Lens choice for shooting flowers

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Name
Dominic
Edit My Images
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I work in ecommerce and am generally into shooting cars, planes and landscapes - but I work within the horticulture industry and constantly get annoyed by terrible quality product photos showing flower plants with blown highlights, over saturation, poor DOF, etc (a lot of which could probably be improved if I could get access to raw files to post process). I regularly get access to suitable subject material and quite fancy having a go at shooting and processing some shots to try and improve on the dismal stock images. I've got a D7500 but don't think any of my current lenses are likely to give the best results.

If you were in the same position and had to pick one lens to shoot with, what sort of spec would you pick? A lot of the subject matter will be 12 inches high, focussing in particular on blooms, maybe aiming for some nice bokeh - but in some cases, it might demand a wider shot of a plant a couple of feet high where capturing foliage well is equally important.
 
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I would have thought your current 18-55mm zoom will be suitable until you find there is an aspect or particular 'view' such as close up of the flower interior to show the stamens etc structure.

Also, think carefully about just where you will photograph the plant i.e. make sure anything in the background is say at least 6 to 10ft away (IMO green foliage blurred by the DoF in the background looks good) unless you are trying to show the plant in a typical garden positioning with complimentary plants to illustrate "garden design & layout".

Perhaps take some pictures and post them for critique???

Oh, forgot to add IMO unless you can control any artificial light rely on daylight but use reflectors to lift shadows and give the plant "shape", flash can create harsh highlights making the plant look 'odd'.
 
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Also, think carefully about just where you will photograph the plant.

Forgot to mention that detail. A lot of the subject material I have access to is on trial growing fields, ie. typically a narrow 10ft row of a single flower variety in bloom, a couple of feet away from similar adjoining rows of slightly different varieties. I may well get a good opportunity to take some shots in the next week so I'll have to see if they're critique worthy.

I need to update my kit list on here, as it has changed a bit. I wasn't a fan of the 18-55 on the D3400, but haven't actually tried it on D7500 as yet. I've got 35 and 50mm f1.8 Nikon primes, so think they're probably the best bet, possibly with a bit of rolling in the dirt to get the optimum position!
 
With my APS-C and FF DSLR's I loved my Sigma 150mm macro but these days I only have a 50mm macro which I use on FF or MFT (for a 100mm equivalent FoV.) With only a 50/100mm FoV lens now I do miss the look I got from that 150mm.

If the aim is to get a 12 inch target in the frame maybe a macro lens isn't required for magnification and I doubt you'll be shooting at f2.8 all day so that just leaves perspective and bokeh to think about. I think I'd still gravitate towards a longer lens like that 150mm I had :D but you may not get the whole subject in if you've got limited room to back up.
 
I have to think, why try and improve existing flower photos if not being paid for it? I can understand doing it for ones self interest but not doing it for no pay , and do they actually want better photos as it would cost to reproduce on a commercial scale.
 
Forgot to mention that detail. A lot of the subject material I have access to is on trial growing fields, ie. typically a narrow 10ft row of a single flower variety in bloom, a couple of feet away from similar adjoining rows of slightly different varieties.

Oh-Kay.... so restricted access is probably your most significant issue here, and likely as much or more so than the focus range, or anything else.

Constantly get annoyed by terrible quality product photos showing flower plants with blown highlights, over saturation, poor DOF, etc ..... maybe aiming for some nice bokeh - but in some cases, it might demand a wider shot of a plant a couple of feet high where capturing foliage well is equally important.

Well, Bokah, is oh-so much NOT a property endowed by the lens, or a big aperture, for ALL so many get so pretentiouse about the hardware and rave about the number and shape of aperture blades, etc.

Its mainly a facet of the scenary.... you need high-lights and low-lights, and a back-ground condusive to producing pools of contrast, like light filtering through foliage or fairy-lights on a Christmas tree, to produce the features of bokah, for better or worse.

If you were in the same position and had to pick one lens to shoot with, what sort of spec would you pick?

Given the cicumstances.... I would most likely pick from the bag, and I would most likely use my M42 adapter, and the Ziess 50 or the Hanimex 135 primes... both are super cheap on 2nd hand market, and have close enough near focus distances, The Pentacon 29mm, would probably also pressed into service.

