Leica D-Lux 5 compact - any opinions?

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Andy
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Just doing a bit of idle daydreaming (which usually turns into an expensive purchase of one sort or another :D) about getting hold of a really portable, but top notch digital camera for travel and day-to-day use.

I love my Nikon DSLRs :love:, but they only go with me if I am planning to take pictures. Typically, a lot of the best shots are seen when I have no camera with me :| (sound familiar to anyone else :naughty:?). The problem has always been that I have never seen an alternative to a small DSLR, which had the right levels of pure image quality and portability. Sure, Panasonic make some nice small cameras now (GF1, GF10 etc.), but those all need either a variety of prime lenses, or a zoom lens that is too big to make them truly 'pocket sized'. My feeling is that if I bought one of those, I would probably still end up leaving it behind most of the time, not to mention getting into buying loads of new lenses :|.

The Leica appeals, partly because of the implied build quality that comes with the brand name, largely because it only has the one built-in zoom lens (which disappears into the body, making the dimensions very small) and partially because of the variable format selector (which lets you choose the frame proportions in the camera - could be a slight aid to creativity, methinks :naughty:).

Here it is:

http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/compact_cameras/d-lux_5/

But, I couldn't help noticing that Panasonic have a model, which appears to be very closely related to this, the Lumix LX5 ...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Lumix-10-1MP-Digital-Camera/dp/B003WOKUVK/ref=sr_1_10?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1292424500&sr=1-10

The thing is, I would really like to hear from the people here who have used/owned either one of these models, to try and establish just how close to 'DSLR standards' the images can be :shrug:!?

One concern is shallow DOF (or lack of). I believe that the smaller sensors in these kind of cameras are less able to render shallow DOF than the larger sensors (which are projected onto by larger glass). Despite this camera's lens having an "f/2" aperture, does that really translate into creamy bokeh :thinking:?

Another thing that the brochure doesn't really show is how easy this camera is to operate like an SLR. For instance, can one select the individual AF point to be used and is ISO adjustment easily controllable (or do you have to hunt through screen menus for it)? I'm curious too about how the electronic viewfinder works on this model and whether or not you can see the AF points and other info through it!?

Last question would be, "How do the two models compare to each other"?

I'm not expecting much of a response on this, as I did a search on the word "Leica" and there were only a couple of posts relating to the D-Lux models. Anyway, all informed opinions are welcome :) ....
 
Never touched either, but from what I have read, your better off iwth the panny and saving yourself a few quid.

Have you considered going to the other side, a Canon G series......
 
Never touched either, but from what I have read, your better off iwth the panny and saving yourself a few quid.

Have you considered going to the other side, a Canon G series......

Well, I can't say that I have considered the Canon alternatives yet, but I did just have a quick look and see that they have some similar designs.

What it really boils down to is just how good large .jpgs are going to look from any of these cameras, compared to my D90 and Nikkor lenses. If the Leica images are in any way Leica-like :thinking:, then it's an appealing option. If all of them just produce shots that look like most compact cameras, then I need to wait a few more years for technology to change things ;).
 
As far as I know the differences include.... a different grip, firmware, supplied software, possibly a different strap, and the Leica possibly has a longer warranty.

If shooting RAW and using existing software I don't know if anyone would be able to tell one camera from the other and I personaly think that only brand snobbery would lead to buying the Leica and paying the hefty price premium but we must all make our own mind up.
 
the Leica is made by Panasonic and is very very similar to the LX5. You would be paying for the red dot!!!!
 
the Leica is made by Panasonic and is very very similar to the LX5. You would be paying for the red dot!!!!

Definitely not interested in doing that :lol:!

Actually Andy, I just found a thread on the LX5 which you had posted in. The results are fantastic for the money, but I'm still not convinced that they have any of that "Leica quality", which is seen in the higher end rangefinders :|. I think that I was expecting too much really - if either of these cameras could out-perform a mid-range DSLR, almost everybody would own one :shrug:.

