Lighting Chrome objects

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Hi everyone, I hope you may be able to help me with a lighting problem that is driving me nuts!
I have some chrome tankards and hip flasks to photograph and they are an absolute nightmare.
I've tried various studio set ups, but none have done the job. The objects in question just reflect everything.
The internet has an array of contradictory advice, none of which has worked for me.
If any body has some advice on how to eliminate the reflections I would love to hear from you.
Attached is a picture of my best efforts (try not to laugh)
Cheers
Shazland
 

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You can't eliminate reflections, and if you could, then the result would be so dead and flat that nobody would want to look at the photograph - the trick here is to control the reflections. There are various ways of doing this, none of them are 100% satisfactory and we usually end up combining techniques.

Bearing in mind that what you have here is effectively a mirror, obviously it will reflect everything that it sees, so one method is to make sure that it can only see the things that you want to see, i.e. it can't see you, your camera, anything else in the room. A simple way of doing this is to stick it in a light tent/cube, light passes through the cube to produce soft, virtually shadowless lighting, and all that can be reflected is the walls of the cube. Get a light cube that has a translucent front panel, these have a small slit in them, the camera lens goes through the slit so the only external thing that can be reflected is the camera lens, and this is easily retouched out later. A more professional approach would be to use a tilt/shift lens, so that not even the lens is reflected.

Light tents de-skill the job but the results are usually pretty flat and uninspiring.
A more professional approach is to control the reflections by using a very large light source so that although you inevitably end up with a specular reflection (a reflection of the light source) that reflection is soft and diffused - the jargon term for this is a diffused specular highlight - and far from being bright and dominant, it is translucent, so you see through the reflection to the subject. I wrote an article showing exactly how this is done, and it's in our learning centre, but right now that section of our website is down. I'll post a link to it once that problem has been sorted out.

Your particular subject is a difficult one, in the article I photographed some shiny peppers and tomatoes, a difficult subject because, like your tankards, they have complex convex shapes, and what this means is that the light source needs to be several times the size of the subject.

In my article, I showed the shot without editing, because that's the only way there is of providing honest guidance, but in the real world you're going to have to do a bit of retouching as well.
 
You can't eliminate reflections, and if you could, then the result would be so dead and flat that nobody would want to look at the photograph - the trick here is to control the reflections. There are various ways of doing this, none of them are 100% satisfactory and we usually end up combining techniques.

Bearing in mind that what you have here is effectively a mirror, obviously it will reflect everything that it sees, so one method is to make sure that it can only see the things that you want to see, i.e. it can't see you, your camera, anything else in the room. A simple way of doing this is to stick it in a light tent/cube, light passes through the cube to produce soft, virtually shadowless lighting, and all that can be reflected is the walls of the cube. Get a light cube that has a translucent front panel, these have a small slit in them, the camera lens goes through the slit so the only external thing that can be reflected is the camera lens, and this is easily retouched out later. A more professional approach would be to use a tilt/shift lens, so that not even the lens is reflected.

Light tents de-skill the job but the results are usually pretty flat and uninspiring.
A more professional approach is to control the reflections by using a very large light source so that although you inevitably end up with a specular reflection (a reflection of the light source) that reflection is soft and diffused - the jargon term for this is a diffused specular highlight - and far from being bright and dominant, it is translucent, so you see through the reflection to the subject. I wrote an article showing exactly how this is done, and it's in our learning centre, but right now that section of our website is down. I'll post a link to it once that problem has been sorted out.

Your particular subject is a difficult one, in the article I photographed some shiny peppers and tomatoes, a difficult subject because, like your tankards, they have complex convex shapes, and what this means is that the light source needs to be several times the size of the subject.

In my article, I showed the shot without editing, because that's the only way there is of providing honest guidance, but in the real world you're going to have to do a bit of retouching as well.


Thank you for taking the time to respond Gary! I would be really interested in reading the article you wrote. Please do post the link to me when it is up again. I have tried the light cube and I agree, the results are flat and uninspiring, and the items don't look chrome anymore, they need some reflection.
 
make a black fabric tent, and have a strip softbox to give a single highlight reflection
That's another way of doing it, and it's a valid method. A variation of that is to do the opposite - stick it in a white light tent and put a piece or probably two of black card inside the tent so that the create black reflections in the right places. I used to do this when photographing chrome saucepans and similar for mail order firms, where what they wanted was consistent and fairly striking results that cost very little in time to produce.
 
