Learning the zone system - anyone using it?

welly

welly

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Hey guys,

I've just got my grubby paws on a video - Perfect Exposure for Digital Photography - as I've been getting a bit miffed at just stabbing in the dark for my exposure or having to bracket everything. Must say, this video is a cracker. I'm still learning (obviously) but this has got me on the right path I believe.

Does anyone here put the zone system into practice? It seems totally logical, doesn't add much additional time onto taking the shot - in fact, slowing myself down by metering using the zone system I believe will help me take better shots. Went out today to put what I've been learning into practice and I'm quite pleased with the results.

Here's a few examples I shot today. Just like to point out I was concerned more about exposure than the subject :)

20090206141810dl6.jpg


20090206142711od7.jpg


Second shot is possibly a touch dark and the snow is a little bit too grey but it was my first session putting this zone system into practice and I'm still trying to get an eye for tones.

Anyway. Zone system. Discuss!

Oh, both straight off the camera colour wise, second was cropped slightly but aside from that, they've just been shrunk down in size. I think I've caught the tones pretty well!
 
From reading (briefly) about it, it strikes me that it's a scientific way of explaining what a lot of photographers do instinctively.

It takes a while, but it's almost possible to see a scene and guess what the right values would be - I try it sometimes when I'm not under time pressurs and am usually right to within a stop or so ;)

Should I get out more?

Cheers,
James
 
onform said:
watching with bated breath!!! http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=111221:popcorn:
Click to expand...

Oh how about that then. Ok, I'll tell you what I understand of the zone system!

There's something like 7 zones (some people use more, some less) but the example I was given - 7 zones.

Zone 2 is pure black, zone 8 is pure white. Zone 5 is middle grey - your "average" colour. Don't ask me what happened to zone 1.

A medium red or blue or green - standard blue jeans, normal green grass is zone 5. A tarmac is probably around zone 2, maybe zone 3 if it's on a bright day. (edit: I got these the wrong way round)

When you're getting your exposure, use spot metering, manual mode and meter for that middle colour/zone 5 colour.. so fairly high up in the sky on a clear sunny day will probably be your zone 5 - centre your meter on this and essentially everything else should fall into place.

You can check your highlights by moving your metering point (right in the middle of the view finder) on darks and highlights and check that they fall into the correct zones. They should do and you should get a good exposure as a result.

There's a bit more to it than that, but not much. It's also about being selective on what your subject is, so if you're wanting to capture the detail of a black dog running about in the snow, your camera isn't going to be able to capture such a wide tone so you want to be metering more for the dog than the snow. Anyway, that's what I understand so far :)
 
It was a great way to assess correct exposure in the days before you could instantly see whether you got it right or not anyway

Not really needed now IMO

On a Shoot last year a mate of mine was zoning away on his landscape shot with a £500+ external spot meter (true Zone aficionados don't trust their camera's spot meter!), I stood near him, shot it on AV - chimped - dialled in a touch of Exp Comp - and when he'd finally finished he shot it at the same exposure as me :D

My verdict - waste of time

DD
 
Well, I'm going to persist with it! I'm really pleased with the results I've got today so I'm sold on this technique :)
 
welly said:
Well, I'm going to persist with it! I'm really pleased with the results I've got today so I'm sold on this technique :)
Click to expand...

If it works for you that's fine, but you should set your spot meter to its smallest angle of view to stand a better chance of getting it right

I'll stick with the easier way that works for me :)

DD
 
I like the way you think DD. There's way too much snobery about in this business where (mostly) old school people believe there is only one correct way to get a good picture and don't like to think we youngsters can get the same result by braking rules and spotting alternatives.

No matter how good a process is, there's always a better way to do it.
 
AndyB said:
I like the way you think DD.
Click to expand...


Steady m8 - that's twice this week you've agreed with me :eek:

:lol::lol::lol:

But yes, being from the old school myself I've done all this stuff years ago when there wasn't much option for anything easier and I couldn't afford aimless bracketing of film

Now, the DSLR technology means it's pretty much redundant, you can save minutes of time just with using the blinkies to assess blown highlights and take it from there

If it still has a use - it's in learning about exposure, so I'm guessing that as the OP gets the hang of exposure more, he'll drop the zone system at some point

But if it helps for now, just do it !!!

(as a certain shoe brand are fond of saying :D)

DD

PS - it doesn't work on snow either without adding in some compensation, that's why your second one is underexposed
 
I said #i like the way you think - not the same as agreeing! I do though.

And I'm not really a youngster either - just didn't get the same enjoyment from photography until digital. I hate to wait to see the results and all those chemicals and developement delays - pah!

I see myself as an artist (steady) and it's about using the technology and knowledge to get the result. How you get it isn't important as long as you enjoy getting it and people enjoy seeing it.

Next time I'll argue with you if it helps :)
 
The histogram on my D300 only shows on an image that has been shot, it's not a live histogram. Yes, I could take the shot, look at the histogram and see if the exposure is right and reshoot if it's not. Or I could get it right first time. I think that's a reasonable habit to get into, personally. :thumbs:
 
got to admit im a total fan of the zone system, works ok for me now that i understand it.
 
The histogram tell you when you got it wrong:lol:
 
Whatever metering method you use is still dependant on the area in the frame you use as reference. Live histogram is worth bugga all if you are composing with spot metering and an off-centre focal point - unles you lock and recomp of course
 
Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but you can't use the zone system properly on digital.

This is not a snob thing or an oldie filmy versus newy digitally thing it is a matter of how the zone system was designed to work.

The zone system was developed (pun intended) to work with the requirement that proper exposure went hand in hand with adjusted development to control the contrast and dynamic range. Thus you would take a reading of an area that you required to be a certain tone, and then by adjusting the development of the film (pulled or pushed) you would be able to place that tone where you required it to give you the result and contast range you require.

What you are actually talking about is using your meter correctly to expose the image for the tone you want, and as I found out recently, digital camera meters are not calibrated to 18% grey (zone 5) anyway, they are calibrated to 12% grey.

I hope this does not wee on anyone's parade, just my intention to inform, not upset.
 
that proper exposure went hand in hand with adjusted development to control the contrast and dynamic range. Thus you would take a reading of an area that you required to be a certain tone, and then by adjusting the development of the film (pulled or pushed) you would be able to place that tone where you required it to give you the result and contast range you require.

And you can't do that in digital via such as levels or curves because...

:shrug:

Oh - and I feel that my parade is still totally dry, so no offence taken :)

The 12% thing (sometimes referred to as 14% too) is not new, just relatively newly published. I read a whole longggggg article on it some time ago - bored the pants of me :lol:

Truth is, so long as you know how it works it doesn't really matter what any of it reads like, and the histogram/blinkies solves any exp issues anyway

DD
 
Edbray I understand the point you are making. But there is still value in understanding zones in terms of digital for some people. It just depends how people prefer to work.

And of course when the zone system was designed digital photography didn't exist so to say it wasn't designed for digital is very true. My old garden table wasn't designed with sledging in mind but you try telling my kids that when they turn it upside down :-)
 
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