Laptop's

[CW90]

Looking for a bit of help and advice.

Been looking in to getting a new laptop for a while now, but don't know what to get at all :|

Have been looking into getting a 13" mac book air/pro, but don't know if its worth the money for what I'll use it for. And worried at spending all that money on something that I might not get along with, have used windows all my life. Anyone ever had the problem moving from one to the other?

What I need from a laptop is fast, will handle running photoshop, lightroom, web etc at the same time(just started getting into photography as a hobby and want to start doing movies as well) other then that will just be general use like on the web etc. And something that's not going to need replacing every other year.

Don't really have a budget. Just want the best value for money and will run everything I want without crashing like mine does just now

Cheers

 

[Mr. Fish]

MBP all the way! never ever looked back, and would never go back to a windows machine. lots of people think they are complex but when you get to use them, youll realise they are actually quite simple. Any one of the current range mbp will run LR / PS fine . ive got an early 2011 2.4 ghz i5 dual-core and just put 8gb of ram in it (only 40 quid from crucial and well worth it)..awesome machine now! not that it wasnt before.

 

[downs523]

Looking also to upgrade, but undecided between a mac book pro of an iMac. The imac's are a lot cheaper though and have a nice 21.5 inch screen. Who has an iMac

 

[vrapan]

Right I am a full on Mac user so I might be subjective here but for what it is a macbook air/pro 13" are not bad laptops for what you get.

If you look for a similarly specced sized windows based laptop you will come with very similar if not higher prices. No SSD i5 based laptop comes cheap in the wintel world so I would not consider price as a differentiator at that level.

Getting on with one is very subjective though. Most people I know that have used a Mac they find them easier/more intuitive (though not all have converted) but I do have a couple of friends that swear blind they can't get along with OS X and they are people that can afford them easier. Best thing to do get yourself to a JL/Apple store and play about with one. The ones in Apple stores are loaded with software for you to play and nobody will tell you to get off one even if you hog one for a while.

There are some decent alternatives to the Air in the wintel world with advantages to upgradability but falling short in one or more of the following price,weight, battery life or speed. You can however if you hunt down find some well priced ones on offers which is not the case for Apple products. Also Apple has the refurbished store where you can get some modest discounts on the latest versions of the products and some decent discounts on last generation ones.

If you do decide to go for a Mac for your use I'd go for an MBP, my main reservation with the current MBAs is that the memory is a non upgradable 4GB. Today that is almost passable for photo processing but a couple years down the line chances are it will not be.

If you really would like an MBA there are rumours of it getting an upgrade around May which I assume will raise the maximum to 8GB.

One more reason to consider a mac is the VERY cheap and very capable alternative to lightroom: Aperture. In its current form is a bit behind in features but in my opinion ahead in usability and it is 1/3 of Lightroom's price. You can try it and may like it.

Good luck whatever you do, for whatever is worth I am currently using a mid 2009 13.3" Pro but waiting for the rumoured Airs as I'd like the portability but I like the 8GB in my current Macbook

 

[DoctorBob]

lots of people think they are complex but when you get to use them, youll realise they are actually quite simple.

I thought the problem with macs is they're too simple?
I haven't used a mac so can't comment on usability vs windows - but a mac is not a cheap option and is unlikely to offer best value for money, unless general build quality is important to you as a Windows machine with similar build quality will have a similar price, although it's possible to get similar specs in a lower-quality laptop at 2/3rds or half the cost in a Windows machine.

 

[downs523]

All apple products look great but they are expensive but you get what you pay for. I have aniphone and an iPad 2. Been looking at the iMacs and MacBook pro but the macbookpro is quite a lot more expensive and I don't understand why???

 

[Dale_tem]

If you want a nice laptop, look at the dell xps range. I just got the thin 15" model and love it (xps 15z).

You will not gain any benefit going to a MAC for photoshop. Users who use PhotoShop on both will tell you this.

I would use a MAC if you can before you dive in.