Chrome has no color, only what it reflects.
The problem with the black environment is that the reflections (chrome) will be black other than where lit, and it is much harder to expose "black" as light grey (chrome) w/o loosing highlights (lighting). The problem with the white environment is that the chrome will all be "white" and the lens will show. If you have a shift lens and the surface is pretty flat you might be able to eliminate the lens showing, but if the surface is curved it will just move the reflection around.

Because they are highly reflective and curved, I would make a white surround camera side (like you did, just much larger/more complete) and photograph it from a long distance with a long FL... that will make the reflection of the lens smaller and easier to remove. And you are lighting the white surround, not the chrome object. Desired shadows are created with "negative lighting"... black foam-core/paper. Basically, you create a light/dark environment for the chrome to reflect instead of "lighting" the object itself.
You might be able to get decent results if you have a uniformly white room which you illuminate (the white surround camera side)... you'll still need to cloak the camera/tripod/etc.
 
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Chrome has no color, only what it reflects.
The problem with the black environment is that the reflections (chrome) will be black other than where lit, and it is much harder to expose "black" as light grey (chrome) w/o loosing highlights (lighting). The problem with the white environment is that the chrome will all be "white" and the lens will show. If you have a shift lens and the surface is pretty flat you might be able to eliminate the lens showing, but if the surface is curved it will just move the reflection around.

Because they are highly reflective and curved, I would make a white surround camera side (like you did, just much larger/more complete) and photograph it from a long distance with a long FL... that will make the reflection of the lens smaller and easier to remove. And you are lighting the white surround, not the chrome object. Desired shadows are created with "negative lighting"... black foam-core/paper. Basically, you create a light/dark environment for the chrome to reflect instead of "lighting" the object itself.
You might be able to get decent results if you have a uniformly white room which you illuminate (the white surround camera side)... you'll still need to cloak the camera/tripod/etc.
Yes. I would add to that a bit, I once had quite a big job (weeks of solid work) photographing cutlery, and my approach to this was to use large flats, 8' x 4' polystyrene sheet, positioned to reflect the light on to the subject at the right angle. These were positioned just far enough away to light them, in other words as close as possible. Light from 2 or 3 flash heads was bounced off of these flats, so that they became the light source, i.e. the knives received no light directly, just this reflected light, and I also added some 'random' black reflections from Cinefoil, stuck to one of the flats. It worked especially well because the polystyrene flats had a textured surface that reflected onto the knives, it was too subtle to be recognisable but it made them look even more expensive, which is the trick that we need to play with product photography:)

Later though, I photographed a range of hunting knives, some of which had a subtle Damascus pattern, and that method didn't work for those, they required the method that I used for my article.

Both Steven and I have mentioned a tilt/shift lens - never actually tried it with a modern camera but I doubt whether there is enough lateral movement for it to actually work well, even with a flat surface. Now, shifting the front standard on a view camera is another matter entirely, but not many people have one of those.
 
Both Steven and I have mentioned a tilt/shift lens - never actually tried it with a modern camera but I doubt whether there is enough lateral movement for it to actually work well, even with a flat surface.
I use a 24mm PC-E (w-w/o TC's)... I can shift far enough for things like a cell phone, but it usually results in the object being recorded smaller (using the periphery of a wider FOV). It's not a great solution, but I've used it...

With curved surfaces, forget it...
Hmmm, anyone ever try photographing the reflection of the object in a mirror instead? Could that work to remove the camera w/o adding the mirror? Just thinking...
 
Thanks for all of your feedback! I have had another go using some of the advice you have given me (unfortunately I am on a bit of a tight deadline with these now). The pictures are definitely better, but I think I need a lens which enables me to stand further back. I have always used an 18-55 mm lens for this type of work, it just works for me, but I really need to think about investing in a lens with longer focal length that can do what my trustee 18-55 can. Does anyone have any ideas? Tight budget though, I only do this as a part time pocket money maker.
 

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For this kind of stuff a longish macro lens (90mm+) is very useful... I use a Sigma 150mm frequently, but it's not cheap. Maybe the Tamron 90mm or a different older lens used (Tamron 180mm).

But, generally I work closer and not farther... unless absolutely necessary.
 
