Local football photos - Advice needed

stb74

stb74

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Name
Scott
Edit My Images
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Folks

I seem to be getting worse rather than better, can you point out where I am going wrong. At the moment I am not too worried about whats in the photos, more about how I get them in focus and looking better and then I will worry about the action.

The weekends game

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Hey Scott, could you post shutter speeds on the first set of pics please.

I think I can guess what went wrong, with regards to the focus but want to get some figures before saying anything else.
 
MackieStaggie said:
Hey Scott, could you post shutter speeds on the first set of pics please.

I think I can guess what went wrong, with regards to the focus but want to get some figures before saying anything else.
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1. 1/400
2. 1/400
3. 1/250
4. 1/250
 
Your shutter speeds are too slow. There is no problem with the focus of the lens, what your are seeing is motion blur (the football in the first pic you posted gave me the suggestion)

As a rule of thumb, a shutter speed of 1/640 should be the minimum you use for sports, some say 1/500 but I think that's too low. I use shutter priority to allow control of my speeds, typically using speeds of 1/800 to 1/1600 now, adjusting the ISO from Auto to a specific setting if needed to help with the light.

Try moving the camera into shutter priority mode the next time out and bump up the speed and you should see an improvement on your next set.
 
Really Gary? You don't condone shutter priority as an easy means to get these shots for a novice?

To the original poster, Gary is hugely experienced here, but I agree that your shutter speeds are too slow and certainly going into shutter priority mode with a shutter speed of 1/640s at the slowest will help no end. I'll leave it to Gary to expand upon his last comment.
 
I'd stick it in Av mode, as wide as I could get 2.8-4 then bump up my ISO until I was consistently getting 800+ which on a bright day like you were shooting shouldn't be hard. Although I am fairly new to sport, one of the big boys will have more wisdom :)
 
Deckard said:
Really Gary? You don't condone shutter priority as an easy means to get these shots for a novice?
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No i dont condone it, not one little teensy weensy tiny bit, it might get him out of a hole and get him a few half decent shots but he will get comfortable with that and accept it as the norm, then when all of a sudden he has to shoot under some different conditions, ie bad light he will be back here again asking for exactly the same advice, how do i get good shots.

So in essence he will have wasted your time, his time and my time as we will be back at the starting point.

Give the right advice first time and it will be the only time, it will then be up to the OP to use that advice as he sees fit or ignore it and do his own thing.

The OP already knows from a thread he started on sports discussion he should be attempting to shoot as much manually as possible
 
Folks

I appreciate all advice and have tried a lot and as Gary has pointed out I am back to where I was and looking for move advice.

I find it hard to get the right settings when the light changes. I read a thread that give you advice on football which now seems to be gone. And from that always set my settings to manual.

But my problem was that I found that either my photos where to bright or too dark and just couldn't seem to get the right mix so I changed to AV which seemed to work for me. But with doing this I have produced some of the shots above which I am trying to correct.
 
Well you really do want to be in total control of the shutter speed rather than letting the camera dictate it for you, so AV is probably the worst mode to use.
 
Well I use Shutter Priority quite a lot in changing light conditions. Though on my 1D3 I can set the camera at a fixed aperture and shutter speed and have the camera bump the ISO up and down to suit.

Some people call this the 'Auto ISO' trick, not sure if its available on your camera though :thinking: but if it is then i'd recommend this for sure.

Obviously under floodlights or overcast (consistent lighting) I always use manual.
 
Deckard said:
Well you really do want to be in total control of the shutter speed rather than letting the camera dictate it for you, so AV is probably the worst mode to use.
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All I can say to that is 'Rubbish', now I will tell you why.

I use a D300s with a 70-200mm f/2.8 and I use AV set to f2.8, then I will set my ISO so that I get a shutter speed of 800-1000.

Now imagine its a nice sunny day and I have got my camera set up and I am happily clicking away and it decides to get very cloudy and I notice that my SS has dropped from 800 to 500 for example so I then just up my ISO till I get back to 800th sec or higer, and all I've changed is one setting.