 

[vrapan]

Look around and try to find a laptop around 13" that does not weight a tone and has an SSD and an i5 in it that is any more than 10% cheaper than a MBP/MBA. The only one I have found so far is a heavily discounted and discontinued Lenovo U260 which has sold out in a day from PCWorld at 600£ (against the £1000 of a very similarly equipped MBP).

 

[Dale_tem]

The dell xps 14z comes in at £849, but no ssd. That comes in the i7 model at £1150. But that is a more powerful laptop and the same size as a mbp

 

[arad85]

Makes a change to see Mac vs PC in the equipment forum.

My view on a laptop for editing is the following:

• If you have good eyesight, get the highest resolution screen you can. Screen real estate is important when you have 10+Mpixel images.
• Get as much memory as you can - personally, I wouldn't buy a laptop today I couldn't put 8Gbytes in
• Photoshop/Lightroom can use as many cores as you can throw at the problem. A second gen i7 is almost 2x as good as a second gen i5 given the same clock speed. This is even more so if you want to encode video.
• Disk speed is important but don't hamper yourself with a small SSD if you want to store thousands of raw images on it. It just won't cut it over time.
• Win 7 has pretty much levelled the playing field WRT the OS.
• If you want a Mac, buy one, but don't kid yourself it is somehow special. It is essentially a PC under the bonnet and will run LR/PS at the same speed as an equivalent Mac.

 

[DoctorBob]

Look around and try to find a laptop around 13" that does not weight a tone and has an SSD and an i5 in it that is any more than 10% cheaper than a MBP/MBA. The only one I have found so far is a heavily discounted and discontinued Lenovo U260 which has sold out in a day from PCWorld at 600£ (against the £1000 of a very similarly equipped MBP).

Funny you should ask (although you're really quite specific). There's one on the Dell Outlet at the moment (here) that weighs less than 2kg, has an i5 and is definitely less than a MBP/Air. You'll need to put in an SSD yourself as they're simply uncommon as standard on mid-range PCs but even if you blow £250 on a 256GB one, you're still a good £200 off the MBP example you gave.

It's a Dell Outlet model which means technically it's refurbished - in practice it means new and unmarked, because if it's marked it is listed as 'scratch and dent' with ++discount, and you get 12 months' warranty.

 

[vrapan]

If you go Refurb Apple does theirs with a 10-15% off on current gen models too so the price difference is not there.

 

[Chappers]

If you are going for a Mac ( good choice) bypass the Air. It really is designed for on the move Office style computing. So if you are using word processors or spreadsheets it's great,but for Photo use its the MBP all the way. The reason is the Graphics card. The MPB has a much more powerful graphics card on board.

I've looked at the Air to replace by 3 year old MBP due to it's lightness and longer battery life, but I've been advised twice now, by two separate Apple stores that for Photographic work the Air really isn't suitable.

 

[arad85]

but I've been advised twice now, by two separate Apple stores that for Photographic work the Air really isn't suitable.

I think this is Apple staff not knowing what is required....

For Photoshop, the hardware requirements are shown here: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html and the tested video cards for CS5 are here: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/831/cpsid_83117.html

Given the MBA use the internal HD 3000 which IS tested by Apple, you should be fine. Photoshop only uses the graphics card for the 2D image manipulations (zooming/rotating etc) and almost any current graphics card will be fine for that.

 

[CW90]

Cheers for all the comment.

Didn't want this to turn into a mac vs window thread

Leaning over to going mac to be honest. Had 2-3 laptops in the my house and all have had problems within the first year, hardware and/or software. But to be fair they haven't been the best spec, top of the range laptops so might of had something to do with it... Other thing is, is the second hand value of them they hold their value really well as well. When the time comes to get a new one...

If I was going mac, would anyone recommend going for a desktop or laptop, been looking at the specs etc and looks like I could get a better deal/spec if I go for a iMac.

Still no further forward deciding what to get though

 

[downs523]

CW90 I am in the same situation deciding to get a iMac or MacBook pro. MBP is a lot more expensive so I'm swinging towards the iMac..... But is a new one due out soon? On the macrumours website they say don't buy as a new version is due soon. What do you think?