No, I think that I need to get used to the idea that I will have to carry a camera bag with me when I travel, instead of having the convenience of being able to just pull an all-in-one solution out of my pocket :shrug:. Nuts :razz:!!!
 
Micro four thirds will be worth a look, or maybe the Sigma DP series

I must admit though, I'm selling my EP1 as I want something that will fit in my pocket properly.
 
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It's true that MFT wont fit in a shirt or trouser pocket but we've been spoilt by fag packet sized compacts for size and forget that they don't really deliver quality or manual control.

Only a few years ago a quality compact 35mm film camera or even a rangefinder was bigger than a MFT so why is the size of MFT suddenly a problem?
 
Definitely not interested in doing that :lol:!

Actually Andy, I just found a thread on the LX5 which you had posted in. The results are fantastic for the money, but I'm still not convinced that they have any of that "Leica quality", which is seen in the higher end rangefinders :|. I think that I was expecting too much really - if either of these cameras could out-perform a mid-range DSLR, almost everybody would own one :shrug:.

No, I think that I need to get used to the idea that I will have to carry a camera bag with me when I travel, instead of having the convenience of being able to just pull an all-in-one solution out of my pocket :shrug:. Nuts :razz:!!!

I have an LX5 and a DSLR. I like the LX5, it is good for taking to gigs, I can get some dof out of it.. It isn't a patch on my 7d though...

Carry your camera bag.. it is worth it....
 
It's true that MFT wont fit in a shirt or trouser pocket but we've been spoilt by fag packet sized compacts for size and forget that they don't really deliver quality or manual control.

Only a few years ago a quality compact 35mm film camera or even a rangefinder was bigger than a MFT so why is the size of MFT suddenly a problem?

The size of the actual EP1 isn't a huge, but it isn't going in a pocket with the kit lens on! :-)

It's just the fact there are times I don't want to carry a little camera bag
 
For me it would be a toss up between the Leica and the Fuji.

The Leica plus points, even over the LX5 are the firmware, the fact that it can shoot square format 1:1 images as well as the rest of the formats, the supplied software,slightly larger physical sensor size and the lens, pretty damn fast and a useful range.

With the Fuji, its that APSC sensor, fast prime lens (F2) which should give it good depth of field effects and the fact that its the nearest thing to a digital range finder that isn't an older Epson RD or a Leica with the resultant price tag.
 
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I have the Leica D Lux 4 and it goes everywhere with me. :)

They are great little camera for taking those pics that you see and don't have your dslr with you. OK you may not get such creamy bokeh but it does other things that your dslr does not do.

It fits in a pocket, mine lives in my handbag and I use it a lot, even for recces on wedding venues.

It has a load of cool modes that my D700 does not have, like P ;) but it also has as much creative control as I need, I could even stick a flashgun or pocketwizards on it and use if for off camera flash if I wanted. :)

Shooting different aspect ratios is great fun.

The scene modes on it are fab and it takes better sunset pics than my damned d700!

That little battery lasts an absolute age.

As a carry round and travel camera it's perfect.
 
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Hi Andy,

I had a Leica D-Lux 3 (looked lovely but small sensor with all that restrictions that come with it), then a Sigma DP-1 (great for landscapes but with the bizarre small resolution images you get from a "12 Megapixel" Foveon sensor but great detail and dynamic range. Useless controls and crap for portraits, rubbish high ISO)

I considered all sorts including the G12, LX5 and the Sigma DP-2, but settled for the Panasonic GF-1, and it is the prefect compliment to the D700. I use it a lot, sometimes when the D700 is available I still reach for the GF-1. The 20mm pancake lens is equivalent to 40mm, making it good for portraits or landscapes and the 1.7 aperture gives nice bokeh even though the sensor is small relative to the D700.

I almost didn’t post this because you were quite specific in your questions, but I would not dismiss the GF-1 if you are looking at that kind of budget.
 
