Lee Filters - tell the truth on quality

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OK so I was thinking about getting some 75mm Lee filters because I mistakenly believed they were glass and would therefore be better than the plastic Kood ones that I used to use. However now that I know they're only plastic the same, why the hell should I be paying up £up to £90 a pop on one? Are they multicoated? or are they just going to glare and flare as soon as I point it at light?

Also colour casts - the Big stopper is naturally very bad with them, but what of the grads?

So come on, tell me honestly - are they really worth 9x more than a Kood one? :thinking:
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
OK so I was thinking about getting some 75mm Lee filters because I mistakenly believed they were glass and would therefore be better than the plastic Kood ones that I used to use. However now that I know they're only plastic the same, why the hell should I be paying up £up to £90 a pop on one? Are they multicoated? or are they just going to glare and flare as soon as I point it at light?

Also colour casts - the Big stopper is naturally very bad with them, but what of the grads?

So come on, tell me honestly - are they really worth 9x more than a Kood one? :thinking:
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9x more, it's difficult to justify this but they're undoubtedly the best available, no colour cast with the grads but there is one with the 10 stop...I have much more confidence in getting decent results than when I owned Cokin/Hitech but it is at a hefty premium...I'll leave you to decide if it's worth it to you

Simon
 
simonkit said:
9x more, it's difficult to justify this but they're undoubtedly the best available, no colour cast with the grads but there is one with the 10 stop...I have much more confidence in getting decent results than when I owned Cokin/Hitech but it is at a hefty premium...I'll leave you to decide if it's worth it to you

Simon
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On a price point it certainly isn't worth it to me, nowhere near, but if I can point it at a light source without it flaring, ghosting or killing the contrast I might just be able to twist my own arm.
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
On a price point it certainly isn't worth it to me, nowhere near, but if I can point it at a light source without it flaring, ghosting or killing the contrast I might just be able to twist my own arm.
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I really convinced myself by thinking about how much I've been prepared to invest in camera bodies and lenses, relatively speaking the Lee filters are pretty cheap for me :eek:

.
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
OK so I was thinking about getting some 75mm Lee filters because I mistakenly believed they were glass and would therefore be better than the plastic Kood ones that I used to use. However now that I know they're only plastic the same, why the hell should I be paying up £up to £90 a pop on one? Are they multicoated? or are they just going to glare and flare as soon as I point it at light?

Also colour casts - the Big stopper is naturally very bad with them, but what of the grads?

So come on, tell me honestly - are they really worth 9x more than a Kood one? :thinking:
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Yes they are still plastic, but they are a hell of a lot better than the hitechs i had. I've stacked 7 stops of Lee filters and have no casts, flaring or anything :thumbs: Pricey yes, but you get what you pay for
 
Did you see the video (posted on her a while back) of the Lee factory and the way the filters were produced ?

I'm not saying they aren't the best and perhaps they've since invested some money in production but it's no wonder their prices have to be so high and availabilty is often a problem.
 
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you will get more flare if you are asking for it. They are not multicoated and they scratch easily. If I buy again I'll get Hitechs, my 0.9 reverse has no colour cast at all. But to be fair I wish someone in China setup a knockoff factory, about time...
 
Yes, they are very good, and you know you won't 'buy cheap buy twice'. Look after them and they'll do you proud for many many years. They are not multicoated, and they will ghost if you go looking for it, but they will do their job without giving you tricky colour casts or degrading your image. The RF-75 system is a lovely little bit of kit - I got mine two days ago. The big stopper will be out in 75mm guise soon, and although it does have a colour cast, it's better than most other 10-stoppers.

Filters will outlast your camera, and most probably your lenses. Why skimp on quality?
 
[thinking out loud]I wonder if it's possible to retrocoat resin filters by taking them to an optician who makes their own spec lenses on site? I know they do some coatings (tints, scratch resistance) but unsure if they do the sort that we (as photographers) might find useful (anti reflection being the main one). Anyone here work in a lab that makes spec lenses or have a mate who does so?[/thinking out loud]
 
Just another thought are the lee filter holders gasketed between filters?

Nod the trouble with coatings like that is it wouldn't be round the edges of the filter - something I realised when I got my new glasses and said yes to having them multi-coated, thinking they'd be great outdoors, well they're not! Because they're frameless the light just goes straight in the sides and bypasses the coatings, completely defeating the object!

Thinking about it this may be a lot of what happens with filters...maybe I'll get a kood and some black paint and go experimenting!
 