 

[vrapan]

CW90 I am in the same situation deciding to get a iMac or MacBook pro. MBPS is a lot more expensive so I'm swinging towards the iMac..... But is a new one due out soon? On the macrumours website they say don't buy as a new version is due soon. What do *** think?

Depends on what you mean by soon... March-May time frame as that is the release schedule of new Intel CPUs.

 

[DoctorBob]

If you go Refurb Apple does theirs with a 10-15% off on current gen models too so the price difference is not there.

Can you provide a link to a MBP kitted up with SSD etc for £1000? From their website it looks like the base 13" MBP is £1000, and that comes with no SSD and 4GB RAM. So once you take into account the £160 to upgrade the RAM to the 8GB in the laptop I used as an example (547.75 inc VAT), it is over double the cost for an equivalent spec. They'll need to knock off a lot more than 10-15% to make the prices comparable.

Dell laptop specs since it's hard to link to:

Inspiron N411z
Processor: Intel Core i5-2430M (2.40 GHz with Turbo Boost up to 3.00 GHz)
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium
8 GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz (2 DIMMs)
Hard Drive : 500GB Serial ATA (5400RPM)
8X DVD+/-RW Drive
Display: 14 inch High Definition (1366x768) WLED Display with TrueLife
English Genuine Windows 7 SP1 Home Premium (64Bit OS)
English Genuine Windows 7 SP1 Home Premium (64Bit OS)
Wireless: Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1030 (1x2 b/g/n+ Bluetooth Combo Card)
LCD Back Cover : Espresso Black

 

[Mr. Fish]

8gb of ram for MBP's is 40quid from crucial atm!

 

[DoctorBob]

8gb of ram for MBP's is 40quid from crucial atm!

Sure thing, the price I quoted was the horrifically overpriced upgrade price from Apple when speccing up the MBP

 

[cowasaki]

Just a few observations.....

The MBA WAS much slower than the other machines but since the last update the MBA has jumped massively in speed. There is now much less of a speed jump from say an 11" i5 4Gb MBA and the equivalent MBP. (My new MBA 11" 4Gb 128Gb i5 arrives tomorrow to join my 17" MBP and Mac Pro)

I use all three main OSes (MacOS, Windows and Linux) and as has been said Windows 7 has brought Windows much closer to MacOS in terms of reliability etc.

Not everyone will get on with MacOS but from experience more people switch to Macs and stay than go the other way.

The best thing to do is go into an Apple store and have a quick play. Most people take just a few minutes to get used to the changes but you might not like it.

In actual use programs that you use will be no quicker on either system (the Mac is basically the same as a Windows computer - the difference is that MacOS is designed to only install on Apple hardware [yes I know you can get round that])

The "Macs are more expensive" argument has serious flaws now. The Windows builders complain to Intel that they cannot actually compete with the MBA! So if you are looking for an 11" ultra portable with an SSD you can't really beat it in the Windows world. Also the MBP range compare quite well with QUALITY models from decent manufacturers. Yes you can save money initially going to Windows but the total cost of ownership of a Mac can be less. (under £30 for an OS upgrade, higher resale value later). The 27" iMac is quite good value too when you look for an equivalent monitor to the one included then add the rest of the equipment. The Mac Pro is rather lacking value wise and you can absolutely stuff them in terms of speed for far less money with a Windows machine BUT you don't buy a MacPRO for value and they ARE quick really.

If you want something VERY cheap then it has to be Windows all the way. You will not get a MacOS machine for £400 ready to go BUT having used these cheap Windows machines they are usually rather lacking.

MacOS is designed to be easy and simple for the end user. With Lion on a computer with an internet connection you can turn it on holding the ALT button down, select the repair partition, select re-install and leave it. The computer will re-install itself with the latest version of Lion over the internet etc OR turn a Mac on holding T down and it becomes an external hard drive - These little things make a big difference.

I do miss the ability to just go an grab a new video card etc and just stick it in or replace a motherboard/processor and ram for basically a new computer.

There is virtually no issue with malware on MacOS but there isn't with Windows if you install decent security software.

Buy RAM and Hard drive upgrades from Crucial/Scan etc if possible for the Mac and upgrades are silly prices.