Take a look at my Flickr page or the Southend RFC website (photos by Dixon) to see the results.

I have a great deal of respect for all the guys on here especially the Pro's, as I have PM'ed and emailed all of them at some point, and have taken on board their advice.(y)

I know Gary or Andy may come along and disagree with my using AV mode and tell me to use manual :LOL:, but it works for me.
 
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AFC said:
Now imagine its a nice sunny day and I have got my camera set up and I am happily clicking away and it decides to get very cloudy and I notice that my SS has dropped from 800 to 500 for example so I then just up my ISO till I get back to 800th sec or higer, and all I've changed is one setting.
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But you got some blurry shots of that cracking goal in the meantime. I'd rather have to adjust my aperture or ISO [one setting too] to suit than worry about the shutter speed, but each to their own.
 
AFC said:
I know Gary or Andy may come along and disagree with my using AV mode and tell me to use manual :LOL:, but it works for me.
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Not at all Martin, to be perfectly honest i only stay with Manual when lighting is consistent, Manual under consistent lighting conditions gives the best results, however if you know light is going to be variable, in and out of shadows, cloud cover etc, etc i see no harm in shifting to AV mode and using auto ISO to maintain the shutter speed. Just keep an eye on the histogram and check for "blinkies"

Manual does give you 100% total control and for the pruists theres simply no other way of shooting, im not a purist though but i would certainally reccomend anyone relativly new should attempt to use Manual mode first.
 
Dont mean to go off tangent here but are you 100% sure your equipment is in full working condition, what lens are you using.
 
This discussion shows why photogrpahy is part art and part science. Any exposure can be achieved through a varity of means.....make the shutter speed twice as long and half the f-stop and out have the same result.

In sports freezing the action is most times the priority so AV mode will work if you keep it set to the largest aperture your lens will allow as this will enable the fastest shutter speed.

Shutter priority will let you control the shutter speed directly.

Manual is best but can be a PITA in changeable conditions outdoors.

You certainly have the kit for it with a f2.8 lens. Good luck
 
Manual would be my first choice.. but manual isnt good for quick changing light as in a sunny day with fast moving clouds.. then i change to Av mode..In fact I use Av mode quite a lot as I am getting more comfortable with my cameras abilities :)

Anyone who uses shutter priority for sports such as football is on a hiding to nothing and especialy on a nice day when you will get stupid apertures .

Deckard.. how much field sport like football or rugby do you do and at what level? Just wondering where this advice your giving is coming from...
 
Guys

Thanks for all the advice from everyone, I was trying to get myself out of a rut as it was getting me down trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and I have lost confidence.

But even though the photos of the last two night matches aren't great 1. because of the settings and two the bad light, the teams have given praise for me getting out and taking them.

Hopefully I can sum this up correctly. Am I right in saying from the advice given from all parties is that whether manual, Av, Tv that

Shutter speed needs to be 1/640 or better
Aperture wide open
Adust ISO accordingly.

Manual mode would be best.
 
stb74 said:
Hopefully I can sum this up correctly. Am I right in saying from the advice given from all parties is that whether manual, Av, Tv that

Shutter speed needs to be 1/640 or better
Aperture wide open
Adust ISO accordingly.

Manual mode would be best.
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Like i said Manual is for purists, it works for me but only on evenly lit days which are few and far between so then its back to AV Mode, todays modern cameras handle most conditions very well in AV Mode

Any pro worth his salt will tell you to forget TV mode, so to summarise, if you choose not to shoot manual then shoot AV, Wide Open and keep shutter speed up as high as youre comfortable with, my preference even in bad light is 1/800th minimum and crank up the ISO but your kit will limit this.

Theres absolutly nothing wrong with AWB either
 
Gary Coyle said:
Like i said Manual is for purists,
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WHAT!!!

and when your sat at the side and two players jump high to head a ball and your in AV mode and all you get is a black blob and a perfect blue sky?

or how about sat near the corner flag and the players come right towards you to celebrate..again your shooting up at mostly sky

not to mention night matches..

yes av is great and I use it a lot... but football has a few situations rugby doesnt.. I know you ahve done footy as well mate but...