The Leica plus points, even over the LX5 are the firmware, the fact that it can shoot square format 1:1 images as well as the rest of the formats, the supplied software,slightly larger physical sensor size and the lens, pretty damn fast and a useful range.

I think it has the same sensor and lens as the Panasonic which also offers the same aspect ratio choices, including 1:1.

Here they are...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10092127leicadlux5.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072110panasonicdmclx5.asp#specs
 
The size of the actual EP1 isn't a huge, but it isn't going in a pocket with the kit lens on! :-)

It's just the fact there are times I don't want to carry a little camera bag

But the fact that it's available with a zoom lens doesn't mean that you have to use one. With a prime the GF1 is smaller than a quality film 35mm camera as those usually came with a prime too... that was my point.

If you wanrt a zoom lens then you should compare the GF1 + zoom to something that'd give the same quality output, with a similar zoom.
 
Thanks for all the replies :). Just to respond to a few points ...


Already ruled out, I'm afraid, as I'd just as soon carry my D90 and DX lenses around, as carry a fractionally smaller body with similar size lenses.

I fully understand why so many people love these cameras (I've read the GF threads here quite often ;)), but it's just not the solution that I'm looking for right now.

Take a look at the X100. Early next year hopefully.

Is that going to be another Panasonic, or another brand? Sorry, I don't know much about these compact cameras :shrug:.

Micro four thirds will be worth a look, or maybe the Sigma DP series

I must admit though, I'm selling my EP1 as I want something that will fit in my pocket properly.

:thumbs: Me too!

For me it would be a toss up between the Leica and the Fuji.

The Leica plus points, even over the LX5 are the firmware, the fact that it can shoot square format 1:1 images as well as the rest of the formats, the supplied software,slightly larger physical sensor size and the lens, pretty damn fast and a useful range.

With the Fuji, its that APSC sensor, fast prime lens (F2) which should give it good depth of field effects and the fact that its the nearest thing to a digital range finder that isn't an older Epson RD or a Leica with the resultant price tag.

I think that it got mentioned later in this thead, but the Panasonic also offers the 1:1 ratio. Haven't looked at the Fuji, but unless it has a Leica or Zeiss lens, I'm not sure that it would offer the kind of image quality that I was looking for (brand snobbery, or what :lol:!?).

I have the Leica D Lux 4 and it goes everywhere with me.

They are great little camera for taking those pics that you see and don't have your dslr with you. OK you may not get such creamy bokeh but it does other things that your dslr does not do.

It fits in a pocket, mine lives in my handbag and I use it a lot, even for recces on wedding venues.

It has a load of cool modes that my D700 does not have, like P ;) but it also has as much creative control as I need, I could even stick a flashgun or pocetwizards on it and use if for off camera flash if I wanted. :)

Shooting different aspect ratios is great fun.

The scene modes on it are fab and it takes better sunset pics than my damned d700!

That little battery lasts an absolute age.

As a carry round and travel camera it's perfect.

This is why I could see the LX5 being so useful, Ali :). My original notion that the Leica might even be a replacement for my DSLRs (offering similar image quality), when travelling, was a bit optimistic I think. No, I can see these compacts for what they are now - a very, very good alternative to the p&s pocket cameras of just 2 or 3 years ago :naughty:!

Hi Andy,

I had a Leica D-Lux 3 (looked lovely but small sensor with all that restrictions that come with it), then a Sigma DP-1 (great for landscapes but with the bizarre small resolution images you get from a "12 Megapixel" Foveon sensor but great detail and dynamic range. Useless controls and crap for portraits, rubbish high ISO)

I considered all sorts including the G12, LX5 and the Sigma DP-2, but settled for the Panasonic GF-1, and it is the prefect compliment to the D700. I use it a lot, sometimes when the D700 is available I still reach for the GF-1. The 20mm pancake lens is equivalent to 40mm, making it good for portraits or landscapes and the 1.7 aperture gives nice bokeh even though the sensor is small relative to the D700.