Horses for courses.

 

[Amp34]

Vrapan is pretty much spot on in his summary. The Air is certainly competitive in its market when compared to similar windows machines (Asus UX31, Lenovo and to an extent the sony Z). All are similar in price and most similar performance. The exception being the Sony Z which can be significantly more powerful (with 8+GB of RAM rather than the standard 4GB of the others) however with a starting price of £1400-2000 for a base-moderate spec and up to £4k for a top end model well...

Don't worry about whether you will get on with OSX, if you don't like it then just wipe it and stick Windows on it... OSX kinda reminds me of a cross between Win 95 and modern versions of Linux, not that it's bad (or better), just different in certain ways. Don't be hooked into the "OSX is the best thing since sliced bread" that a number of people who join the "cult of Jobs" appear to do, just realise it is what it is... A machine to do work on...

I was in a similar situation to you a few weeks ago and after mulling up the options went for an Air because (beside a few other reasons) it was cheaper than the VAIO, because it had international warranty and the Asus seems to have a bit hit and mis build quality wise (I was buying internationally so this was an issue, couldn't really take it back!). It pretty nice as an every day machine and it's portability is much greater than the MBP (which I didn't like the styling of anyway.

So yeah, other options for an something similar to the Air include the Asus UX31, Acer and Toshiba Untrabooks, the Sony Z, the Lenovo X1 and the Samsung series 9 amongst others. Options if you want more RAM include the Dell 14z, the Sony SA and not much else really, there are a distinct lack of powerful 13" machines around at the moment!

EDIT: Oh! and one more thing (pun not intended!)... Resolution... There is a distinct lack of higher resolution panels in the 13" machines. If you want something higher than 1280x800 then that cuts your options down a lot, throw out the MBP, Acer, Samsung and I think Lenovo and you are left with the MBA, Sony, Asus and possibly the Dell 14z.

 

[cowasaki]

Well I'm typing this on a new 11" Macbook Air i5 4Gb 128Gb that I got today. Having tried CS5 and lightroom on it I think that the speed is absolutely fine. There is a faster processor option in an i7 but I wasn't willing to pay the extra as this is really just a machine to carry about, use for tethering etc rather than a main machine.

The thunderbolt port could be quite useful though giving 2560x1440 or whatever it is on a bracingly good 27" display together with Gb networking, firewire etc etc.

 

[dellydel]

Hi,

I just bought a Dell 17" XPS, instead of £1450 its reduced to £899 on the Dell website, I then used a 10% voucher code and free delivery code to get it for about £750, plus it came with adobe elements 9 + premiere.

i7 processor, 1tb hard drive, 6gb ram, 3gb graphics card, nice big 17" screen etc. Very happy with it apart from getting used to Windows 7 and the free McAfee antivirus need to go!

 

[cowasaki]

Hi,

I just bought a Dell 17" XPS, instead of £1450 its reduced to £899 on the Dell website, I then used a 10% voucher code and free delivery code to get it for about £750, plus it came with adobe elements 9 + premiere.

i7 processor, 1tb hard drive, 6gb ram, 3gb graphics card, nice big 17" screen etc. Very happy with it apart from getting used to Windows 7 and the free McAfee antivirus need to go!

I couldn't do without the 17" laptop to be honest but there are times when it is just too big. At least this one doesn't compromise performance.

 

[Amp34]

If you are going for a Mac ( good choice) bypass the Air. It really is designed for on the move Office style computing. So if you are using word processors or spreadsheets it's great,but for Photo use its the MBP all the way. The reason is the Graphics card. The MPB has a much more powerful graphics card on board.

I've looked at the Air to replace by 3 year old MBP due to it's lightness and longer battery life, but I've been advised twice now, by two separate Apple stores that for Photographic work the Air really isn't suitable.

I don't think that is correct at all. The only thing reasonably lacking on the MBA is the 4GB RAM limit but having played with half a dozen or so RAWs and photo merge in Photoshop even 4GB is fine for that. Maybe not particularly future proof unfortunately but that is the bigger issue over the GFX...

Just a few observations.....