Tight budget though, I only do this as a part time pocket money maker.
You could give adapters and older lenses with extension tubes a shot.

Why do you think you need a longer lens? Is your camera in the way of your lighting equipment?
 
Diffuse the light source. If it is light through a window then close on side of the curtains. Hanging up a sheet may help.
 
Thanks for all of your feedback! I have had another go using some of the advice you have given me (unfortunately I am on a bit of a tight deadline with these now). The pictures are definitely better, but I think I need a lens which enables me to stand further back. I have always used an 18-55 mm lens for this type of work, it just works for me, but I really need to think about investing in a lens with longer focal length that can do what my trustee 18-55 can. Does anyone have any ideas? Tight budget though, I only do this as a part time pocket money maker.
Yes, that shot is better - in part - but it lacks definition that's there in your original shot. I suggested earlier that you added something black (a piece of Cinefoil or black card) to create a black reflection, and if you had done that then the shot would be much more interesting and would have much more definition.

You may only be doing this as a part-time pocket money maker, but if you're taking money then I'm sorry, but it needs to be better than this.
As for a longer lens, personally I use my f/2.8 fixed aperture 80-200mm zoom for most product shots, and a longer lens definately does help, but it is very, very secondary to the lighting.
For product photography, where you will almost always be shooting with the lens well stopped down, an expensive lens isn't needed.
 
Yes, that shot is better - in part - but it lacks definition that's there in your original shot. I suggested earlier that you added something black (a piece of Cinefoil or black card) to create a black reflection, and if you had done that then the shot would be much more interesting and would have much more definition.

You may only be doing this as a part-time pocket money maker, but if you're taking money then I'm sorry, but it needs to be better than this.
As for a longer lens, personally I use my f/2.8 fixed aperture 80-200mm zoom for most product shots, and a longer lens definately does help, but it is very, very secondary to the lighting.
For product photography, where you will almost always be shooting with the lens well stopped down, an expensive lens isn't needed.

Thanks Gary - Funny enough I did use the black card, but struggled a bit on where/how to place it. If you could offer a bit of advice on this I would appreciate it.
I don't know how you feel about this but I find my some of my clients want the moon on a stick for about 50p. Always querying invoices etc and trying to hammer me on the price. It's all very well and good telling me if I am taking money for this job then it needs to be better, but you haven't seen the rest of the work I have done for this company, which is bloody good and extremely cost effective for them. Thanks for the advice on the lens!
 
OK - there are two distinct ways of using a black card.
1. At each side, just out of shot. What this does is to act as a light absorber, i.e. it does the exact opposite of a reflector placed in the same place, instead of adding light, it substracts it, making the edges darker which creates interest and improves the definition of the shot.
2. Somewhere near the camera, so that the black card is reflected in the product. This just makes it look more dramatic, it's the right thing to do for many shiny products but it isn't something that you would always do. My personal approach is to always do what I think is best, but to also take an alternative shot, and let the client make the choice.

Sorry, but if your clients want too much for too little, there are only 2 things you can do...
1. Educate them, pointing out that good photography costs money but increases their sales. Over the years, I've worked for Companies that understand that, and who are only interested in getting the right images so that they can sell them. Many haven't even asked what they will cost.
2. Dump them.

The 3rd option, of producing work for too little, is one that won't help you in any way.
 
That's a great help Gary, thankyou!
I never thought of putting the card actually near the camera. I tried placing it inside the light cube on either side, but for some reason it didn't work. I had A4 sheets of card, maybe they weren't big enough?
I have informed my client that these items are difficult to photograph and the amount of time it takes to photograph them to his spec is going to be reflected in the final cost and he has backed off a bit. I keep getting clients like this and have dumped a couple in the past. Finding the right type of client is a tough game!
 
Another way to look at it, is you're being paid for a valuable learning experience. Shooting shiny stuff is quite common in commercial work and it's not easy, but now you know what's what, next time you'll be able to go straight to it and get a good result in a fraction of the time. Another string to your bow.

