Lee Filter Woes!

Phobic

Phobic

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Yes
I'm a simple kind of a guy, I know what I want and I don't think I'm asking for anything to unrealistic.

I would like to use an ND Grad Filter with a polariser and a lens hood for landscape photography and not have any vignetting!

My first stupid mistake was to try doing this on a full frame camera with a 24-105mm Lens. The only way to avoid vignetting on this lens at 24mm is to limit myself to a single filter slot and ditch the hood.

There is a 105mm ring adaptor which I assume will plug into the 105mm polariser (though I note that it's not wide angle), if I invest another £53 +p&p will this let me use the Hood as well on a 24mm lens on a FF body?

Has anyone else used this set up?

I have no problems with my 35mm prime but as a landscape tog I would like to buy the 24mm mark II prime, and use filters with it!

<rant mode>
This should have been an easy thing to do, not bloody likely without vignetting! I've spent slightly more than the national debt on Lee filter equipment at Warehouse and I still can't use these 3 together.

Lee Glass Circular 105mm Polariser £214.99
Lee Coral Graduated 4 Resin Filter Hard £40.99
Lee 0.9ND Soft Neutral Density Graduated Resin Filter £59.99
Lee 0.6ND Soft Neutral Density Graduated Resin Filter £56.99
Lee Wide Angle Adaptor Ring - 72mm £35.99
Lee Wide Angle Adaptor Ring - 77mm £38.99
Lee Lens Cap Pack of 3 £5.99
Lee Wide Angle Hood with Single Filter Slot £164.99
Lee 105mm Front Holder Ring £31.99
Lee Foundation Kit £52.99

Delivery: £4.99
Total: £708.89

£700 for VIGNETTING!
:bang: :bang: :bang:
</rant mode>

Help me obe1 you're my last hope :crying:

Phobic
 
It is very odd vignetting and is very much lens dependant as well as focal length.

My Sony 24-70 is really tight from a screw filter point of view, where as my Tamron (or should I say Minolta) 17-35 is much more forgiving.
Makes no sense since the 17-35 is obviously much wider, but the more you think about it the more it makes sense (it's down to lens design)

So, you might not have issues with the 24mm prime (or there again you might)

I haven't tried my 24-70 with the Lee's yet, but the 17-35 works down to 17mm (with 3 slots).
Mind you, I don't have a hood. I had avoided them as they do look like trouble (from a vignetting point of view)
 
£700 :eek:

You should be able to use two screw in filters, in slimline mounts, without vignetting, plus the Canon hood.

I don't find screw-in to be a huge problem with grads. A bit fiddly with two rotating filters on board, but no more so than messing with slot-ins.
 
Have avery similar setup on 5d.
Couple of questions, are you using the adapter directly on the lens
ie: no other filters skylight etc.
how much are you extending the hood ?
How many slots are you using in the holder ?
I ask just because it comes with three, you do not have to use them all.
I have three Lee filter holders and depending which lens I use decide whether the ones I have with one, two or three slots are the way to go.
Hope you resolve it.
C
 
springtide said:
So, you might not have issues with the 24mm prime (or there again you might)
Click to expand...

Thanks Springtide, right now though I don't even feel like buying one until I know I can use filters with it.

they are very hard to source right now, partly because they are new I guess.
 
HoppyUK said:
£700 :eek:

You should be able to use two screw in filters, in slimline mounts, without vignetting, plus the Canon hood.

I don't find screw-in to be a huge problem with grads. A bit fiddly with two rotating filters on board, but no more so than messing with slot-ins.
Click to expand...

I had a 77m screw in Polariser that I can't use with the LEE filter system because of Vignetting.

Not sure that I've seen a Grad screw in filter, am I missing something?
 
Ceejay said:
Have avery similar setup on 5d.
Couple of questions, are you using the adapter directly on the lens
ie: no other filters skylight etc.
how much are you extending the hood ?
How many slots are you using in the holder ?
I ask just because it comes with three, you do not have to use them all.
I have three Lee filter holders and depending which lens I use decide whether the ones I have with one, two or three slots are the way to go.
Hope you resolve it.
C
Click to expand...

Hi Ceejay, I will try Lee filters directly if I can't find anyone here who's made it work.

I am using the Lee filter system and nothing else, all directly connected to the lens, I've also tried all possible combinations to make this work.

I get Vignetting without extending the hood at all!

I have a slotless wide angle hood and have a single slot on the ring mount.

I tried 2 slots but there was no way that would work :crying:

Do you use a hood with your set up? what lens do you have?

Cheers
Phobic
 
Phobic said:
I had a 77m screw in Polariser that I can't use with the LEE filter system because of Vignetting.