I use Lee exclusively now and much prefer them.

My grads have zero colour cast and 1 of my 3 Big Stoppers has a slight blue cast.

I'd never considered the coating on them when I bought them, but I am careful and stuff I have been using for close to three years is like new and that is with a lot of sea spray covered shots.
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
Just another thought are the lee filter holders gasketed between filters?
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Nope, I don't think that would be practical due to the way the filters slot in. The big stopper does have a gasket one one side to seal against the holder (by the way, my big stopper is actually very close to neutral in terms of colour cast). Like many I started down the cheap filter route and have over time ended up with all Lee gear. It's mainly because of the massively better performance when stacked.
 
Nod said:
[thinking out loud]I wonder if it's possible to retrocoat resin filters by taking them to an optician who makes their own spec lenses on site? I know they do some coatings (tints, scratch resistance) but unsure if they do the sort that we (as photographers) might find useful (anti reflection being the main one). Anyone here work in a lab that makes spec lenses or have a mate who does so?[/thinking out loud]
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I've spoken to Lee about coating and they said it's difficult considering the large area invloved so big increase in cost made even bigger by the inevitably high reject rate, and at the end of the day only marginal benefit.

I tend to agree. Flare shouldn't be too serious if you avoid stacking whenever possible in difficult situations, and ghosting - always a problem with filters regardless - can usually be worked around. Eg, with a sunset, don't position the sun right in the middle.

The two things that make Lee expensive are a) quality, and b) quality control. I've tested a lot of filters and grads and with most others the colour varies a bit, the grads lines are not so consistently hard/soft, and there are occasional sharpness issues.

If you buy a set of Lee grads, they will all be exactly to spec, and if you need to replace one, it will also be the same. It seems that the best way to ensure this consistently high standard of quality involves a lot of costly manual work.

BTW, it's only necessary to have a light-tight seal around the filter with the Big Stopper and other extremely dark NDs.

Edit: having said that, it rather depends on how keen a grad user you are. If you've got a set of three or four, then consistency of colour and grad lines etc is very important. I'm not a great fan of grads (prefer HDR blending) but like a lot of folks I do have just one! It's a Kood, it works just fine, and you would not be able to distinguish a shot taken with that vs Lee.
 
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I am in the process of upgrading my filters from 85mm to 100mm. I currently have a set of Hitech hard grads and don't have the money to buy a set of Lee grads..

So, would I be best with a hard or soft grad for starters ? I guess it'd be a 0.6.
 
damianmkv said:
I am in the process of upgrading my filters from 85mm to 100mm. I currently have a set of Hitech hard grads and don't have the money to buy a set of Lee grads..

So, would I be best with a hard or soft grad for starters ? I guess it'd be a 0.6.
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Depends what sort of subject you shoot most often with grads I guess.

For me it's soft as horizons tend to be hilly or broken. If I was into seascapes then I'd go for hard.
 
damianmkv said:
I am in the process of upgrading my filters from 85mm to 100mm. I currently have a set of Hitech hard grads and don't have the money to buy a set of Lee grads..

So, would I be best with a hard or soft grad for starters ? I guess it'd be a 0.6.
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The hard/soft effect you get also varies according to focal length and aperture. It's actually a by-product of depth of field changes, but wide-angles make the grad line harder, and high f/numbers do too, though to a lesser extent.

Try it by shooting a plain white wall at different focal lengths and apertures.
 
Never had a colour cast problem with my Big Stopper and find the Lee system to be excellent - I've tried B&W and Cokin but was a waste of money and should have gone with Lee in the 1st place.
I have the standard series and the larger un it for my Nikon 14-24 - I've never scratched one and imagine this would only happen with a lack of care.
 
HoppyUK said:
The hard/soft effect you get also varies according to focal length and aperture. It's actually a by-product of depth of field changes, but wide-angles make the grad line harder, and high f/numbers do too, though to a lesser extent.

Try it by shooting a plain white wall at different focal lengths and apertures.
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Thanks for that. I have a 10-20 now, hence the upgrade. Think I'll go for the soft grad as I don't often shoot seascapes.
 
