phil was headed for a falling out with his wife for 'forcing' her onto a Windows platform when her heart was set on Apple, it turns out the forum members are the ones falling out. I should have realised that this forum is the same as all others and the topics of Religion, Politics and Operating Systems should never be started.

I don't see why it's not straight forward though!?

She wants what she can't afford so what are her options? I don't get why it's been made so difficult.

 

[PJ S]

And a great suggestion it was, if she were in the country to buy right now and didn't mind buying second hand.

As it stands, she's neither of the above.

She has her heart set on a MacBook but I've told her for what she needs it for (Photoshop, HD video editing as mentioned in OP), The specs of a new one at £1000 aren't up to par for her needs. Just because it's apple branded doesn't change that.

Anyway, to clear up a mess, she'll be buying new I know she doesn't want to buy used.

Second hand makes little to no difference, except price paid. She has the remainder of the warranty, and can add AppleCare for the 2 subsequent years, at the end of the 12th month.
It doesn't need to be taken out at the time of purchase.

That aside, how doesn't a new MacBook work for her needs?
PS on OS X is now 64-bit, and HD editing can be achieved with Premiere or Apple's own Final Cut, which she may be familiar with already.
iMovie also does HD, which is included - so no additional expense on software.

If you watch the video in the link I put up a number of posts back, in relation to Thunderbolt, you might understand why I facetiously raised it, in reply to another member's post.
Obviously there is a cost implication if she needs the throughput speed Tb can provide, but if she needs it, then she needs it.

 

[Dale_tem]

That aside, how doesn't a new MacBook work for her needs?

A new one at £1000 does not have the spec she needs, is what he wrote. He did not write a new macbook does not meet her needs.

Reply to the whole sentence, don't pick out part.

 

[Phil Young]

A new one at £1000 does not have the spec she needs, is what he wrote. He did not write a new macbook does not meet her needs.

Reply to the whole sentence, don't pick out part.

 

[PJ S]

A new one at £1000 does not have the spec she needs, is what he wrote. He did not write a new macbook does not meet her needs.

Reply to the whole sentence, don't pick out part.

I wasn't picking out a part, it was a touch of laziness on my behalf - that's all.
The meaning would've been understood given the context in which it's placed - a £1000 MacBook.
Are we really going to start going off on stupid little tangents like this, every 5 minutes?
Come on, get real - stop trying to make a non-point at all costs.


Phil, I don't know how much you're into video editing software, but watch the video(s) to see if the software is the decider, rather than the name on the outer case - http://www.apple.com/uk/finalcutpro/

 

[neil_g]

Neil, I understood your point no problem, but you tried to convey it was a residual value based point, when in fact it is a robustness one.

if its got a facking great dent in it, its worth less

Oddly enough Apple are invariably at the top of lists for reliability and least number of breakdowns even though my experience of their last laptop was shocking.

on a breakdown front there isnt much difference between macbook pro and dell latitudes here. both are very good for non-user issue reliability.

 

[Dale_tem]

PJ, I wasn't picking at parts. You misinterpreted what he meant.

He meant for £1000 he couldn't get a Mac powerful for her needs.

You seem to have taken it as the software isn't there/not good enough. It is the performance to run the software he is concerned about at that price.

 

[PJ S]

if its got a facking great dent in it, its worth less

It's still worthless (with or without dents), as the company has reclaimed the full cost from HMRC for business equipment purchases.

On that note, I wonder if Phil is self employed?
If so, he can do likewise.

 

[Dale_tem]

It's still worthless (with or without dents), as the company has reclaimed the full cost from HMRC for business equipment purchases.

On that note, I wonder if Phil is self employed?
If so, he can do likewise.

Worthless to the taxman, but not worthless for resale value. Completely different.

 

[Phil Young]

PJ, I wasn't picking at parts. You misinterpreted what he meant.

He meant for £1000 he couldn't get a Mac powerful for her needs.

You seem to have taken it as the software isn't there/not good enough. It is the performance to run the software he is concerned about at that price.

Again...

 

[neil_g]

It's still worthless (with or without dents), as the company has reclaimed the full cost from HMRC for business equipment purchases.

whats the tax man go to do with anything?

im saying that if you went out and put a big scratch down the lid of your alu mbp it would be worth less.

 

[PJ S]

Worthless to the taxman, but not worthless for resale value. Completely different.

