Lighting setup for food photography?

[TimSandhu]

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with lighting setups for food photography? Do you use continuous lighting or off-camera flash? Is diffused lighting preferrable? My lighting budget is £300-£400. Is that realistic?

I realise that as with everything else, you get what you pay for but do I need to fork out the premium for say Bowens or Elinchrom stuff or would something like Interfit do as well? It's not something I will be using every single day, but it needs to be rugged & reliable enough to give me consistent results. Any opinions on brands? Good experiences or bad.

I realised I needed to control my lighting after my initial attempts. (please see the link below) .The WB was off somewhat due to the differing light temperatures of light sources in the room (I read that somewhere else in the forum..). I'm learning this stuff as I go

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsandhu/sets/72157611923629031/

Thanks

Tim

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I don't think continuous light would be a good idea, even the coll-running ones would melt most of the stuff in your Flickr set..

I'm sure Garry Edwards will be able to point you in the right direction regarding the most suitable set up...

 

[Garry Edwards]

I can't resist

Let's start with budget. Ask the same question about a car - Is £300-400 realistic? - and the only worthwhile answer is "It depends"
£300 would be enough if you just wanted a car to get you to the shops every now and again.
But you might want to put a little round 0 on the end if you needed a reliable car to get you to work every day or take your kids to school.
And if you need to drive hundreds of miles to a business meeting on a regular basis, impress your clients with your car and not be exhausted when you get there, you might want to put another little round 0 on the end.

And the same with lighting. You can buy a cheap studio lighting kit with inadequate power, variable colour consistency, dim modelling lamps etc (which may be fine for some people for some needs) or you can get something that's capable of producing the quality you actually need for food photography

Your best choice is probably Bron or Profoto, both of which are excellent but expensive. .

Next down would probably be Elinchrom professional (not D-Lite) and here I'm talking about a few generator flashes. Elinchrom are a good choice because they have a very good range of (expensive) light shaping tools available, and it's the light shaping tools that matter. Say £3,000 all in.

Next down would be Lencarta (300 & 600 heads) which don't have as good a range of light shaping tools as Elinchrom but still pretty good, and much cheaper. Say £800.

Right at the bottom of the flash scene you have ... well, never mind them - and even further down the list you have continuous lighting.

Here's a link to a series of lighting themes on anothe forum. Read them all, you'll begin to understand what lighting is all about. You may want to start with 'Playing with food' and 'Creating sunlight in the studio' but every one of them will help you.

You'll see that lighing food is much more complex than most people think, and that although there is no one style or approach that works, most of the good food photography involves very hard lighting, mitigated as necessary with soft fill, and you'll see that backlighting is almost standard.

So, learn the basics before making any buying decisions

 

[TimSandhu]

Thanks for the detailed reply Garry. I appreciate you taking the time to share your views and experience. It's given me plenty to think about and that reading list will keep me busy for a while

 

[glitch]

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with lighting setups for food photography? Do you use continuous lighting or off-camera flash? Is diffused lighting preferrable? My lighting budget is £300-£400. Is that realistic?

Do you have to use artificial lighting? Are you not able to use natural light for any of your work?

 

[TimSandhu]

Glitch, I can definitley use natural lighting and most probably will when it's available. But that's just it - when it's available. Today was really overcast all day. Artificial light can provide the means to be able to shoot whenever you please and with consistent results. At least that's how I see it.

 

[glitch]

Overcast? Surely that's the best conditions for shooting in? I've been at it all day!

Artificial lighting might give you the option of shooting in conditions that would normally be impossible, but I've not really seen any really decent food photography shot under it. Somehow it all looks so dated.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Overcast? Surely that's the best conditions for shooting in? I've been at it all day!

Artificial lighting might give you the option of shooting in conditions that would normally be impossible, but I've not really seen any really decent food photography shot under it. Somehow it all looks so dated.

No single type of lighting has a monopoly, those of us who shoot professionally use just about every type of lighting there is, and we all use studio lighting for the simple reason that it allows us to create literally whatever quality of light is needed.

Daylight can't do that, or at least not easily. Before anyone points out that Ansel Adams shot his fantastic landscapes in daylight, just bear in mind that he often camped out for weeks, waiting for the right light.