Small perversion, to the idea of using a long-lens to get out-of-focus back-ground, at shorter focus ranges, you can actually achieve as much or more.

Remember, the 'critical focus' zone, between near focus and infinity, tends to become longer and further from the camera, the longer the lens, and so tends to suggest longer lenses for oof back-ground effects, but, the Depth of Field is a % of focus range, and having to back up to get a subject in frame, with a longer lens, can mean you actually get more Depth-of-Focus and less 'oof' and potential bokah than with a shorter lens.

On a Crop-Sensor digital, the 'normal' angle of view lens is around 35mm, the equivilent of a 50 on Full-Frame / 35mm film; so you can go as low as a 29mm prime, for close focus, and still achieve a lot of back-ground oof-ing, and be less likely to 'over-cook' it from too much aperture and too much very fast focus fade, totally dissociating the subject from the back-ground as though photo-shopped into the picture.

Tripod would be pretty much essential, and to get low down angles, without picking flowers and studio staging them, that would beg one without leg-bracing and the adjustability to limbo that low.

Next conundrum wouyld be lighting.. the all important facet-of-fotograffy....

Here, suspicion about your complaints of blown high-lights and washed out colours, suggests harsh flash was used.... which in the field, working to a price, likely was direct on camera flash, or even worse macro-ring.

Working 'in the field', with natural light, then the problems would be to control contrast and get light where you want it.... A-N-D... THIS if anything I suspect is the most important ingredient in the recipe.

For Bokah, you need those multiple 'pools' of bright and dark to diffuse into rings.. you actually WANT contrast in some of the scene...

BUT at the same time, you want an even lighting on the actual flower to reveal detail and colour and texture... but... with enough shaddow to reveal the texture, and create shaddow to explain the form of petals and leaves and such....

THIS would make it difficult to get a flattering photo, even if you were to completely stage it in the studio... working 'in the field'... you REALLY have a tough time... and will likely need 'stage' the subject as well as you can, working with what you got, from space, through back-ground, and available light.

WHICH would make the lens-choice a much smaller part of the overall equation....

So, using my M42 legacy lenses on an adapter.... meh... they are more than good enough, and conveniently to hand, and/or cheap!!

Manual focus is also handy for closer-up subjects, especially on a tripod where you can be pretty sure that the focus didtance isn't going to change much.

These 'old' legacy primes dont have ultra-fast apertures, but they are fast enough; the Ziess 50 for example being an f2 lens, not far off that of contemprary AF-S35 or 50.. number of aperture blades and flat sides? Very much personal preference, even in the world of Bokah effliction; more blades and curved blades supposedly give a 'smoother' bokah, but old low tech lenses with flat blades and less of them, even ones that aren't so well made and make a wobbly pentacon, rather than a circle, are often aplauded for 'nicer' Bokah thats more obviouse and less clinical...

But, designed for manual focus, focusing by eye rather than dot, you can be much more discerning where YOU want to focus, rather than the electronics, and the focus ring usually has a much longer and more refined range of critical focus travel to do it by eye.

There's a few advantages to going old legacy lens here, that can be exploited. Not least that given the other concerns, an old legacy lens and adapter is 'cheap'. if you have to buy them!

Small side issue, on Nikon legacy adapters; length of the Nikon mirror housing, tends to push the lens ahead of the mount, an adapter even more so. Consequently the better adapters that allow 'infinity focus' have a 'retro-focus' lens element in them to 'correct' infinity focus of lens mounted on it... cheaper ones without, or a more expensive one with it removed... act like a short extension tube and bring near focus closer whils loosing far focus.... hmmm..... close focus adapter rings?

But onwards; success here will have littl;e to do with the lens choice; its the lighting, its the back-ground, and in that 'in the field' restricted work-space, 'staging' the subject as well as you can.

I would be pondering reflectors to bounce light into the subject where I wanted it, and possibly even artificial back-grounds, for when the natural isn't as conducive as it could be. I would be pondering artificial lighting, and off-camer flash, or portable light stacks... even if that was little more than a torch gaffer taped to a tomato cane 'improvisation'... probably similar with reflectors and bulldog clips in the absence of extra hindering hands TBH...