Not exactly, any residual value realised will need to be declared as taxable income derived from the sale of said equipment.
Anyway, it's a moot point unrelated to the context of this thread's premise.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

A 15" screen is too small to properly edit on FULL STOP. You need an external monitor anyway, so whether it is a TN screen is moot.

They need to be - you're trying to preserve every last ounce of residual value....

In general, 15" is too small for editing and I am not going to contest it. I run a 27" 8bit+ IPS display for that reason. But if I am on location and I need to quickly produce a reasonable image, I could easily adjust color and brightness, crop, etc. TN display would leave me guessing (not very successfully) from the histogram output
15" is also good for travelling, presenting work in a meeting, and so on.

Anyone sensible will try to preserve residual value of any belongings. Its common sense. And I very obviously hate working with broken, scruffy dented gear. What is the point buying something nice if you then wreck it? (btw I do not consider tripod or workhorse body "nice")

And they are not £2.5k, unless you insist on the most expensive option, for a fraction more speed

 

[srichards]

I have the base model imac which is the same 2.5ghz i5 as the MBP. I can edit HD video on that ok. Extra memory is only £80 for another 4 GB (uk prices) so I think the base model would actually be fine.

If the screen is too small the get a display port -> hdmi lead and plug it into an lcd tv.

Consensus is that a MBP with an i5 is ok.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1102510

I found adobe premiere a lot faster to use than FCP though.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

And a great suggestion it was, if she were in the country to buy right now and didn't mind buying second hand.

As it stands, she's neither of the above.

She has her heart set on a MacBook but I've told her for what she needs it for (Photoshop, HD video editing as mentioned in OP), The specs of a new one at £1000 aren't up to par for her needs. Just because it's apple branded doesn't change that.

Anyway, to clear up a mess, she'll be buying new I know she doesn't want to buy used.

Anyway, next time you are after new expensive nikon lens she will be right to point out that sigma or samyang make much cheaper alternatives, and on paper they all do the same thing. Fancy a new BMW?, well no a - Vauxhall also gets you from A to B. See, it can work both ways

 

[Dale_tem]

Anyway, next time you are after new expensive nikon lens she will be right to point out that sigma or samyang make much cheaper alternatives, and on paper they all do the same thing. Fancy a new BMW?, well no a - Vauxhall also gets you from A to B. See, it can work both ways

He would then be able to explain the benefit that he wants a Nikon over the Sigma etc......

He wants to know is he going to lose out, will the benefits of the Apple over a PC benefit him or not. If they won't then he won't get one.

Work out a lists of pros and cons and see how it falls. That is all he is doing. He is not doing based on a feeling or someone said x is better.

 

[PJ S]

whats the tax man go to do with anything?

im saying that if you went out and put a big scratch down the lid of your alu mbp it would be worth less.

I despair!
I wish the hell you'd stick to one argument, Neil.

You've been trying to use your corporate position to postulate how Macs aren't as robust as plastic Dells, which is completely out of context to my raising of the residual value of a private individual's computer, that has in all likelihood, been properly fussed over/looked after/taken care of due to having funded it themselves.
We're not interested in what your fellow colleagues do with their provided laptops, since they aren't going to be out of pocket when they b*ll***s it!
Phil's wife is not going to be throwing her laptop down a flight of stairs or using it to lean on while chiseling a bit of wood or some other DIY task.

And your earlier comment about the state of a 7 year old MacBook at the hands of these klutzes your company employs, was laughable at the desperation being utilised to demonstrate how a MacBook can be trashed.
I could show you a many a 10 year old G4 Titanium Powerbook that have acceptable wear and tear, but are nothing like the state of that 7 yo model you referred to.
All that demonstrates is nothing more than some people take better care of their possessions than others do.
The fact I'm even having to explain this to a grown man is utterly <words fail me>!

 

[Phil Young]

In general, 15" is too small for editing and I am not going to contest it. I run a 27" 8bit+ IPS display for that reason. But if I am on location and I need to quickly produce a reasonable image, I could easily adjust color and brightness, crop, etc. TN display would leave me guessing (not very successfully) from the histogram output
15" is also good for travelling, presenting work in a meeting, and so on.

