Light/flash advise

[scott199]

Hi all
Using a Nikon D500

Just wanted some advise/ideas for larger flash heads/strobes or such.

I’ve never really played with a flash, I do have a Godox speed light I used a few times for water droplets.

I Work with HGV’s trucks and today we had a chap come round to do a shoot and he was using some Bowen’s 1200 things (I think) and I really, really enjoyed helping and seeing the pics he could get compared to me, basically his lighting was so much more controlled than I can ever manage.

So I’d like some advise on what to buy, roughly what do I need to look at power wise, that’s not going to kill my bank manger.

Any thoughts

 

[Sky]

A quick search will reveal many threads on this subject. There are a couple of active ones on this subject running now.

 

[scott199]

I did a few searches and read a bit but most seem to be regards to studio type work.

I was more looking for help on the outdoor stuff and such on larger truck type scenario’s

 

[Garry Edwards]

It's a broad subject that needs to be narrowed down . . .
1. What types of subject are you planning to shoot?
2. Indoors, outdoors or both?
3.. If indoors, how large is the available space?

 

[scott199]

It's a broad subject that needs to be narrowed down . . .
1. What types of subject are you planning to shoot?
2. Indoors, outdoors or both?
3.. If indoors, how large is the available space?

Sorry thought I explained that better in my first post.

HGV (trucks/lorries)
out doors

 

[Garry Edwards]

I did a few searches and read a bit but most seem to be regards to studio type work.

I was more looking for help on the outdoor stuff and such on larger truck type scenario’s

Your latest post crossed with mine.
That's ambitious, and because the flash heads will need to cover a large area and will need to be a long way away from the subject, you'll need a lot of power and even with about 4 of these
https://www.lencarta.com/godox-ad1200-pro-1200ws-portable-pack-and-flash you'll probably be limited to fairly overcast lighting conditions - bright sunlight will be pushing it.

So, that's probably a reasonable starting point plus of course, light stands and light modifiers.

 

[scott199]

Your latest post crossed with mine.
That's ambitious, and because the flash heads will need to cover a large area and will need to be a long way away from the subject, you'll need a lot of power and even with about 4 of these
https://www.lencarta.com/godox-ad1200-pro-1200ws-portable-pack-and-flash you'll probably be limited to fairly overcast lighting conditions - bright sunlight will be pushing it.

So, that's probably a reasonable starting point plus of course, light stands and light modifiers.

Thanks, but way out of budget for me, what if I concentrate on areas instead of the whole thing, so smaller areas and more pics, kind of just cab(front) and then rear and poss more parts of the sides ?

Would I get away with smaller units if I get them closer ?

 

[Phil V]

Thanks, but way out of budget for me, what if I concentrate on areas instead of the whole thing, so smaller areas and more pics, kind of just cab(front) and then rear and poss more parts of the sides ?

Would I get away with smaller units if I get them closer ?

You’ll need masses of power to compete with the daylight, remove daylight from the equation (indoors or shooting at dusk) and you dramatically cut dow the amount of light you need.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Thanks, but way out of budget for me, what if I concentrate on areas instead of the whole thing, so smaller areas and more pics, kind of just cab(front) and then rear and poss more parts of the sides ?

Would I get away with smaller units if I get them closer ?

Yes, that's probably the best way forward.
It's all about the distance that the flash has to travel, the angle of reflectance and the area that the flash has to cover, so limiting yourself to smaller physical areas would make life much easier.
Perhaps a couple of these https://www.lencarta.com/godox-ad400-pro-hss-ttl-portable-flash-head-wistro or these https://www.lencarta.com/visico-5-hss-ttl-400ws-portable-studio-flash-head - virtually the same thing but at a much better price - plus a couple of really large softboxes, and stands.

That's if you want to shoot regardless of the existing weather conditions, but if you limit yourself to really dim light then it's much less power-intensive.

And the third way is basically light painting and a lot of Photoshop work, the results can be excellent but personally I think that life's too short to avoid spending that amount of time on post processing.