Basically, contemplating studio techniques, and thinking "If I cant take Mohamad to the mountain... how do I bring the mountain to Mohamad?"

Craft not Kit...

In which, your 18-55 can probably be used to get far more from it, the AF-S35 & 50, great lenses, I actually bought for my daughter, with nice fast apartures, some more... B-U-T.. those particularly, will still NOT do the job for you... daughter loved them, and they could deliver a lot of oof-effects very easily wacking the aperture wide... but, without the craft to set the stage, take control of the scene and the lighting, and look and understand what it is thats getting the 'effect' you like, particularly by way of Bokah, you'll never get the best you could from them lenses.

It's really not a question of lenses, or ultimately kit, it IS a question of craft.

WHICH takes me off on a tangent of shooting RAW and how much post-process you might try and do.....

You want to saturate colour? Under expose; shade the subject, dont shoot it at mid-day, wait until the sun's going down! Maybe even use a polarising filter.... PRIMARY way to get the image you want should be 'Clean in Camera'. There's only a limited amount of things you can do in post, and the advantages of shooting in "RAW" or in Nikon NEF format, are, to my mind HUGELY over inflated.

What can you do to a RAW image? You cant change the shutter speed; you cant change the aperture; you cant change the lens! ALL you can really do is alter the amount of electric amplification from the sensor, and diddle the response curves between high-light and shaddow for each red/green/blue colour layer......

It is NOT the place to suggest you start trying to get the pictures you hope for, its where they 'may' be polished up a little, if they are any-good to start with, which takes us back NOT to whats on the front of the camera but what is in-front of it.... and the absolute start point, staging your shot, and controlling light... craft not kit.

If you have to rush off and buy some gear? Well, my mother is a horticulture lecturer.... not my genre I hate things wot grow, probably why, actually, but still; BEST big of kit you can buy? PROBABLY a roll of that green Florists wire! Use it to hold flower heads where you want them; use it to hold inconvenient leaves out the way; use it to attach a sheet of paper or a bit of tin-foil on the next useful acquisition, a pack of garden canes, as 'in the field' studio reflectors!

Stop looking in the brochures; start thinking out the box!

BUT, ultimately... has to be asked WHY do you need or want better flower pictures? Mother had very good reasons, for lectures; to show students; not a photographer, a gardener, ACTUALLY photo's don't need be that good... no one is marking them for artistic merit! And a little point and press compact, was for three or four decades, more than good enough..... though she DID always have a roll of florists wire in her pocket..... which offers what suggestion for what you are about?
 
Can you show us some of your images Mike?
 
Can you show us some of your images Mike?
I could; there's a few in 'gallery' if you are all that interested. More on other bits of the web, mostly technical illustrations of mechanics.
What would you like to see, and for what purpose?
As said, I have very little interest in plants; mother and grandmother did far more than enough of that, for every-one!. And would any of my close-up photo's be of any real pertinence to the post? Advice remains that suggested subject matter begs borrowing technique from both close-up macro photo, and studio still life, and applying to get hoped for result; light remains as ever critical, staging the scene next, and no lens will do the job on its own.
 
I have to think, why try and improve existing flower photos if not being paid for it?

In all seriousness, it's because it's something being done badly and I think it can be improved. I'm at that "everything I shoot is terrible" stage in a photographer's development. I've spent a tonne of cash on a load of good gear in the misguided belief that it'll lead to good images. I've now told myself I'm going to stop spending and to make a point of shooting with what I have ad infinitum until I learn how to produce great results. It's a nice little project shooting subject matter I wouldn't normally consider, which I think may be a good learning exercise. We actually have a pro on hand who we use for some shots, but it would take months and cost a fortune to pay him to shoot everything I'd like to see improved. If I can get similar results myself, I can improve more than would otherwise possible, which may lead to a few brownie points at work. If I can do it with my current gear, great. If not, I MIGHT consider buying a more appropriate lens. Equally, I might hire one to prove it's worthwhile, then persuade my employers to invest in one - which I can then borrow :)

@Pete B - great shots, but a bit too tightly shot for what I need to achieve. I really need to catch the best elements - generally the flowers, but also to convey the nature of the whole plant. I'd seriously consider using a primary wide shot, plus a tighter shot like yours as a secondary image - but I think I'd have to find a way to standardise using a fairly light background.