As for using overcast lighting for food, that's the one type of lighting that I've never used - my clients want the food to look good!

 

[glitch]

I wasn't even going to suggest that it did. It would be somewhat naive to think that studio lighting would not have a place in a professional photographers studio, but it's also a big investment for an amateur and it was that which made me question the OP about using natural light when available.

So can we see some of your food photography? I'd be very interested in seeing what you'd done and perhaps picking your brains over the subtleties of using studio lighting and expanding upon your other post about the various equipment used and the necessary techniques.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I wasn't even going to suggest that it did. It would be somewhat naive to think that studio lighting would not have a place in a professional photographers studio, but it's also a big investment for an amateur and it was that which made me question the OP about using natural light when available.

So can we see some of your food photography? I'd be very interested in seeing what you'd done and perhaps picking your brains over the subtleties of using studio lighting and expanding upon your other post about the various equipment used and the necessary techniques.

You can see a very small number of my food shots on www.photo.net but the only images that I normally post on the web, for sound commercial reasons, are either shots that I've taken to illustrate my tutorials or shots that I've taken as personal work. In other words, I don't make a practice of showing shots taken for paying clients.

I'm happy to answer questions where I feel I have something useful to say, but my clients interests come first.

 

[glitch]

Okay...

I'm assuming here that whatever you've produced was for clients to use for advertising and promotional purposes, so can you point me in the direction of some of your clients where I can see some of your work?

 

[glitch]

Your best choice is probably Bron or Profoto, both of which are excellent but expensive. .

Just how expensive are we talking about here? I think I've got a copy of Broncolor's latest PDF brochure, but where's the best place to research prices?

Not that I'll be buying, but I just want to shock myself.

 

[Richard King]

Glitch

For professional and commercioal reasons, I'm not going to give an ehaustive list of my website clients.. Why? because they include lots of wedding photographers who are in competition with eachother. The nature of my business is that I am involved heavily with the intricacies of my customers businesses. This almost becomes a consulting role at times.

I Imagine Garry is in the same boat. True commercial photography is very "Commercial" and by publishing a list of clients, Garry may be exposing himself to some price comparisons between clints, or actually loose clents, because he works for a competitor

Thats business

 

[EdMoss]

I lit the food books I've done using 2 speedlites (and lots of diffusers/reflectors) so you don't need an expensive setup.
I had to use this setup as there usually wasn't the room to set up any more lighting and the budget didn't stretch to me getting out the Bowens.

Didn't really matter in the end as the printers destroyed the filesand printed really flat

 

[Richard King]

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with lighting setups for food photography? Do you use continuous lighting or off-camera flash? Is diffused lighting preferrable? My lighting budget is £300-£400. Is that realistic?

I realise that as with everything else, you get what you pay for but do I need to fork out the premium for say Bowens or Elinchrom stuff or would something like Interfit do as well? It's not something I will be using every single day, but it needs to be rugged & reliable enough to give me consistent results. Any opinions on brands? Good experiences or bad.

I realised I needed to control my lighting after my initial attempts. (please see the link below) .The WB was off somewhat due to the differing light temperatures of light sources in the room (I read that somewhere else in the forum..). I'm learning this stuff as I go

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timsandhu/sets/72157611923629031/

Thanks

Tim

To begin, I thought your initail attemt was pretty damm good. Well done. You are rihgt to pursue the flash lighting route, as it is very versatile. The rest is down to style> The point of studio flash lighting is control. And although the lighting in a overcast conservatory is great for some things, it is very variable and not reproducable on a day to day basis.

Food photography is a very variable subject in itself - is it hot, cold, is it a drink, what about the glass. Then you need to consider what the target is for the photography. Packaging is very different to a magazine, which is totally differnet to a website or cookbook

The next thing you need to consider is your realistic shooting environment. You have 2 choices - a food studio - with a food preparation area suiatable foe professional chefs next to your studio working area
Or a Portable studio - You go to the chef and shoot in his environment

In the second case, saftey, durability, ruggedness, portability ar the other massive considerations to any purchases you go for

 

[glitch]

I lit the food books I've done using 2 speedlites (and lots of diffusers/reflectors) so you don't need an expensive setup.
I had to use this setup as there usually wasn't the room to set up any more lighting and the budget didn't stretch to me getting out the Bowens.