 

[scott199]

Thank you, the second one looks ok, cheaper so in theory I could maybe get 2 or 3

And yes ideally I’d like to shoot when I had time, regardless of weather/sun/cloud

I also seen these AD600bm and they seem to be around £450 but no idea why they would be cheaper than the AD400, older model maybe ??

 

[Phil V]

Thank you, the second one looks ok, cheaper so in theory I could maybe get 2 or 3

And yes ideally I’d like to shoot when I had time, regardless of weather/sun/cloud

I also seen these AD600bm and they seem to be around £450 but no idea why they would be cheaper than the AD400, older model maybe ??

Older model, no TTL, but absolutely usable. In fact in your shoes I’d strongly consider them over the newer TTL versions.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Older model, no TTL, but absolutely usable. In fact in your shoes I’d strongly consider them over the newer TTL versions.

I agree. Godox, having destroyed nearly all of their competition, are on a roll. They have about 3 major product launches each year, each with extra features (because some people like lots of features) and each new model is more expensive than the last. The AD600 BM model is a good choice.

Be aware that 600 Ws is just half a stop more powerful than 400 Ws.

 

[scott199]

Older model, no TTL, but absolutely usable. In fact in your shoes I’d strongly consider them over the newer TTL versions.

Sorry, but could you explain why you would in my position ?
Certainly not being funny, just wondering why or if you’d explain please ?

 

[Phil V]

Sorry, but could you explain why you would in my position ?
Certainly not being funny, just wondering why or if you’d explain please ?

You want power for large subjects, the AD600BM is the best bang for buck* you’ll get new.

*Literally

 

[rick448]

I have the AD600BM and use it more than any of my TTL lights. In fact it is rare I use any of mine in TTL unless on camera for shots which are dynamic and I am not able to set up a manual exposure consistently.

 

[scott199]

You want power for large subjects, the AD600BM is the best bang for buck* you’ll get new.

*Literally

Thank you I see, less money more power

 

[scott199]

I have the AD600BM and use it more than any of my TTL lights. In fact it is rare I use any of mine in TTL unless on camera for shots which are dynamic and I am not able to set up a manual exposure consistently.

To be honest i Wanted TTL but I suppose I’ll learn to use it manually I suppose

 

[Garry Edwards]

To be honest i Wanted TTL but I suppose I’ll learn to use it manually I suppose

TTL wouldn't be of any use for your planned shots. It isn't entirely a gimmick, it can be useful for some high-pressure shots where there's very little time to think and even a tiny computer can be useful, but for carefully planned shots with more than one flash, it's manual all the time.

 

[scott199]

So prob a ad600 (non TRL) would better than a newer Ad400

But then the Visico you listen above, 2 of them would be around the same as 1 x 600

So two of those or 1 x 600 with a hope to get another one day ?

 

[Garry Edwards]

So prob a ad600 (non TRL) would better than a newer Ad400

But then the Visico you listen above, 2 of them would be around the same as 1 x 600

So two of those or 1 x 600 with a hope to get another one day ?

The Visico is a seriously underrated piece of kit from a very good, long-established manufacturer. The only problem with it, as with all brands, is that it needs a dedicated radio trigger that only communicate with its own make. What this means in effect is that if you go with Visico then you'll be pretty much forced to stay with them for any further purchases (although other makes can of course act as slaves)

The same applies to Godox and all other makes, but Godox has the advantage of a much bigger range of flashes.