@Teflon-Mike Loads of good points, thanks - but I think the one about "posing" the subject with wire is possibly the one which has really got me thinking. I can probably achieve the technical basics fine, but it's that extra "je ne sai quoi", injecting a hint of art in to the shots which is where I'll struggle, as I'm naturally a very techy person.
 
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Well, Bokah, is oh-so much NOT a property endowed by the lens, or a big aperture, for ALL so many get so pretentiouse about the hardware and rave about the number and shape of aperture blades, etc.

Its mainly a facet of the scenary.... you need high-lights and low-lights, and a back-ground condusive to producing pools of contrast, like light filtering through foliage or fairy-lights on a Christmas tree, to produce the features of bokah, for better or worse.

The classic bokeh demo of out-of-focus points of light blurred into circles is a good place to examine the quality of the bokeh. IMHO the best bokeh is a smooth blurring of the out-of-focus parts of the image which introduces no extra artefacts which produce pseudo-detail which distracts the eye. For example the favourite Xmas tree lights turned into coloured circles will show many of the bokeh artefact problems if they exist. Do the circles have distinct clear sharpish edges? That's a false detail which distracts the eye. It's better if they have smoothly blurred edges. Do the circles have internal structure, such as extra bright edges, or "onion rings" inside the circle? That's not only distracting detail, but will produce an over-sharpened gritty hard edged quality to the way sharp edges, such as the edges of bright petals, make the transition from being in focus to just going out of focus, and thin contrasty detail like grass stalks will double up as they blur, producing annoyingly "busy" bokeh. The classic most horrible bokeh is produced by mirror lenses, with their "doughnut" bokeh circles.

Old fashioned film-era lenses often produce better bokeh than more modern lenses, because they use uncorrected spherical aberrations to improve the bokeh at the cost of detail resolution at wide apertures. The modern fashion demands higher detail resolution at the cost of bokeh quality. There is one exception to this: the Minolta/Sony STF 135mm f2.8 [T4.5] portrait lens which was designed to produce the best bokeh quality by using an apodisation filter instead of an aperture ring. Possibly the best flower portrait lens there is, but of course only when 135mm is usable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_STF_135mm_f/2.8_T4.5

Tripod would be pretty much essential, and to get low down angles, without picking flowers and studio staging them, that would beg one without leg-bracing and the adjustability to limbo that low.

The most flexible tripod of all for getting the camera into awkward positions on uneven difficult ground is the Benbo. It's so flexible it's quite annoying when you don't want all that flexibility, but good when you do!

http://www.patersonphotographic.com/product/benbo-trecker/
 
If you have to rush off and buy some gear? Well, my mother is a horticulture lecturer.... not my genre I hate things wot grow, probably why, actually, but still; BEST big of kit you can buy? PROBABLY a roll of that green Florists wire! Use it to hold flower heads where you want them; use it to hold inconvenient leaves out the way; use it to attach a sheet of paper or a bit of tin-foil on the next useful acquisition, a pack of garden canes, as 'in the field' studio reflectors!

Excellent suggestion! Another annoying problem of trying to shoot flower portraits in the field is the flower nodding in the wind. You can use florists plastic covered wire to steady it, but much quicker to deploy than florists wire, and much stiffer and gentler in its hold on a flower stalk, is the Plamp.

https://www.wexphotovideo.com/wimberley-the-plamp-ii-1553097/

Another helpful accessory is a big piece of black cloth. You can throw it over some annoying foliage or whatever which is too close to the flower to fade it with bokeh, or you can hang it behind a flower in the shade which has an annoyingly sunlit background. A few gardeners canes and some female hair elastics are light to carry and can quickly be used to contrive a framework on which to hang the black cloth. Throw a white cloth in your gear bag as well and you can quickly knock up a DIY reflector to throw some soft light onto a shaded flower.
 