Not sure that I've seen a Grad screw in filter, am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it work with the Lee two-slot wide-angle hood? I'd be surprised if things were really that tight on the 24-105L, it's not that wide.

Here's a screw-in grad, B+W two stops grey soft cut, but it's not slimline which might be crucial. And it's also uncoated acrylic, which most are, perhaps including Lee. http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=1013480

The best filters that I'm aware of, especially if you believe www.kenrockwell.com are Tiffen HT. Glass, multicoated, slimline mount, and apparenly truly neutral grey which some are not. I can't find them in the UK, but when funds allow I'm gonna get me one from B&H
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533253-REG/Tiffen_77HTCGND6_77mm_Digital_HT_High.html

HTH.
 
Just so you know, Lee recently damaged some of their molding equipment and had difficulty getting a replacement from their suppliers.
From what I can gather they recommenced manufacturer earlier this week, but no suppliers have any holders in stock yet. Some of the suppliers have waiting lists as long as your Warehouse Express invoice...
 
Phobic said:
I had a 77m screw in Polariser that I can't use with the LEE filter system because of Vignetting.

Hi
Not quite sure what you mean here.
The Lee polarising filter is 105mm in diameter and fits on the front of the holder on its own ring, not on the lens.I expect you already know the polariser always fits in front of any other filters.
The widest lens I have used is 17mm mostly with one slot and a Lee polariser,
you are using wide angle adapters on the lens I assume ? If you need more than one slot in filter Lee will make combination filter eg. N/D with warm up or
a colour.Last time I bought some delivery was not to long, cost about £90.
Which 24mm were you thinking of getting F1.4 or F2.8 not sure if it makes any difference anyway, but as has been mentioned previously its not that wide anyway.
C
Click to expand...
 
HoppyUK said:
Wouldn't it work with the Lee two-slot wide-angle hood? I'd be surprised if things were really that tight on the 24-105L, it's not that wide.
Click to expand...

The 2 slot wide angle does work fine with the 24-105L, but not with a polariser as well :crying:

HoppyUK said:
Here's a screw-in grad, B+W two stops grey soft cut, but it's not slimline which might be crucial. And it's also uncoated acrylic, which most are, perhaps including Lee. http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=1013480
Click to expand...

Ah yes this is what I meant by I've not seen one, you can't move the transition point in the frame on a circular ND grad filter to line it up with the horizon, that's very important for me and part of the reason why I use a slot system.

HoppyUK said:
The best filters that I'm aware of, especially if you believe www.kenrockwell.com are Tiffen HT. Glass, multicoated, slimline mount, and apparenly truly neutral grey which some are not. I can't find them in the UK, but when funds allow I'm gonna get me one from B&H
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533253-REG/Tiffen_77HTCGND6_77mm_Digital_HT_High.html

HTH.
Click to expand...

Thanks Hoppy, I'll take a look at them, I'll change system only as a last resort, too much time and money invested in Lee to give up right now!
 
Blapto said:
Just so you know, Lee recently damaged some of their molding equipment and had difficulty getting a replacement from their suppliers.
From what I can gather they recommenced manufacturer earlier this week, but no suppliers have any holders in stock yet. Some of the suppliers have waiting lists as long as your Warehouse Express invoice...
Click to expand...

That explains why I waited so long for my order to arrive, I only got the 105mm adapter and polariser this week and order it around a month or more ago.
 
Ceejay said:
Phobic said:
I had a 77m screw in Polariser that I can't use with the LEE filter system because of Vignetting.

Hi
Not quite sure what you mean here.
The Lee polarising filter is 105mm in diameter and fits on the front of the holder on its own ring, not on the lens.I expect you already know the polariser always fits in front of any other filters.
Click to expand...

I have both a 77mm Nikon screw in polariser that attaches to the lens and a 105mm Lee polariser to screw into the slot filter system

Ceejay said:
The widest lens I have used is 17mm mostly with one slot and a Lee polariser,
you are using wide angle adapters on the lens I assume ? If you need more than one slot in filter Lee will make combination filter eg. N/D with warm up or a colour.
Click to expand...

I don't have any issues using 2 filters even with a hood on the 24-105L, it's added either a 77mm or 105mm polariser that does it.

I think I'll post a photo!

Ceejay said:
Which 24mm were you thinking of getting F1.4 or F2.8 not sure if it makes any difference anyway, but as has been mentioned previously its not that wide anyway.
C
Click to expand...

Canon EF 24mm f1.4L II USM Lens

looks a great bit of glass
Click to expand...
 
