Light field cameras How cool

Nope, they are a waste of time!

There's a free app for the iPad (as long as you don't mind processing on the iPad) which let's you choose the focal point which does exactly the same thing (did I say it was free?!) and seemingly, just as well!

Ok I'm concentrating on the post shooting focus selection as that's will be it's main selling point for consumers.
 
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I am amazed that the photography community hasn't paid any real interest in this technology. While it is clearly very limited at the moment it must have huge potential.

It appears to be perceived as a gimmick in that same way that digital was initially perceived as a gimmick by camera manufactures and film users.

I have looked at buying one but the output options are limited at the moment. As for being able to achieve the same effect on an ipad, its obviously easy to blur things that are in focus but as far as I'm aware it is not possible to refocus out of focus images.
 
I just thought how cool to be able to foucs in on any part of the picture
I'm sure this will one day be the norm
 
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I'm waiting for the tech that was in blade runner... turning a static shot to see a reflection in the mirror ;)

Saw a few posts on the op before, and it looks cool. Very useful if you missed the focus. I thought some had posted a few problems with it, or it was low res and huge file or something...

Would be interested to play with it though, should some one want to show me lol :)
 
ah5168 said:
I am amazed that the photography community hasn't paid any real interest in this technology.
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It is possibly because it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and has gimmick value only.
 
ernesto said:
It is possibly because it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and has gimmick value only.
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interestingly, a few people that I know that aren't into photography who have seen it have all said that it is a great idea and hope it becomes available soon as they would all buy it.
 
ernesto said:
It is possibly because it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and has gimmick value only.
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You are so wrong. How on earth can you say obtaining focus is not a problem?!
 
Rebel t3i said:
I just thought how cool to be able to foucs in on any part of the picture
I'm sure this will one day be the norm
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I am with you on this. It will be the norm one day.

Capturing that third dimension will allow SO many things. Imagine how useful for film makers?! So easy to switch focus between people's faces in a scene etc. I bet it could even make quite good sudo-3D.
 
They're a great idea but I though physics limits them to quite a small resolution eg 1 mp or so...
 
ernesto said:
It is possibly because it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and has gimmick value only.
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I guess no one wants their shots to be perfectly in focus.

Obviously the best solution currently is to get it right in camera. But imagine you've lined up a killer shot, but missed focus by a few CM, do you not think it would be amazing to be able to refocus the shot in PP, as there's only so much your standard photoshop sharpening can achieve.
 
whom said:
You are so wrong. How on earth can you say obtaining focus is not a problem?!
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This was in the context of the comment "I am amazed that the photography community hasn't paid any real interest in this technology."

i.e. people who know how to focus a shot. I never have a problem obtaining focus and with modern AF nobody should. I also don't wish to pretend I was focussing on a different part of the shot, I focus for the area I want when taking the shot.

So as I said, a gimmick for very casual camera users. The photography 'community' are interested in IQ, camera performance etc,. not 1MP shots where the focus subject can be moved.
 
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ernesto said:
This was in the context of the comment "I am amazed that the photography community hasn't paid any real interest in this technology."

i.e. people who know how to focus a shot. I never have a problem obtaining focus and with modern AF nobody should. I also don't wish to pretend I was focussing on a different part of the shot, I focus for the area I want when taking the shot.

So as I said, a gimmick for very casual camera users. The photography 'community' are interested in IQ, camera performance etc,.
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I see what you are saying, but all the fancy AF stuff is a solution to the problem of obtaining focus. Yes people can use this to get focus but this would be a better solution to the problem. Smaller cheaper lenses etc etc.

Now I wasn't into photography during the digital switch-over but I would be willing to bet that people said "The photography 'community' are interested in IQ" and such like when the first digital sensors came out.....
 
It's an answer looking for a problem. The technical background is bordering on a con, full of errors, exagerations and marketing hyperbole. It maybe has some use for scientific applications, but there's no money in that...

Edit: comparisons to the birth of digital are way off beam. It's nothing like that at all. It's more like Nimslo, the 3D revolution that never was. Google that one ;)
 
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HoppyUK said:
It's an answer looking for a problem. The technical background is bordering on a con, full of errors, exagerations and marketing hyperbole. It maybe has some use for scientific applications, but there's no money in that...
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Wow, strong words there.

I'll admit I haven't done any research on this but it sounds like you have. I still think capturing that extra information from the light will lead to added possibilities.

EDIT: If you say so. I'll get busy googling in a couple of weeks. Just need to get this pesky degree out the way first. 3D has come back, so even if light-field goes away... it may return...
 
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whom said:
I am with you on this. It will be the norm one day.