Throw a white cloth in your gear bag as well and you can quickly knock up a DIY reflector to throw some soft light onto a shaded flower.

Lol! Influenced rather too much I think, by the film American Graffiti, in my yoof, my preferred attire as a student, and beyond, was Levi's and a plain white T-shirt. T-Shirt was oft removed as improvised reflector..... jump ahead to my early 20's... and a hyatus twixt uni and career, and my mother finding me in the Kitchen, before breakfast (Having probably been up all night, with the lights out and the enlarger on the kitchen table!)... "Oh! your UP!" as she pondered the fact she was clutching a concertina bottle not the decaf jar..... "WELL! I have a Job for you! I'm going to some gardens with my evening class.... you can bring your camera!"

Hastily bundled in the back of her estate car, wedged between seed trays, spades, forks, and a strimmer....

Err.. in the early 80's at the height of the IRA post-box bombings, she got caught for speeding in her Suped-Up-Mini (It had an 850 badge on the back, and a Wolsey Over-Head-Cam 1500 engine in it!!!!) And irate that when charged, she was summonsed for crashing a red light, not exceeding the 40mph limit on the Coventry Road... decided to go to court... in Wolsey powered mini!!! Apparently the Usher found her in the security office, explaining to a Police-Man the exact reason for each of the tools in her rather large hand-bag, giving a lecture on the correct usage of WD40, why she needed three 7/16th spanners, the workings of the Lucas Ducellier distributor, and exactly what a 4lb lump hammer was used for when the starter motor wouldn't engage! BELIEVE ME, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Where was I, oh yes, wedged with a strimmer where the sun don't shine, in a Family Sized French Hand-Bag extension on wheels! (Rather like the mini... only bigger, and with a 2.2L turbo engine!!!! Bit of a lead foot, mi-mum!!!)....

But on a night-school day trip, asked to point camera at something with petals she pointed at, whilst talking Latin.... and trying to get the best light.... taking my T-shirt off, in-front of half a dozen middle aged women, doing a night class to alleviate boring middle aged domesticity!!!!!

Apparently that florists wire comes in quite handy when the points slip on a Lucas Ducellier distributors, as well as multi-fariouse other uses from fixing broken OHP projector fuses, through picking the lock on the coffee-club kitchen locker after hours!!!! Better than American express, she wouldn't go anywhere without it!

I'd mention the "Plamp" suggestion to her..... but.. BUT!

She's dangerous enough as it is! Lol!

We'd put her in an'ome... but.... Had to go to see a relative in a nursing home withe her once; sat in the foyer waiting, there was a cleaner dusting the plastic plants.... I had to drag her out of the manager's office, giving a lecture on how real flowers can 'almost' look after themselves, make O-Zone, stimulate endorphins, cure cancer and create world peace, and DON'T need dusting...... and was told quite emphatically "DONT bring her back!" Lol!
 
Ok, for shots of the plant in general maybe a short telephoto, 100-135mm, and for details a close focus or a macro. A sigma 105 macro would do this but it's a semi expensive outlay
 
A macro of around 100mm focal length will do what you want/need it to. IME the best 3 options would be (in no particular order), Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 VR, Sigma 105mm f/2.8 IS and the Tamron 90mm f/2.8 VC.

As suggested above, some means of keeping the flowers still(ish!) while you're getting the shots will help and you might want/need a few sheets of something to provide a suitably coloured background (A3 sheets of paper work well) for the times where the "natural" background is too cluttered or has unwanted elements (like greenhouse bars).
 
blown highlights, over saturation, poor DOF

Most of what you are trying to achieve will come down to technique, diffusing the light will take care of highlights etc. so a cheap 5 in 1 diffuser/reflector from amazon for starters... when you say poor DoF do you mean too little or too much, selective focus can be be used when shooting close-ups, a thin DoF is often appealing.

Plants in situ are always going to cause problems and you often want the DoF extending front to back of the subject, unfortunately this brings with it the downside of not being able to isolate your subject well... improvise with a few sheets of A3 paper (as already mentioned) as a background, in fact you could print your own that include the 'bokeh' effects you desire...
 
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