I almost didn’t post this because you were quite specific in your questions, but I would not dismiss the GF-1 if you are looking at that kind of budget.

Hiya Pete!

In the OP, I did also write; "All informed opinions are welcome", so your input is very much appreciated :thumbs:.

Many times, I've thought about a GF1 and 35 or 50mm (equivalent) prime lens, as the image quality is pretty much on par with either of my Nikons (give or take). What kills that idea for me is the fact that on many occasions, I have gone out roaming with just one prime lens on my camera and have (rather romantically :D) gone out to follow in the footsteps of Henri Cartier-Bresson, by just working with what was available. Inevitably though, I just keep running into situations where I can't get the picture that I want, because the focal length forbids me from getting the composition that I want (when 'zooming by foot' and/or levitating in mid-air :lol: are simply not possible).

No, if I'm going to just carry one camera all the time, it needs a zoom lens. If that camera will squeeze into the pocket of a (summer) jacket, then it will be of use, if it necessitates a camera bag, then I already own that solution in the form of the D90/11-16mm Tamron/17-50mm Tamron & Nikkor 55-200mm VR.

Again, thanks for all the comments.
 
I can see these compacts for what they are now - a very, very good alternative to the p&s pocket cameras of just 2 or 3 years ago :naughty:!

I can understand you not wanting one (LX5 or similar) but I do think that you're being a little too critical. They're not only better than the P&S compacts of a few years ago they're better than the P&S compacts of today and they allow manual control.
 
No .... I didn't buy a Leica (or anything else for that matter) ;).

I went to the local electronics superstore and picked up a few compacts to try out :naughty:. Most of them (including those from my beloved Nikon :'(), got put straight back onto their little magnetic holders, as the controls were fiddly/illogical/already broken off :D etc.

The Lumix LX5, on the other hand, was probably the best of the lot (IMO). Build quality was not especially good, I thought (one area where I would expect the Leica D-Lux 5 to improve on :|). In particular, the thumb-wheel for the aperture control felt stiff, plasticky and quite vulnerable :shrug:. But, all of the functions were there and I could choose aperture and AF points pretty easily. I couldn't work out how the exposure compensation worked (there was an icon on the LCD display for it, but none of the dials or buttons brought it to life :|), but of course, I haven't read the manual.

All in all, I was impressed enough with the LX5 to consider buying one, although I still don't really seeing it as being a good choice for holidays where photography is the main priority, as my other kit will surely give me more options and better images.

Next step!? Wait for an unexpected wage bonus (that might take a while) and maybe nab one in the January sales. It's not really something that I need in order to pursue my photography hobby, but it would certainly be a massive improvement over the Canon Ixus 75, which I currently own but always leave at home because of its erratic focus and perpetual (huge) DOF :|. Since getting into DSLRs, I just can't look at the output from that pocket camera any more - I'm such a snob :|!

Thanks again to all those who answered my OP. I think that I've seen as much as I need to see now ;).
 
I can understand you not wanting one (LX5 or similar) but I do think that you're being a little too critical. They're not only better than the P&S compacts of a few years ago they're better than the P&S compacts of today and they allow manual control.

Fair enough ;)!
 
I think it has the same sensor and lens as the Panasonic which also offers the same aspect ratio choices, including 1:1.

Here they are...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10092127leicadlux5.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072110panasonicdmclx5.asp#specs

You're correct, like previous Leica compacts of this type it's a slightly reworked version of a Panasonic camera but the sensor is the same. While both cameras offer a 1:1 square format it's just a crop of the 4:3 shot whereas the 4:3, 3:2 and 16:9 aspect ratios are not crops of any other.

John
 
So have you made your mind up yet? ;-)

I'm still torn between the S95 and LX5

Well, kind of :thinking: - I've decided not to buy anything for the moment. I think that the LX5 is probably worth the £300 price tag, but I don't have money to burn right now.