Capturing that third dimension will allow SO many things. Imagine how useful for film makers?! So easy to switch focus between people's faces in a scene etc. I bet it could even make quite good sudo-3D.
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Nope, like I said, you can do this for free with software already. Such as the FREE software on my iPad which let's you select the focal point and works VERY well.

And it's free.

Did I say free?

And, you arnt lumbered with stupidly massive file sizes.

And it costs NOTHING!
 
odd jim said:
Nope, like I said, you can do this for free with software already. Such as the FREE software on my iPad which let's you select the focal point and works VERY well.

And it's free.

Did I say free?

And, you arnt lumbered with stupidly massive file sizes.

And it costs NOTHING!
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I have no idea what you are talking about. The iPad does not work as a light field camera. Having a tiny sensor and big depth of field and then blurring stuff is not the same.
 
maybe I am an idiot (highly likely) but I don't see what the difference is in those shots I saw in the link. What exactly is it suppose to capture that conventional DSLR + PP can't do ?
 
Surely it's not the ability or otherwise to get the right part of the shot in focus in camera that counts (for a good photographer), it's the ability to adjust things and obtain a range of results afterwards that's valuable? Just one example; stacking shots to obtain a fully in focus macro shot without a shallow DoF, and without having to take several shots of a (possibly) moving subject?

In the same way as being able to adjust WB post camera, or anything else, being able to adjust focus after the event is valuable.

Yep, it makes it easier for those with less skill to obtain the results that a great photographer can, but that's what technology does. The pro's just have to up their game to compensate, possibly by using the new tech in ways the average Joe can't/won't.
 
whom said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. The iPad does not work as a light field camera. Having a tiny sensor and big depth of field and then blurring stuff is not the same.
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It's done via software. Import and edt.

It's the same principle. Shoot at f/11 with whatever camera you choose, import to iPad, then you can choose the focal point through the software.

It does what the lightfield does. For free. Hense why I can't see the hardware taking off.
 
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odd jim said:
It's done via software. Import and edt.

It's the same principle. Shoot at f/11 then you can choose the focal point through the software.

It does what the lightfield does. For free. Hense why I can't see the hardware taking off.
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No it does not do the same. Physically it is impossible. Go and have a look at these pictures.
http://www.lytro.com/living-pictures/111771

Then try and get anything half as good with your ipad.
 
whom said:
No it does not do the same. Physically it is impossible. Go and have a look at these pictures.
http://www.lytro.com/living-pictures/111771

Then try and get anything half as good with your ipad.
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The principle and augmentation is the same, as is he end product. I would upload if I could but I'm restricted to mobile Internet at present as I'm between houses.

The end result is actually better as the iq is consistent with the DSLR you shoot it with, rather than the lightro which tbh has iq issues.
 
odd jim said:
The principle and augmentation is the same, as is he end product. I would upload if I could but I'm restricted to mobile Internet at present as I'm between houses.

The end result is actually better as the iq is consistent with the DSLR you shoot it with, rather than the lightro which tbh has iq issues.
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I don't think you even remotely understand the principle of light field photography. Are just winding me up.

Have I have been duped by a troll?

internet-trolling-the-anti-social-network-L-yJogxa.jpeg
 
I'm always interested in technology but I wont be buying one of these soon as it's just not ready yet IMVHO. I do however think that at some point in the not too distant future this could well be a well established technology. It could be niche, a more bottom end consumer product or it could be widely adopted or even high end, at this point, who knows? Years ago who'd have thought that digital would push film to the margins?

PS. I'm not too worried about large file sizes or processing power as it's highly likely that capacity and power will increase in the future so that this technology wouldn't be an issue.

PPS. And no, ipad or anything else like that in its current form is not the same thing at all.
 
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whom said:
Wow, strong words there.

I'll admit I haven't done any research on this but it sounds like you have. I still think capturing that extra information from the light will lead to added possibilities.

EDIT: If you say so. I'll get busy googling in a couple of weeks. Just need to get this pesky degree out the way first. 3D has come back, so even if light-field goes away... it may return...
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Start with this, Ren Ng's 2006 Stanford University dissertation. It's the least smoke and mirrors outline of light field technology I've seen from Ren Ng. You can drive a coach and horses through it's basic assumptions and understanding of how they relate to modern use http://www.lytro.com/renng-thesis.pdf

The whole thing centres around The Focus Problem in Photography, section 1.1 which a) doesen't exist today, and b) even if it did the Lytro camera does not offer a solution.
 