Didn't really matter in the end as the printers destroyed the filesand printed really flat

Oh my word... Just been looking through your site and I'm utterly amazed by your food shots. Are you the photographer behind the other 'A taste of' books in the series?

Would you be willing to indulge me with regards to some questions?

 

[glitch]

For professional and commercioal reasons, I'm not going to give an ehaustive list of my website clients.. Why? because they include lots of wedding photographers who are in competition with eachother. The nature of my business is that I am involved heavily with the intricacies of my customers businesses. This almost becomes a consulting role at times.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where I asked you for a list of your clients?

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you telling me that as a commercial food photographer you would not be willing to share who your clients were and what work you'd done for them?

 

[Garry Edwards]

It might be worth mentioning that good food photography is about as 'high end' as it gets. A friend of mine is shooting food at the moment, the actual photography will last about 10 days, not counting the PS work that follows.
Present are
The client
The chef, for the cooked meats involved
The stylist (possibly the most important person)
The photographer
His assistant
And a whole shedload of lighting gear + med format camera with digital back
He's averaging 3 shots per day, with a further 5 hours per image PS work.
The subject? Sandwiches.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where I asked you for a list of your clients?

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you telling me that as a commercial food photographer you would not be willing to share who your clients were and what work you'd done for them?

I think it was me you were asking, and the answer is yes you're right, I will not share any info about my clients.

The shoot I mentioned above involves a close friend who I've known for 10 years. I don't even know the name of his client and wouldn't embarrass him by asking

 

[Richard King]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where I asked you for a list of your clients?

And correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you telling me that as a commercial food photographer you would not be willing to share who your clients were and what work you'd done for them?

I was explaing why I wouldnt - in the same breath it explains why Garry probrably wouldnt too

 

[glitch]

I think it was me you were asking, and the answer is yes you're right, I will not share any info about my clients.

The shoot I mentioned above involves a close friend who I've known for 10 years. I don't even know the name of his client and wouldn't embarrass him by asking

I'm amazed at this level of secrecy. It's utterly ridiculous. I could understand if what you were photographing was never going to see the light of day and was purely for your clients personal use, but this is commercial photography we're talking about here. Surely the whole point is that it's going to be used for advertising or marketing purposes and thus seen by people?

Where's the problem in you either showing me some of your commercial food photography shots or telling me who your clients were so I can then find the product/magazine/book/advert for myself and see your photography in situ?

I was explaing why I wouldnt - in the same breath it explains why Garry probrably wouldnt too

And are you a food photographer?

 

[Garry Edwards]

I'm amazed at this level of secrecy. It's utterly ridiculous.

We've wandered well off topic here but I'll give a (final) answer.
The clients know who is capable of producing what they want. The photographers know which clients are worth pitching to. No photographer I know will ever identify his clients or even admit to knowing them. No client has ever been in my private office because of the risk that I might have a piece of paper lying around that identifies his competitors, which would warn him that his competitor is producing new advertising/marketing material.
FMCG clients, e.g. McDonalds, spend a fortune on advertising & marketing and would drop any supplier they couldn't trust - and you think that clients should be identified on a public forum?:shake:

 

[Richard King]

No, I am a wedding photographer, social photographer, occasional product photographer, a website designer, and in the context of this conversation a businessman

The issue isn't food photography, it is about business and commercial ethics

And before you jump on and say "you are not a food photographer" I have plenty of years of experinece in working with all sorts of photographers accross the board, including commisioning the odd food photographer.

 

[glitch]

We've wandered well off topic here but I'll give a (final) answer.
The clients know who is capable of producing what they want. The photographers know which clients are worth pitching to. No photographer I know will ever identify his clients or even admit to knowing them. No client has ever been in my private office because of the risk that I might have a piece of paper lying around that identifies his competitors, which would warn him that his competitor is producing new advertising/marketing material.

Hang on. We've somehow strayed from you showing me examples of your food photography so I could discuss your lighting techniques with you into a parallel universe where you're made to sign the official secrets act before you can take a photograph.

You originally said;

I don't make a practice of showing shots taken for paying clients

Which makes no sense whatsoever.

In effect you're saying that someone has paid you to take photographs of their food, but you are not then willing to show me those photographs, tell me who the clients are so I can then go and see the photographs for myself or tell me the products or places where I might be able to see your work for myself.