The MBA WAS much slower than the other machines but since the last update the MBA has jumped massively in speed. There is now much less of a speed jump from say an 11" i5 4Gb MBA and the equivalent MBP. (My new MBA 11" 4Gb 128Gb i5 arrives tomorrow to join my 17" MBP and Mac Pro)

Exactly. It used to be a wheezing wreck but the latest update really has made a big difference.

Have a look about halfway down this review for the actual numbers http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/25/macbook-air-review-mid-2011/ but the MBA is actually more powerful than the other ultra books when running windows (and oddly more powerful than the 15" MBP...) and plenty powerful enough for general photo work. I wouldn't necessarily have any 13" laptop as my main machine however... A desktop always trumps for that.

 

[Amp34]

Well I'm typing this on a new 11" Macbook Air i5 4Gb 128Gb that I got today. Having tried CS5 and lightroom on it I think that the speed is absolutely fine. There is a faster processor option in an i7 but I wasn't willing to pay the extra as this is really just a machine to carry about, use for tethering etc rather than a main machine.

The thunderbolt port could be quite useful though giving 2560x1440 or whatever it is on a bracingly good 27" display together with Gb networking, firewire etc etc.

The joys of having a trip to N. America... the upgrade to the i7 was only £60... Even with VAT it would be significantly cheaper than UK prices (having said that Sony really do take the ****, I would have saved about a third on the price of the z, £1800 machine here for £1200 equivalent there! But no international warranty...).

Oh and a question for the mac users... when viewing photos in finder, you click on them to preview them, yet there appears to be no way of using the arrow keys to go to the next image, the only way you can do that is import them into iPhoto... Am I missing something as that seems to be a big missing feature (almost as big as the pesky + button and maximise cerfuffle...).?

 

[cowasaki]

The joys of having a trip to N. America... the upgrade to the i7 was only £60... Even with VAT it would be significantly cheaper than UK prices (having said that Sony really do take the ****, I would have saved about a third on the price of the z, £1800 machine here for £1200 equivalent there! But no international warranty...).

Oh and a question for the mac users... when viewing photos in finder, you click on them to preview them, yet there appears to be no way of using the arrow keys to go to the next image, the only way you can do that is import them into iPhoto... Am I missing something as that seems to be a big missing feature (almost as big as the pesky + button and maximise cerfuffle...).?

The £999 model + applecare works out at £756 for me !

Oh and I got a £54 App Store voucher free !!! double

 

[Amp34]

Worryingly student prices are still more expensive than the US/CA rate. Just shows how much more we get charged here, and it's not even entirely due to VAT...

 

[cowasaki]

Worryingly student prices are still more expensive than the US/CA rate. Just shows how much more we get charged here, and it's not even entirely due to VAT...

US Price for the £999 one is $1199 plus $249 for Applecare so $1449...... The standard UK university student price for the above is £907.20 so I think that that works out cheaper...... It's certainly not far out.

 

[CW90]

Cheers for all the help. Went into the apple store yesterday and had a play about. The MBA is a lot nice then the pro when it comes to general looks and the screen etc. But the only thing that's putting me off getting an air is the lack of disc drive, because I make my own CD's/mix tapes as well. But it's not so much of a problem, got 2 windows desktops in the house and I'll be keeping my old laptop anyway...

Other thing is, is that in the store the 13'' screen looks tiny in the store :| and wondering if there would be any issues for me moving from my 15'' screen down to a 13'' but suppose it's not really that big a difference

To much stuff to think about :bang:

 

[cowasaki]

The 13" has the same resolution as a 15" so it will not make much difference.

My MBP is a 17" with 1920x1200 resolution i.e. 24" monitor res and it is just as useable as a real 24"

You can buy a 5.25" external USB box off ebay for £10 and stick a £15 18x DVD writer in there or buy a laptop sized external DVD. You could get an external blu-ray writer for less than a £100

 

[cyclamens]

I run an Acer Netbook for work with XP and a tiny screen (too small for me to use anything but work software).