Maybe in the January sales :naughty:!?
 
You might pick something used up. I've just sold my LX2 here and although it isn't this years model it's still better than a compact :1st:
 
the Leica is made by Panasonic and is very very similar to the LX5. You would be paying for the red dot!!!!

not quite correct, Leica make their own cameras and lenses, Panasonic make the lenses for their own range under the Leica badge to the same engineering controls- both companies and engineers work very closely on all products so there is a vast overlay of knowledge etc but Panny dont make the Leica cameras as far as I'm aware.

That new fuji X100 looks fantastic but the small range and the non Leica lens would put me off.
Wonder if Leica will respond with their own version of the X100- that would sell well I think
 
not quite correct, Leica make their own cameras and lenses, Panasonic make the lenses for their own range under the Leica badge to the same engineering controls- both companies and engineers work very closely on all products so there is a vast overlay of knowledge etc but Panny dont make the Leica cameras as far as I'm aware.

Leica produce their 'own' cameras such as the M9 and the S2 but Panasonic design and manufacture the D-lux 5 and the other Leica branded versions of their own cameras. There's clearly a world of difference between the hand built and massively expensive genuine Leicas and the mass produced Panasonic models like the D-lux 5. Leica and Panasonic are intentionally quiet over the arrrangement, the most they've said is that the cameras and lenses (the non-hand built, non-super expensive ones) are manufactured by Panasonic and checked to be up to Leica's QC standards. In the past both Sigma and Minolta have manufactured 'Leica' lenses again to Leica's QC standards, the Leica badge is well worth having on your own equipment.

John
 
Leica produce their 'own' cameras such as the M9 and the S2 but Panasonic design and manufacture the D-lux 5 and the other Leica branded versions of their own cameras. There's clearly a world of difference between the hand built and massively expensive genuine Leicas and the mass produced Panasonic models like the D-lux 5. Leica and Panasonic are intentionally quiet over the arrrangement, the most they've said is that the cameras and lenses (the non-hand built, non-super expensive ones) are manufactured by Panasonic and checked to be up to Leica's QC standards. In the past both Sigma and Minolta have manufactured 'Leica' lenses again to Leica's QC standards, the Leica badge is well worth having on your own equipment.

John

Thanks for clearing that up John, its actually quite hard to establish who builds what anymore:lol: and its made me rethink getting a panny now instead of a Leica:thumbs:
 
I gave up with compacts some time ago - I found that I'd bring a compact with me when I couldn't be bothered with my DSLR and then kick myself when the inevitable opportunity came up and I didnt have the right camera! Now I just use my iPhone 4 as I have that on me 24/7, otherwise just take my D5000. Works for me, granted the contacts I had were never in Leica price range!
 
Leica produce their 'own' cameras such as the M9 and the S2 but Panasonic design and manufacture the D-lux 5 and the other Leica branded versions of their own cameras. There's clearly a world of difference between the hand built and massively expensive genuine Leicas and the mass produced Panasonic models like the D-lux 5. Leica and Panasonic are intentionally quiet over the arrrangement, the most they've said is that the cameras and lenses (the non-hand built, non-super expensive ones) are manufactured by Panasonic and checked to be up to Leica's QC standards. In the past both Sigma and Minolta have manufactured 'Leica' lenses again to Leica's QC standards, the Leica badge is well worth having on your own equipment.

John

That makes sense to me. I must say, even though I haven't found anywhere that has the Leica in stock (to play with :naughty:), the pictures that I've seen of it seem to show that it's made of plastic and still has a plastic thumb wheel for selecting aperture etc.

I really do think that in this case, the 100% price increase over the Panasonic is all about the name :thumbsdown:. Hell, the Panasonic even has a little rubberised grip on the front, making it more ergonomic than the flat Leica. If I do end up buying either, it will most definitely be the Panasonic :|.
 
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