Anyone sensible will try to preserve residual value of any belongings. Its common sense. And I very obviously hate working with broken, scruffy dented gear. What is the point buying something nice if you then wreck it? (btw I do not consider tripod or workhorse body "nice")

And they are not £2.5k, unless you insist on the most expensive option, for a fraction more speed

God knows how I've manged with my 15" screen for years lol...

It can be done but obviously bigger is better.

 

[Phil Young]

Anyway, next time you are after new expensive nikon lens she will be right to point out that sigma or samyang make much cheaper alternatives, and on paper they all do the same thing. Fancy a new BMW?, well no a - Vauxhall also gets you from A to B. See, it can work both ways

Stop being silly.

Look at my camera bag. I have a tokina 12-24 because in my tests it is as good as the Nikon version.

If I wanted a 105mm and someone suggested a 85mm that would not suit my needs. Here is no different.

 

[PJ S]

PJ, I wasn't picking at parts. You misinterpreted what he meant.

He meant for £1000 he couldn't get a Mac powerful for her needs.

You seem to have taken it as the software isn't there/not good enough. It is the performance to run the software he is concerned about at that price.

I pointed Phil in the direction of a possibly unsold MBP for not much over his budget, which if still available, he could maybe negotiate down a bit more.
Brand new for all intent purposes.

As a last post on this thread now, I'll leave Phil with this contemplation, but I'm guessing the timeframe won't be fitting.

http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/national-deal/ask-direct/19565682?nlp=&CID=UK_CRM_1_0_0_86&a=1664


You might also want to check out the Asus line of Notebooks, but I'll be buggered if I can see at an easy glance which models are 13" and which have at least the Full HD resolution you're after.

 

[neil_g]

I despair!
I wish the hell you'd stick to one argument, Neil.

You've been trying to use your corporate position to postulate how Macs aren't as robust as plastic Dells, which is completely out of context to my raising of the residual value of a private individual's computer, that has in all likelihood, been properly fussed over/looked after/taken care of due to having funded it themselves.

im using my experience of the hardware to say how easily they can be devalued by damage. ive never once started talking about corporate values vs personal values. thats all you.

We're not interested in what your fellow colleagues do with their provided laptops, since they aren't going to be out of pocket when they b*ll***s it!
Phil's wife is not going to be throwing her laptop down a flight of stairs or using it to lean on while chiseling a bit of wood or some other DIY task.

again youre twisting peoples comments. its not hard to scratch a laptop.

And your earlier comment about the state of a 7 year old MacBook at the hands of these klutzes your company employs, was laughable at the desperation being utilised to demonstrate how a MacBook can be trashed.

you said macs had high residual value over a long period of time compared to a windows machine. i said not so. oh and that was a personal machine by the way.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

im using my experience of the hardware to say how easily they can be devalued by damage. ive never once started talking about corporate values vs personal values. thats all you.



again youre twisting peoples comments. its not hard to scratch a laptop.



you said macs had high residual value over a long period of time compared to a windows machine. i said not so. oh and that was a personal machine by the way.

EVERYTHING is easily devalued by damage. It is the definition of it :rules:


Try shopping for a 13" MBP (2010-2011) and prepare to be surprised. You could buy new for not a lot more. Btw, I do not think of them very highly...

 

[LCPete]

I would go with what gramps suggested and have a look at Dell
I,ve got two dell laptops quite old now but in perfect working order and have been completely reliable
I think that resale value in computer stuff is not worth talking about as its out of date in 3 years anyway

 

[connersz]

This question always pops up at some point or another in every forum I have ever used.

My own suggestion would be to forget all the blah blah about build quality and that rubbish because you could probably get 3 x laptop's for the same price as a macbook pro, so if your laptop breaks (which is rare these days anyway) buy a new one, if it doesnt then be happy with the amount of money you saved.

I have even heard some fanboy try to justify the hefty price by detailing the incredible packaging that a mac comes in which amazed me.

If you want something a bit more constructive, the answer to this question will solve your dilema: do you want to use Mac OS or Windows OS?

I am a graphic designer and a web developer and would love to try using a mac in the future but I have no problems with PC's so simply can't justify the price, whether all designers have macs or not.

 

[Phil Young]

I would go with what gramps suggested and have a look at Dell
I,ve got two dell laptops quite old now but in perfect working order and have been completely reliable
I think that resale value in computer stuff is not worth talking about as its out of date in 3 years anyway

Yeah I don't know where selling on in the future has come from... bit of a silly and pointless debate if you ask me...