I use a three year old Acer 17" laptop with 2 GB RAM with Vista, Lightroom 2 and CS3. The only real issue with it is CS3 dosen't have the 5DMkII RAW codes so converting files to Tiff makes it choke a bit at 100+megs an image.
I also use it for Office applications.

My 18 month old, 21.5 inch screen, dual core 3.05 with 8megs of RAM iMac blitzes Aperture and Elements 9. No way will I run Windows on this machine!

Which do I prefer? Horses for courses but the iMac would be my machine of choice every time

 

[Mr. Fish]

Oh and a question for the mac users... when viewing photos in finder, you click on them to preview them, yet there appears to be no way of using the arrow keys to go to the next image, the only way you can do that is import them into iPhoto... Am I missing something as that seems to be a big missing feature (almost as big as the pesky + button and maximise cerfuffle...).?

Finder - List View - Highlight File - Spacebar (Opens Preview) - Then you can just use the down key to go through em

 

[cowasaki]

.... OR select the images you want or hold down [CMD] and press [A] to select them all then right click and select PREVIEW.

Preview will fire up with all the images in a side pane and you can move through them or perform actions on multiple images...


.... OR select cover flow and drag the file list smaller giving the cover flow most of the window. You can now flick through them using the arrow keys.....


You could also read my top tips thread which is now on 392 <HERE>

 

[cowasaki]

(almost as big as the pesky + button and maximise cerfuffle...).?

we have the two arrows in the top right corner that takes that application full screen whilst preserving other running applications in their own screen. The + only maximises the application full height.

 

[Amp34]

Finder - List View - Highlight File - Spacebar (Opens Preview) - Then you can just use the down key to go through em

.... OR select the images you want or hold down [CMD] and press [A] to select them all then right click and select PREVIEW.

Preview will fire up with all the images in a side pane and you can move through them or perform actions on multiple images...


.... OR select cover flow and drag the file list smaller giving the cover flow most of the window. You can now flick through them using the arrow keys.....


You could also read my top tips thread which is now on 392 <HERE>

Thanks, that has kinda sorted one of my major productivity issues... Why you can't just click one file then arrow to the next like windows I don't know... Why add the extra step?

we have the two arrows in the top right corner that takes that application full screen whilst preserving other running applications in their own screen. The + only maximises the application full height.

The maximise feature covers up the time and battery indicator etc. and is only available on a few programs. It's another backwards step from windows IMO. I can sort of see why the + feature is useful but there still needs to be a button in every window that allows you to maximise without covering the clock, rather than having to drag the window all the time.

 

[cowasaki]

Thanks, that has kinda sorted one of my major productivity issues... Why you can't just click one file then arrow to the next like windows I don't know... Why add the extra step?



The maximise feature covers up the time and battery indicator etc. and is only available on a few programs. It's another backwards step from windows IMO. I can sort of see why the + feature is useful but there still needs to be a button in every window that allows you to maximise without covering the clock, rather than having to drag the window all the time.

One of my top tips shows how to make the + work the same as maximise on Windows

The full screen thing is quite good for some stuff. I have mail full screen on a screen next to the desktop. In order to check mail I simply swipe the trackpad with three fingers and do the same in the other direction to get it back.

The extra step bit is because PREVIEW is a program and by double clicking it you are only passing it one file. Sometimes I will select a date range of images or just the processed ones etc. The cover view does what you want.

 

[Amp34]

Could you tell me which tip... I had a look through all of them before replying but couldn't see it.:bonk:

I had looked on another forum about that issue as well and the answers always were along the lines of "it resizes to the size it should be" or something equally as ridiculous.

I do quite like the maximise feature, especially as it gives you another desktop, sometimes it can be annoying though, even more annoying when a program doesn't have it.

 

[cowasaki]

Could you tell me which tip... I had a look through all of them before replying but couldn't see it.:bonk:

I had looked on another forum about that issue as well and the answers always were along the lines of "it resizes to the size it should be" or something equally as ridiculous.

I do quite like the maximise feature, especially as it gives you another desktop, sometimes it can be annoying though, even more annoying when a program doesn't have it.

I'll email you the freeware that does it later. If I don't then just PM me a reminder.