Photographing a sliver tea set was one of my first projects at college - light tent, black reflectors, shapes and angles. All good knowledge that applies to all sorts of work, and I've never forgotten it :)

Edit: Dulling spray can be handy for difficult reflections that are hard to get rid of http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-Line-40...ee-/182196943983?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 Use sparingly, only on small areas as it makes shiny chrome look like brushed stainless steel. Or 'shop it ;)
 
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The interview for a job with the Gallerias Preciados in madrid in the late 50's ended with my being asked to shoot a silver trophy cup. The studio was totally blank with every thing stored away.
There was a great shortage of reflectors but many floods and spots.
As shooting silver is more about shooting what is reflected into it than the surface itself. I lit the room surfaces with no light directly on the cup. with just a cut out reflector card covering the camera reflection , and a judicious huff on a front reflection . Processing was equally problematic with unknown, film and chemicals. I completed the task in under half an hour using a single sheet of 5x7 film. I was appointed the senior photographer. so they must have liked it.
 
The interview for a job with the Gallerias Preciados in madrid in the late 50's ended with my being asked to shoot a silver trophy cup. The studio was totally blank with every thing stored away.
There was a great shortage of reflectors but many floods and spots.
As shooting silver is more about shooting what is reflected into it than the surface itself. I lit the room surfaces with no light directly on the cup. with just a cut out reflector card covering the camera reflection , and a judicious huff on a front reflection . Processing was equally problematic with unknown, film and chemicals. I completed the task in under half an hour using a single sheet of 5x7 film. I was appointed the senior photographer. so they must have liked it.

DIY dulling spray (y)
 
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The interview for a job with the Gallerias Preciados in madrid in the late 50's ended with my being asked to shoot a silver trophy cup. The studio was totally blank with every thing stored away.
There was a great shortage of reflectors but many floods and spots.
As shooting silver is more about shooting what is reflected into it than the surface itself. I lit the room surfaces with no light directly on the cup. with just a cut out reflector card covering the camera reflection , and a judicious huff on a front reflection . Processing was equally problematic with unknown, film and chemicals. I completed the task in under half an hour using a single sheet of 5x7 film. I was appointed the senior photographer. so they must have liked it.
Sadly, those days have long gone - nearly all of the people who were properly trained, i.e. trained on plate cameras to take a single shot, without even the benefit of a polaroid to help them, and with no means of doing any PP work whatsover, are now in their 70's or 80's, like you and me.
These were the days when the lucky ones were able to get a job as a very poorly paid trainee for a few years, with the constant threat of the sack if we made a mistake and wasted a single sheet of film:)

It's never been easier than now, with digital, good lighting and PP.
 
Sadly, those days have long gone - nearly all of the people who were properly trained, i.e. trained on plate cameras to take a single shot, without even the benefit of a polaroid to help them, and with no means of doing any PP work whatsover, are now in their 70's or 80's, like you and me.
These were the days when the lucky ones were able to get a job as a very poorly paid trainee for a few years, with the constant threat of the sack if we made a mistake and wasted a single sheet of film:)

It's never been easier than now, with digital, good lighting and PP.

Gotta move with the times though Garry, and I wouldn't want to turn the clock back. And I'm looking forward to my 70s and 80s :D

As an aside, I was looking at this video https://www.dpreview.com/videos/584...otography-with-the-nikon-d5-professional-dslr demonstrating the AF performance of the Nikon D5. Basically this guy (Michael Clark) is using new technology to give him a commercial edge - a camera that will focus on fast action subjects that would have been impossible a few years ago, plus high-speed sync flash from a pair of Elinchrom Quadra HS heads for extra punch. It's a very effective combo. Michael Clark also did some of the Elinchrom HS marketing pics you may recognise, and get a glimpse of his set-up ;)
 
I don't want to turn the clock back either, life has never been easier. I'm just making the point that, despite everthing that modern technology has to offer, nothing beats knowledge and practice.
 
This forum is great, it's been really helpful! I wish I knew a photographer who has knowledge in working in a studio that could mentor me every now and then but unfortunately I don't. This site is the next best thing!!
I got into this lark by working for a small online clothing company. They needed a photographer so drafted me in and I learnt on the job. When they sold the business I had to make a living so went out on my own. This I hope explains my lack of knowledge in some areas. I really enjoy it though and want to learn more (and not have to go and work for some jerk again) :LOL:
 
DIY dulling spray (y)

Yup!
Dulling spray did not come in till the 6o's from the USA. We made do with huffs, dabbing on putty, and even by filling with Iced water, but that was usually over kill and not one I cared to use.
 
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