Let's pretend you've taken a photograph of a plate of food for a supermarket. That photograph would have been commissioned for some commercial purpose; either to feature in a magazine, a book, on a website, in an advert, etc.

And you still wouldn't show it to me or tell me who it was for so I could go and find it for myself?

FMCG clients, e.g. McDonalds, spend a fortune on advertising & marketing and would drop any supplier they couldn't trust - and you think that clients should be identified on a public forum?:shake:

I'm sorry, that example has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion.

Have you or have you not got any food photography that you are willing to show me so we can then talk about the lighting techniques employed?

No, I am a wedding photographer, social photographer, occasional product photographer, a website designer, and in the context of this conversation a businessman

None of which has any relevance to the point I was making.

The issue isn't food photography, it is about business and commercial ethics

No, it's about food photography. You took it in a totally different direction.

And before you jump on and say "you are not a food photographer" I have plenty of years of experinece in working with all sorts of photographers accross the board, including commisioning the odd food photographer.

Okay, so tell me this. You've worked with food photographers before, so how did you decide on booking the ones you worked with?

Because going on what you and Garry are saying, food photographers would seem to be unable to tell people about who they have worked for or show off any of their work, making building a portfolio seem somewhat impossible.

All I wanted Garry to do was show me some of his food photography so I could have a discussion with him about lighting set-ups and techniques, as I fully intend to buy into a system in the near future.

But somehow we've got into a situation where commercial food photographers aren't willing or able to show us their previous work or tell us who there clients were/are so we can see it for ourselves. Madness.

Although I'll exclude Edtog from that sweeping statement as he's blatantly proved that's not the case.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Glitch,
I was going to let this rest, but as you won't and as I clearly haven't explained myself properly I'll try again.

This isn't about photography, it's about business, and my business is giving my clients what they want.
And what they don't want is me telling the world that I produce their photography, because if they've found a photographer (or any other supplier) that they're happy with then they don't want their competitors to use the same supplier - and you wouldn't believe the lengths that some people will go to to find out who their competitors suppliers are.

So, whether you think it should be secret or not, the secret isn't mine to share.

Not that I want any of my clients to know about each other anyway, because by not letting them know that I also work for their competitors there is no risk that they will try to pressurise me into giving them info about what their competitors are up to. I lost my largest client (by a considerable margin) once because I made the mistake of being seen coming out of a competitors factory once and refused to give them any info about the people I had been to see.

An obvious benefit to being careful with other people's confidential info is that they know that if I won't discuss other clients with them then I won't discuss them with other people.

But somehow we've got into a situation where commercial food photographers aren't willing or able to show us their previous work or tell us who there clients were/are so we can see it for ourselves. Madness.

Although I'll exclude Edtog from that sweeping statement as he's blatantly proved that's not the case.

With all respect to 'Edtog', he is clearly working in a very different field to me. His food shots (or at least the ones on his website) are ediorial not commercial, and of course there are no secrets there.

Because going on what you and Garry are saying, food photographers would seem to be unable to tell people about who they have worked for or show off any of their work, making building a portfolio seem somewhat impossible.

Totally unnecessary, the advertising agencies know which photographers to talk to.

All I wanted Garry to do was show me some of his food photography so I could have a discussion with him about lighting set-ups and techniques, as I fully intend to buy into a system in the near future.

Even if I was to show you some shots there is very little chance that I would remember exactly how they were lit, I light for effect, not to a formulae. All that I could do would be to look at the shot, 'deconstruct' it and work out what I must have done, and why - and you can do exactly the same thing yourself just by taking a walk along your local high St and looking at the backlit shots in the FMCG takeaways. And no, for the reasons I've already given, I'm not going to tell you which windows to look in

 

[Richard King]

Okay, so tell me this. You've worked with food photographers before, so how did you decide on booking the ones you worked with?

1. Historical. In one instance, the company I was working with historically used a specific food photographer
2. Experience. I liked this guys work, and recommended him to another client
3. Reputation. I have souced images from specific photographers and Libraries, often asking the said photographer to shoot a specific shot
4. Chance. I actually met a pood photgrapher shooting a superb job, who was in the right place at the right time