 

[Phil V]

To be honest i Wanted TTL but I suppose I’ll learn to use it manually I suppose

TBH TTL is more or less a gimmick on large flashes. I love TTL shooting events with constantly changing subject distances, but once lights are on stands, and subjects are also in fairly fixed positions, TTL is pointless, a disadvantage as much as anything.
And no one is realistically carting AD600’s in a dynamic environment

 

[Garry Edwards]

TBH TTL is more or less a gimmick on large flashes. I love TTL shooting events with constantly changing subject distances, but once lights are on stands, and subjects are also in fairly fixed positions, TTL is pointless, a disadvantage as much as anything.
And no one is realistically carting AD600’s in a dynamic environment

Yes. TTL is, for most people most of the time, just another of those marketing bullet points that make products more appealing to people but which have very limited benefits. This thread is an example (with a small flashgun) where the photographer didn't realise that TTL produced a weird, unwanted result https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/ttl-vs-manual-difference.723310/#post-8919600

Going off at a tangent, I can see why you like trucks. They don't interest me subjectively, although I've always enjoyed driving them, and other large machines - other people collect sensible things, I've collected driving licences - there's something special for example about driving our biggest agricultural tractor, a Case 270, which is about as big as they come, and climbing up those 5 steps just to get into her . . . She's a working machine and despite her height she's always covered in mud, but last week I had to visit my youngest son at work, he's chief mechanic at a large tractor etc dealership and everything there is spotlessly clean. I was impressed by the neat rows of immaculate tractors and other machines, all parked in perfect symmetry and gleaming. If I wanted to photograph rows of these machines I wouldn't need any lighting, with the right weather conditions and in fact lighting such a large scene would be virtually impossible anyway.

But, if I wanted to photograph an individual machine well I'd be tempted to use natural light for the general illumination and to use some powerful off-camera flashes just to do a Heineken - to put light in places that the sun couldn't reach. That would restrict me to the "right" lighting conditions and so wouldn't be the answer for a pro, but would be an option for you.

And, it goes without saying that although tractor units will need a fair bit of lighting, the job will become much more challenging if they have a trailer too.

 

[Scooter]

But, if I wanted to photograph an individual machine well I'd be tempted to use natural light for the general illumination and to use some powerful off-camera flashes just to do a Heineken - to put light in places that the sun couldn't reach. That would restrict me to the "right" lighting conditions and so wouldn't be the answer for a pro, but would be an option for you.

Tim Wallace shoots a lot of trucks, aeroplanes etc and this is exactly what he does for outside shots - ambient light with accents from one hand-held, actually quite moderate (~600J) flash head on a pole. He reconciles the lack of power by using a standard reflector (or sometimes a magnum) rather than soft-boxes and standing in close with the light. Both he and the light are in these shots, but not where the light is going of course, so it's an easy job to mask in each highlight shot in post.

Tim does produce tutorial videos for KelbyOne, however there are some glimpses of his technique on Instagram:-

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CMroeVEJTXh/

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CMrocabpVEx/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMroZA3pQt5/

He's produced his own sunset on this grey day here too (although the shadow on the finished composite isn't from the example shot shown in the middle post)

He'll very often nip out with a small traffic cone (the cone is a size reference point) and photograph the runway from the same height too. Subject is then cut out and pasted onto this, along with the shadow shape, and some stock mountains and sky. https://www.instagram.com/p/CMRai6VpoN0/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ_CoHUJsKW/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ8l8pdpRoD/


Mind you - most of his truck work is produced in a studio bouncing light from a fleet of Arri tungsten spots off a very large cove (i.e. an actual cove that curves overhead too)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLMkbaEp7pZ/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CIGXB95JCKu/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHvh4L6JO6G/

 

[mike weeks]

Michael Sewell has a simple way to deal with it https://www.sewellshouse.co.uk/blog/portfolio-items/vehicle-photography-lancashire/

Mike

 

[scott199]

Thanks for all the advise and help.

Just to confirm something, I currently have the Godox X-pro trigger, I assume the non TTL Godox ad range, can the power be adjusted from the x-pro or is it walk over an manually adjust power ?

 

[rick448]

Thanks for all the advise and help.

Just to confirm something, I currently have the Godox X-pro trigger, I assume the non TTL Godox ad range, can the power be adjusted from the x-pro or is it walk over an manually adjust power ?

They can be adjusted just fine with a compatible trigger.

 

[scott199]

They can be adjusted just fine with a compatible trigger.

Thank you