Gary Coyle said:
it works for me but only on evenly lit days which are few and far between so then its back to AV Mode, todays modern cameras handle most conditions very well in AV Mode
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100% agree.. I use it more and more.. but if light even.. always manual

Gary Coyle said:
Any pro worth his salt will tell you to forget TV mode,
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Agreed.. I did ask where that advice was coming from..just wrong to suggest tv mode IMHO

Gary Coyle said:
preference even in bad light is 1/800th minimum and crank up the ISO but your kit will limit this.
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I really do have a problem with people suggesting minimum shutter speed.. especialy in tuturials that where on this site.. How can anyone reccomend a shutter speed... it depends on camera crop+focul length.. monopod and conditions.. there isnt a minimum or max.. other than get as fast as you can! :)


Gary Coyle said:
Theres absolutly nothing wrong with AWB either
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Only time I set my WB is in sports halls :)


.
 
Sorry mate, think you misunderstood about the Manual quote, if i can also refer you back to an earlier comment i made about Manual Mode
Manual does give you 100% total control and for the pruists theres simply no other way of shooting, im not a purist though
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What i meant was the purists would say shoot Manual and only Manual and nothing else ever.

As for the player/sky scenario, its something i never came across in footy but its regular in League and Union where theyre jumping for a high ball or for a line out and never had any problems, the League stuff usually had a decent sized stand in the background thouth, i suppose it depends on the stadium youre shooting in

http://gcsports.zenfolio.com/p448615436/h35247daa#h35247daa
 
Much better.

I shoot sports all the time and I use auto-iso in Aperture priority. Nothing wrong with it as long as you set the minimum shutter speed quite high.

I sit on the goal line between all the other pros in the summer time with a huge shadow caused by the stadium right across the pitch. They are constantly flicking back and forward with different settings for the shadowed and bright areas because they use manual and quite often aren't quick enough with their adjustments. I just follow the action and concentrate on my framing.

Do I get incorrectly exposed shots? - Very occasionally, mostly because it's my fault because I expose on the sky :LOL:
Do I get blurry shots? - Hardly ever (y)
Do I think that my skills are better and quicker than a 3grand camera with years of technology built into it? - Of course they aren't

I know some people will dissagree with this, but in changing conditions I like to let the camera do the hard work and concentrate on the action. This works for me, if it doesn't work for you, then don't slate it saying it's rubbish, just do your own thing as you obviously shoot different to me.
 
MrFigjam said:
I sit on the goal line between all the other pros in the summer time with a huge shadow caused by the stadium right across the pitch. They are constantly flicking back and forward with different settings for the shadowed and bright areas because they use manual and quite often aren't quick enough with their adjustments. I just follow the action and concentrate on my framing. .
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You must have some really thick pros down your way :) I dont know any who wouldn't use semi auto in those conditions.. manual is good for constant lighting but pretty poor for changing light or large shadows...
 
KIPAX said:
You must have some really thick pros down your way :) I dont know any who wouldn't use semi auto in those conditions.. manual is good for constant lighting but pretty poor for changing light or large shadows...
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It's generally the older guys who have been around since the year dot and are reluctant to change. Anyone with a bit of savvy has worked out that you get the camera to do the hard work.

I use these camera settings in all lighting conditions for sport. Although it's not quite as severe as a giant shadow, the light in central Scotland is very open to change with the weather conditions.
 
MrFigjam said:
It's generally the older guys who have been around since the year dot and are reluctant to change. Anyone with a bit of savvy has worked out that you get the camera to do the hard work.

I use these camera settings in all lighting conditions for sport. Although it's not quite as severe as a giant shadow, the light in central Scotland is very open to change with the weather conditions.
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Bit like that in Northern Ireland, never constant weather.

Best advice I think I can take from this with my recent pics the way they where was my shutter speed. Not sayting that is by all means the best overall, but by making sure it was fast enough has improved my shots. Now I can concentrate on tweaking these to get better results using the other points of advice.
 
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