I have various Hitech & Lee Filters and can say that if you stack Hitechs you get a Magenta cast whereas theres no cast with the Lee's.
If you go for 150 x 100 the price difference isnt that much as Hitech have increased their prices. If you look here the Hitechs are around £57 each while Lees are around £72 each after VAT. Im sure my first 150 x 100 Hitech was £38 + VAT aswell so theyve jumped up quite a bit. Obviously taking advantage of the never ending stock issues with Lee!
http://www.studiokitdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/Lee_Filters/Hitech_ND_Grads.htm
http://www.studiokitdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/Lee_Filters/Resin_ND_Grads/ND_G.9s.htm
I have a few Hoya Pro 1 Digital Filters and ive found that they can be marked very easily... For example i got one stuck on my Step Up ring and put a rubber band around the edge which slipped when i tried to remove the filter. My thumb with the rubber band touched the filter when i slipped and now theres a mark where it hit. I wonder if this is the coating being removed. :( This happened on the first time i used it aswell! :/

RE the new Hitech range they are just solid NDs atm. Theyre bloody pricy aswell, more than Lee filters :/
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-prostop-irnd-c-1047_78_1115_1978.html

100mm 10 Stop is £122. http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-100mm-prostop-irnd-resin-filter-p-17746.html

Phil
 
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GIZTO29 said:
RE the new Hitech range they are just solid NDs atm. Theyre bloody pricy aswell, more than Lee filters :/
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-prostop-irnd-c-1047_78_1115_1978.html

100mm 10 Stop is £122. http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-100mm-prostop-irnd-resin-filter-p-17746.html

Phil
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I've just ordered one of the new Hitech filters but there is a 2 week wait for it also ordered a Lee Big Stopper to see if it has less of a colour cast than the Lee I already have.
I will do a few comparrison shots when I get them as I seem to be a bit obsessed with 10 stop filters at the moment. I have 2 Hitech Pro Stop 10's a Multicoated B&W a Big Stopper soon to be 2 Big Stoppers and the new Hitech!!!
 
GIZTO29 said:
I have various Hitech & Lee Filters and can say that if you stack Hitechs you get a Magenta cast whereas theres no cast with the Lee's.
If you go for 150 x 100 the price difference isnt that much as Hitech have increased their prices. If you look here the Hitechs are around £57 each while Lees are around £72 each after VAT. Im sure my first 150 x 100 Hitech was £38 + VAT aswell so theyve jumped up quite a bit. Obviously taking advantage of the never ending stock issues with Lee!
http://www.studiokitdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/Lee_Filters/Hitech_ND_Grads.htm
http://www.studiokitdirect.co.uk/Catalogue/Lee_Filters/Resin_ND_Grads/ND_G.9s.htm
I have a few Hoya Pro 1 Digital Filters and ive found that they can be marked very easily... For example i got one stuck on my Step Up ring and put a rubber band around the edge which slipped when i tried to remove the filter. My thumb with the rubber band touched the filter when i slipped and now theres a mark where it hit. I wonder if this is the coating being removed. :( This happened on the first time i used it aswell! :/

RE the new Hitech range they are just solid NDs atm. Theyre bloody pricy aswell, more than Lee filters :/
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-prostop-irnd-c-1047_78_1115_1978.html

100mm 10 Stop is £122. http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-100mm-prostop-irnd-resin-filter-p-17746.html

Phil
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It's not the coating coming off, but a stain. The coating is actually very tough, but is prone to marking if for example you let water dry on. Leaves a small silvery spot that won't come off, but doesn't appear to do any harm. Very annoying though.

Hoya Pro1 is prone to this, as are many others. Only the top range like Hoya HD, B+W MRC, or Marumi Super DHG have weather-resistant coatings. Or plain glass, like Lee, cleans up okay.

Those new Hitech IR-HD filters look interesting, presumably imported glass, like Lee Big Stopper. So Hitech is owning up to IR problems with the old resin ProStop then? About time.
 
The Lee filters are pretty durable if you look after them. Cheaper filters seem to scratch very easy and need replacing. Its definitely worth spending more on filters
 
Gutted that the ones in the classifieds went whilst i wasn't looking earlier today
 
While I am waiting for my new Hitech ProStop IRND Resin Filter which is supposed to have no colour cast arriving I though I'd do a test with my 2 Lee Big Stoppers and my B&W 10 stop and 6 stop.
As you can see there is quite a difference in colour casts between the different brands but they all colour correct ok the Hitech does lack the contrast of the others though but that is easily corrected in photoshop.

The 1st image is taken with no filter at all.
The rest of the pictures are taken with the filter and then on the right is a version corrected with one click of the white balance tool in Lightroom.