Phobic said:
...Ah yes this is what I meant by I've not seen one, you can't move the transition point in the frame on a circular ND grad filter to line it up with the horizon, that's very important for me and part of the reason why I use a slot system.
Click to expand...

I take your point, and obviously you cannot physically slide up/down a screw-in grad, but I doen't have a problem with that in practise.

You can vary the height and strength of the grad with f/number, and high f/numbers effectively pull it down in the frame.

If that doesn't work, I sometimes compromise the composition in camera to get the grad where I want, then crop slightly in post. Not a perfect solution but I had a square system and hardly ever used it because of the endless faffing around.

But hey, you're seriously into Lee and that is pukka stuff. There must be a way around a bit of vignetting on that lens. Hope you get it sorted :)
 
I might be missing something obvious here, and am no expert, but why don't you just remove the hood when you want to go wide?

I can shoot full frame at 17mm with no vignetting using Lee holder with one slot, and 105mm polarizer on the front. At 24mm, I am pretty sure I can use all three slots plus the CPL.
 
Right after much trial and error and modification of the hood and filter holder I've concluded that this just isn't going to work.

I've reduced the vignetting to an absolute minimum but it's still there at 24mm, I think it's gone by 28mm but that just isn't good enough for when I buy the 24mm prime.

I have a way forward I hope!

I just got off the phone with Warehouse express who have been excellent! great customer service from Melvin, though very worrying that he said the number of orders you place with us makes it hard to figure out how to do a return :D

I'm going to send the 105mm polariser back and instead get a 100x100 circular polariser that can fit into one of the slots.

not an ideal solution but I think it should work, I'm going to test it now with 2 NDs!
 
Phobic said:
I'm going to send the 105mm polariser back and instead get a 100x100 circular polariser that can fit into one of the slots.
Click to expand...

How will you rotate the polarizer independently to the GND's?
 
68lbs said:
I might be missing something obvious here, and am no expert, but why don't you just remove the hood when you want to go wide?

I can shoot full frame at 17mm with no vignetting using Lee holder with one slot, and 105mm polarizer on the front. At 24mm, I am pretty sure I can use all three slots plus the CPL.
Click to expand...

Yes I could do this and have no vignetting but I'd then get problems with Flare.

and besides I resent paying £165 for a hood that I can only use without a polariser......
 
Phobic said:
Yes I could do this and have no vignetting but I'd then get problems with Flare.

and besides I resent paying £165 for a hood that I can only use without a polariser......
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of lens hoods, because of flare and also for protection, but I have to say that with grads especially, multi-coated or just coated filtes are better for this.

With a grad, almost by definition you are shooting into the light, maybe even the sun, and flare is going to be an issue that perhaps even the best hood can do nothing to help.

That is a big reason for me to get a multi-coated grad, like the Tiffen HT. Very few other grads are coated at all, and are acrylic which means they pick up tiny surface scratches easily when you clean them (hardly visible) and then they will flare like heck.

L lenses, and then and uncoated acrylic grads stuck in front of them... :(
 
HoppyUK said:
I'm a big fan of lens hoods, because of flare and also for protection, but I have to say that with grads especially, multi-coated or just coated filtes are better for this.

With a grad, almost by definition you are shooting into the light, maybe even the sun, and flare is going to be an issue that perhaps even the best hood can do nothing to help.

That is a big reason for me to get a multi-coated grad, like the Tiffen HT. Very few other grads are coated at all, and are acrylic which means they pick up tiny surface scratches easily when you clean them (hardly visible) and then they will flare like heck.

L lenses, and then and uncoated acrylic grads stuck in front of them... :(
Click to expand...

Yes I see where you are coming from and do agree, if only lee coated their system.

I think I'm back at square 1 here, no idea what to do.

The only thing I've not tried now is a 105mm adaptor ring attached onto the polariser on which I can connect the hood.

That feels like it's a non starter right away and is an expensive thing to try.

ponder.

maybe I'll wait and see if anyone else here has fixed this problem.
 
Phobic said:
I think I'm going to cry, I hadn't thought of that
Click to expand...

Answer is you upgrade your foundation kit to the professional kit, there's an upgrade path available so you don't have to rebuy everything. Due to the issues I mentioned earlier you're extremely unlikely to be able to find one in stock for the next week at least

The above may, err, cause vignetting... (y)
 
Blapto said:
Answer is you upgrade your foundation kit to the professional kit, there's an upgrade path available so you don't have to rebuy everything. Due to the issues I mentioned earlier you're extremely unlikely to be able to find one in stock for the next week at least

The above may, err, cause vignetting... (y)
Click to expand...

hmm that could just work :D

certainly worth a go!

thanks Blapto :love:
 
A couple of things to add to the mix...
first, try a Heliopan 105mm polariser - it's better suited to wide angles.
Second, rather than using a lens hood, you could just shade the lens with a grey card, or use something called a flarebuster. All you need to do is cast a shadow over the lens, and if the card/flarebuster is out of shot, then it will keep unwanted light from falling on the lens, causing flare.