HoppyUK said:
Start with this, Ren Ng's 2006 Stanford University dissertation. It's the least smoke and mirrors outline of light field technology I've seen from Ren Ng. You can drive a coach and horses through it's basic assumptions and understanding of how they relate to modern use http://www.lytro.com/renng-thesis.pdf

The whole thing centres around The Focus Problem in Photography, section 1.1 which a) doesen't exist today, and b) even if it did the Lytro camera does not offer a solution.
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Thanks for these, I will get reading once the 6th of June has come and gone. And the hangover for that matter.

Got my own stinking project report to write first. This degree better bloody be worth it.
 
if this technology is real where information for all depths are recorded in focus (instead of the mentioned software trick on the ipad) then i can really see this take off.

consider technology like this in a rangefinder camera with full frame sensor. all you have to do is point and shoot, then choose your point of focus afterwards.
 
HoppyUK said:
The whole thing centres around The Focus Problem in Photography, section 1.1 which a) doesen't exist today,
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Really? On what planet and with what technology?

I suppose if it doesn't exist today there's no need and indeed no possibility of improving the very cameras we have today. I feel so good that I'm living at a time that represents the absolute pinnacle of the technology :lol:
 
odd jim said:
Nope, like I said, you can do this for free with software already. Such as the FREE software on my iPad which let's you select the focal point and works VERY well.

And it's free.

Did I say free?

And, you arnt lumbered with stupidly massive file sizes.

And it costs NOTHING!
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Which app is this? And how does it know what is at the desired focal point within the frame? Yes you can tap on a point and have everything else blurred, but how does it know what else, that's at the same distance from the camera, to keep in focus?

In other words, how does it know how far from the lens each item in the shot is?
 
Southdowns said:
Which app is this? And how does it know what is at the desired focal point within the frame? Yes you can tap on a point and have everything else blurred, but how does it know what else, that's at the same distance from the camera, to keep in focus?

In other words, how does it know how far from the lens each item in the shot is?
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I don't know how it works, it's called Picshop. You simply tap where you want the focus point to be and it does the rest. It's actually very basic but for the consumer, 90% won't notice the difference.

My point being, the result can easily be achieved through very simple software. Consumers won't care about the rest.
 
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odd jim said:
I don't know how it works, it's called Picshop. You simply tap where you want the focus point to be and it does the rest.

My point being, the result can easily be achieved through very simple software. Consumers won't care about the rest.
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Hahaha you're a good troll. I normally can restrain from replying....

Well then why own a DSLR if your iPad can take normal pictures?
 
whom said:
I don't think you even remotely understand the principle of light field photography. Are just winding me up.

Have I have been duped by a troll?
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Lol no I know the principle of this, and it's way too over complicated for a consumer application, which is why as it stands I don't think we'll see this implemented via hardware, but software which is far less complicated and nearly as effective.
 
whom said:
Hahaha you're a good troll. I normally can restrain from replying....

Well then why own a DSLR if your iPad can take normal pictures?
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Oh dear.

I'm not a troll and I resent the suggestion.

If you bothered to read my posts, tell me where I said you TAKE the photo with an iPad???
 
No what I meant was just because something CAN take a picture doesn't mean there isn't a market for something that does it BETTER. Same goes for light field cameras on the assumption your ipad can do but not very well.

But it can't anyway. It cannot. It's a trick.


odd jim said:
Lol no I know the principle of this, and it's way too over complicated for a consumer application, which is why as it stands I don't think we'll see this implemented via hardware, but software which is far less complicated and nearly as effective.
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If you did understand it you would soon realise that it cannot be done by software.
 
I don't see how you can do this with an existing conventional device as all you're doing is throwing some picture elements out of relative sharpness. It's difficult to get anything out of the DoF with a phone camera but assuming that you could you couldn't put it back in the DoF with a phone app. The point of light field cameras is that you can change the point of focus. Possibly not in absolute terms, possibly so, I really don't know what will be possible but I can imagine it being up to the standard of stuff we use today like hyperfocal focusing which of course isn't getting everything in focus to three decimal places but is good enough for many to follow it almost religiously. Like hyperfocal technique, light field may be good enough.
 
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I agree with both of you, but my point which has been missed is that the future commercially, for most consumers is in quick and cheap software rather than the expense of a lightro setup.

I know scientifically they are wholly different, yet produce similar results.

What works commercially, expensive and complicated or quick, easy and cheap??

I just don't see a commercial market.
 
The problem is that lytro has a small sensor and a relatively small aperture. As a result the dof is pretty big anyway. So the tech doesn't really have a chance to shine.

And NO an iphone cant do the same thing. It doesn't have a lightfield sensor !
 
Yes, a phone app although not the same thing may be good enough too.

Will the software work with bigger files from the likes of the cameras we use? I'd be interested in seeing what is possible, would the same results be possible in Photoshop and others if throwing enough time at expertise at it?
 
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