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Dale, you need to test them in daylight. Different kinds of daylight, too, from bright midday sun, early/late sun, cloudy etc. Though I notice brown blacks with the Hitech Pro Stop above. What was the lighting there?

The difference is in the light's IR content, and I've had very different results in the same situation, just shooting towards the light (direct IR) and then turning around to shoot away from it (less reflected IR). When IR is high, you'll find the Hitech Pro Stop is prone to uncorrectable colours - you can't get good greens and blacks go brown, sometimes badly. Try a test shot in tungsten light, rich in IR, to really provoke the problem. It will be very good if they have fixed that with the new filter that I'm guessing may be imported glass, like the Lee Big Stopper, but I don't know for sure.

You may get different results with different cameras, too, depending on where their internal IR filters clip. This used to be a bit of an issue, but I think less so now. I've compared a few current Nikons and Canons and not noted much difference.

Making one of these extreme ND filters completely neutral in all conditions is extremely difficult. They all have a cast of some sort, and they also vary batch to batch in both colour and density. It's quality control and the reject rate that pushes the prices up. A slight cast is never really a problem, easily correctable with custom white balance or in post processing. It only becomes an issue, in theory, if you want to stack with an ND grad but most people seem to find an acceptable compromise for that.
 
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HoppyUK said:
Though I notice brown blacks with the Hitech Pro Stop above. What was the lighting there?
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Richard
These were all lit with a pair of 55w (300W eq) 5400K pure white daylight bulbs.
I will do a similar test when I get the new Hitech to see how that compares against the others.
As you say I will need to do tests outside as that is where they will be used I'm not to worried about the ability to reproduce the colour exactly as I would probably be converting to B&W 80% of the time. However it would be great if colour and contrast were reproduced as it is.
 
stormcrow said:
Richard
These were all lit with a pair of 55w (300W eq) 5400K pure white daylight bulbs.
I will do a similar test when I get the new Hitech to see how that compares against the others.
As you say I will need to do tests outside as that is where they will be used I'm not to worried about the ability to reproduce the colour exactly as I would probably be converting to B&W 80% of the time. However it would be great if colour and contrast were reproduced as it is.
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That would be interesting Dale. Daylight is where it's at obviously, and heck knows what the spectral characteristics are of those bulbs, particularly beyond the visible spectrum which is where these extreme ND filters can react unpredictably, pushing colour pollution down into the visible zone. Different lenses could impact on that too, as well as cameras, but let's not get too caried away.

TBH it's only the Hitech Pro Stop (the only one currently on the market made from resin I believe) that I've occasionally had real trouble with. All the others were okay - Hoya, B+W MC, LightCraftWorkshop, both versions of the Haida, Lee, Heliopan. It would be good if the new Hitech Pro Stop IRND offers a high quality alternative for square filter users :)
 
My new Hitech Prostop 10 IRND filter has just arrived so I've done a very quick test to see what the colour cast is like.
These images have had nothing at all done to them other than crop and resize.
As you can see compared to my other Hitech and Lee Big Stoppers this filter seem to be the best for colour cast.
If you look at the black you can still see a slight redness to it but still way better than my other Hitech.

60thsec.jpg


Need to get myself out and try these out in more realistic conditions though.
 
That's good news Dale. Thanks :thumbs:

But was that the same light source? The true test has got to be daylight, outdoors (not through glass) with bright sun, some deep shadows, and a bit of grass that shows up IR pollution well.

Neutral colour is good, particularly if you're using it with a grad, but more important is how well it cleans up when colour corrected.
 
HoppyUK said:
That's good news Dale. Thanks :thumbs:

But was that the same light source? The true test has got to be daylight, outdoors (not through glass) with bright sun, some deep shadows, and a bit of grass that shows up IR pollution well.

Neutral colour is good, particularly if you're using it with a grad, but more important is how well it cleans up when colour corrected.
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It was exactly the same conditions as my other tests ie 5400K pure white daylight bulbs.
 
stormcrow said:
It was exactly the same conditions as my other tests ie 5400K pure white daylight bulbs.
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Yes, as I assumed. But in this context daylight balanced bulbs are not the same as real daylight, which is where these filters are used. May be similar, may not be, it's the invisible spectrum that matters. They could be flattering the filter, or making it look worse.

It's gotta be good news though :)
 
My big stopper has turned blue in strong midday sun. But in the shade (under a pier) I noticed nothing, and sunrises with strong colours I see nothing!

I'm no expert but that's just what I've noticed!
 
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