My guess is that you would probably be fine with a prime lens, as the filter ring diameters are much smaller than with zooms.

As has been said previously, Lee are a fine company to do business with. I'm sure that if there is a resolution, then they will help you to find it.

Finally, how often do you really need to use more than say a single ND Grad and a polariser? A grad is just there to balance the exposure between the foreground and sky (usually)...

I wish you luck.

Cheers

Mark
 
kiasdad said:
A couple of things to add to the mix...
first, try a Heliopan 105mm polariser - it's better suited to wide angles.
Second, rather than using a lens hood, you could just shade the lens with a grey card, or use something called a flarebuster. All you need to do is cast a shadow over the lens, and if the card/flarebuster is out of shot, then it will keep unwanted light from falling on the lens, causing flare.

My guess is that you would probably be fine with a prime lens, as the filter ring diameters are much smaller than with zooms.

As has been said previously, Lee are a fine company to do business with. I'm sure that if there is a resolution, then they will help you to find it.

Finally, how often do you really need to use more than say a single ND Grad and a polariser? A grad is just there to balance the exposure between the foreground and sky (usually)...

I wish you luck.

Cheers

Mark
Click to expand...

Thanks Mark, quite a bit to look into, a different polariser is certainly an option, the problem is finding one with a very low profile.

A flarebuster is also another good tip though having spent the money on a lee hood ideally I'd like to use it.

re: your question on how often I use other filters, very rarely! the problem is I can't use a single filter with polariser and the hood, I get vignetting even here.

Unfortunately the 24mm prime takes a 77mm filter so I think there would be vignetting if I'm getting it on the 24-105L that also takes a 77mm filter :(
 
Blapto said:
Just a thought, what apertures are you shooting at?

Stopping down may reduce vignetting.
Click to expand...

Stopping down will increase mechanical vignetting, increased depth of field makes it sharper, as will a closer focusing distance.
 
So I've sent the 105mm round circular polariser back and have ordered the pro upgrade kit and a 100x100m square polariser.

let's hope that sorts things out.

I'll report back when the order comes in but it looks like another long wait as they don't have any square polarisers in stock!
 
Hi,
Haven't been on this thread for while, I would be interested to know how the Pro upgrade works out.
I understood it to be two holders attached together with a moveable ring so you could adjust the square polariser relative to a N/D grad.
Wouldn't this combination be rather thick ?
I have just checked some of my holders (varying no of slots) on my widest lens' equivalent to a 14mm on full frame from wide open down to f45 and can use a one slot holder and polariser together no problem.
Not knowng your lens could it be possible that being a zoom and physically longer than a prime that is causing your problem.
Maybe not !
Anyway, hope you can resolve this and hope you post conclusion here.
You could always phone LEE for assistance have always found them very helpful.
C
 
Folowing on if you don't have any luck with the dual holder maybe try B/W polariser W/A or Oversize (Robert White)
Free B/W Catalogue lots of tech info: www.schneideroptics.com/info/handbook.
Get the large version about 7.2mb
Bit expensive for the polariser but if it works it's cheap !!!
C
 
Ceejay said:
Hi,
Haven't been on this thread for while, I would be interested to know how the Pro upgrade works out.
I understood it to be two holders attached together with a moveable ring so you could adjust the square polariser relative to a N/D grad.
Wouldn't this combination be rather thick ?
I have just checked some of my holders (varying no of slots) on my widest lens' equivalent to a 14mm on full frame from wide open down to f45 and can use a one slot holder and polariser together no problem.
Not knowng your lens could it be possible that being a zoom and physically longer than a prime that is causing your problem.
Maybe not !
Anyway, hope you can resolve this and hope you post conclusion here.
You could always phone LEE for assistance have always found them very helpful.
C
Click to expand...

Thanks Ceejay, I'll let you know how it goes.

I think you're right about the pro kit, it will be thick but I'm hoping that it'll be thick in the right places when compared to the other set up I tried.

I'll post some photos of it when I get it.

It's really the addition of the hood and associated filters holder that causes the major problem.

The fact that you've tried this set up with a 14mm lens is promising, ideally I'd like to try different setups in a shop before I buy, the problem is finding somewhere that does everything I need and has it in stock!

Thanks for the link, certainly something for me to fall back on if needed

Cheers
Phobic
 
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