Looking for a rangefinder-style small camera

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Ian
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#1
I am looking for a decent small camera for travels - one that can fit into a small bag along with everything else and be pulled out. This is my list of 'wants':

Must have a viewfinder of some description
Around the size of an Olympus Trip - and without the DSLR-style grip
Decent sensor size - ideally 4/3 and above
Aperture down to at least f2.4
Fixed or interchangeable lenses
RAW files

I was looking at the Fuji x20, which is in the right price range, but the sensor seems pretty small - maybe I am being too fussy!

Any thoughts or insight would be really gratefully received.
 
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Oskar
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#3
Fuji X-E1 with 18mm prime lens? I recently got this setup for traveling this summer. Its small, light weight and have large sensor. (also f2.0 if you chose the 18mm prime lens). :)
 
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Alan
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#4
I am looking for a decent small camera for travels - one that can fit into a small bag along with everything else and be pulled out. This is my list of 'wants':

Must have a viewfinder of some description
Around the size of an Olympus Trip - and without the DSLR-style grip
Decent sensor size - ideally 4/3 and above
Aperture down to at least f2.4
Fixed or interchangeable lenses
RAW files
I think there are only five choices at the moment... all APS-C...

Fuji X100s, fixed f2 (I think...?) lens, all the rest are interchangeable...
Fuji XE1.
Fuji X Pro 1.
Nex 6.
Nex 7.

If you are willing to buy used there's always the excellent (and RF) Epson RD1.
 
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Chris
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#5
If the Fuji X20 is in the right price range then you will need to up your budget (assuming you are buying new) to get any of the cameras Alan has listed (which I would agree are probably the only options)
 
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Ian
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#6
If the Fuji X20 is in the right price range then you will need to up your budget (assuming you are buying new) to get any of the cameras Alan has listed (which I would agree are probably the only options)
Yep - that has been my conclusion as well. I think I'll wait and get the X100s.

Thanks everyone for the input.
 
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Terry
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#7
If your only concern about the X20 is the sensor size.... It might still be Ideal for you.
Of course viewed at 100% a good APS sensor will carry a better detail to noise ratio.

However What size out put do to really need. A4 and even A3 prints from an X20 will be Excellent. and viewed at 50% on a screen will seem faultless.

We are easily pushed into the mind set than an image must be at least as good as a digital full frame at 100%. You only have to look at results from scans of your best 35mm film shots, to quickly realise that pre-digital acceptability standards were far far lower than today. (even when compared to X20 results)
 
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Des
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#9
Canon g1x or nikon v1, the nikon has been available at a decent price recently...
 
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Sir will do
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#11
I wouldn't get hung up on sensor size and look at iq instead. Alternatively just go for the Sony rx1 if that is your real concern.

I bought a Panasonic G6 earlier this week to twerp me going until the Olympus Pen e-p5 finally becomes available. Yesterday at Wimbledon I used it in anger for the first time, and compared to my Nikon dSLR of old I was surprised how little I used the inbuilt excellent viewfinder. I was using an old Tokina 80-200 lens to give me extra reach, and focus peaking from rear screen was incredibly comfortable.
 
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Sir will do
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#13
IQ is pretty much directly related to sensor size although how hung up a person is about it is up to them of course.
As much as good exposure is? As much as getting it properly framed is? As much has having decent glass is? Sure it can be a factor for getting the last bit of extra detail out. For the fast majority of people a well taken photo will look great regardless of sensor size.

I'll get off soap box, I just think there are way too many people worried about technicalities of equipment. The spec race is not helpful in my opinion. Yes given everything the same I agree you can get a bit extra. Hence I suggested the RX1, nice big sensor in a small body.
 
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Chris
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#14
As much as good exposure is? As much as getting it properly framed is? As much has having decent glass is? Sure it can be a factor for getting the last bit of extra detail out. For the fast majority of people a well taken photo will look great regardless of sensor size.

I'll get off soap box, I just think there are way too many people worried about technicalities of equipment. The spec race is not helpful in my opinion. Yes given everything the same I agree you can get a bit extra. Hence I suggested the RX1, nice big sensor in a small body.
Getting good exposure and framing is a given. Doesn't matter what sensor you use if the focus is out or exposure totally wrong.
I have owned many cameras in the last few years and to me the difference between the IQ of a small sensor camera and an APS-C is very apparent and I am much more satisfied with APS-C. What the vast majority of people think is totally irrelevant to me.
I take it you are using a £40 compact as you are not worried about the technicalities? Oh no, you are using a brand new model of camera, why not use an old E-P1 that you could have picked up for under £100 as it would give a good enough photo for the vast majority of people wouldn't it?

And an RX1 at £2000? Is that a serious suggestion to someone who is clearly looking around the £500 mark?
 
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Sir will do
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#15
It was, if sensor size truly is that big of a deal. One only has to loom at the rx100 or imo especially the Olympus m43 photos online to see what stunning photos can be made with a smaller sensor. And I haven't even started about iphoneography yet :)
 
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Chris
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#16
It was, if sensor size truly is that big of a deal. One only has to loom at the rx100 or imo especially the Olympus m43 photos online to see what stunning photos can be made with a smaller sensor. And I haven't even started about iphoneography yet :)
Agree, IQ can be great from m4/3 but that is not a small sensor.

And yes in perfect conditions an iPhone can give a good image but that image would still be better on an APS-C camera. How much better and whether it matters is up to the user but it is better nonetheless.

Like I said, I have tried a lof of cameras and to me the APS-C sensor gives me the most pleasing images.
 
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247
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Ian
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#17
Thanks for the help everyone. I think I may well wait and get the X100s - it looks like such a great camera. I tried out the XE-1 - didn't like the electronic-only viewfinder and interchangeable lenses are not important on this.
 
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