Looking for extreme macro option

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Chris
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I have recently started to improve my macro and close up photography and as with everything have become a little addicted. I am now wanting to explore some more ultra macro photography and have spotted the Raynox range of adaptors which seem to get very good reviews, my question is 2 fold.
  1. Does anyone here have any experience with them and what are your thoughts
  2. Currently I have a Sigma 150mm Macro lens which has a 72m thread. The Raynox filters seem to be made to fit a maximum 62mm thread, could a use a 72-62mm step down ring to attach it?
As always thanks in advance
 
Not of any help I'm afraid, but is your lens the newer OS model or the older one? If the latter, how do you find it?
 
If you are a Canon user then the MPE-65 is the only way to go:);)
 
Not of any help I'm afraid, but is your lens the newer OS model or the older one? If the latter, how do you find it?

Yes it is the newer OS version, and I find it great. If you look at my Flickr you will find some shots I've taken (I always tag which lens I've used)

A set of bellows will get you extremely close. And are very flexible.
Thanks I keep wondering how they work

If you are a Canon user then the MPE-65 is the only way to go:);)
Yes I am a Canon user and yes I've looked at it, but not sure how I'd get on with not being able to adjust focus at all. Also trying to justify the cost for something so specialist. Thanks for the pointer though, secretly Id love one :)
 
yes, you could use the raynox, the actual rear screw thread is 43mm i think, so you might lose full coverage

teleconverter would get you 40% extra (1.4tc) at same distance, and not lose depth of field

tubes also work, but need quite a few at 150mm i guess
 
Yes I am a Canon user and yes I've looked at it, but not sure how I'd get on with not being able to adjust focus at all. Also trying to justify the cost for something so specialist. Thanks for the pointer though, secretly Id love one :)

With extreme macro, you don't adjust focus, only move back or forwards to achieve focus once the mag is set.
 
With extreme macro, you don't adjust focus, only move back or forwards to achieve focus once the mag is set.
Presumably why a rack mount is useful for fine adjustment when the camera is on a tripod...
 
I have ended up with an MP-E. Though for starters why not try a reversed kit lens with 1.4x TC for around 4-5x mag and add tube for a little more.

Works best at 24mm-35mm setting... try it out if you don't like it you haven't lost much. If you do like it and are getting truly addicted then upgrade to MP-E.

Do you have a crop camera or this planned for the 5d mk III? If so you may get some vignetting.
 
It's not just about buying the MP-E 65. To get the very best out of it you need either the twin flash units or a ring flash. At such extremely close range the lens can cast its own shadow.
 
It's not just about buying the MP-E 65. To get the very best out of it you need either the twin flash units or a ring flash. At such extremely close range the lens can cast its own shadow.

Not true... ring flash and MT24ex need heavy diffusion to be any good... and many many great Macro photographers I know use a single flash unit. Macro photography is about the light and quality of light indeed.
 
To get the best out of that lens you need flash at the end of the lens. I have a friend who specialises in macro and he has spent a long time developing diffusers for his twin flash set up. And as he produces results that are up there with the best I've ever seen. Good enough for Canon to ask him to test their MkII ring flash when they brought it out. And that's good enough for me. Each to their own however.
 
To get the best out of that lens you need flash at the end of the lens. I have a friend who specialises in macro and he has spent a long time developing diffusers for his twin flash set up. And as he produces results that are up there with the best I've ever seen. Good enough for Canon to ask him to test their MkII ring flash when they brought it out. And that's good enough for me. Each to their own however.

Join in the macro section and have a look at the macro setups... not only can ringflash and MT24ex can be placed at the end of the lens :)

A recommendation don't advise something based on what someone has told you. My friend works in a space center but I'm no expert on space :D
 
To get the best out of that lens you need flash at the end of the lens. I have a friend who specialises in macro and he has spent a long time developing diffusers for his twin flash set up. And as he produces results that are up there with the best I've ever seen. Good enough for Canon to ask him to test their MkII ring flash when they brought it out. And that's good enough for me. Each to their own however.
With a single light setup, it's still best to get the light at the end of the lens (or more accurately the diffusion layer) to improve diffusion efficiency; it's the same principle, so most will physically move the flash to the end (via some form of bracket) or channel the light towards the end if the flash is being kept on the hotshoe. Also, can you encourage your friend to come and give us some tips in the macro section? :)

@ChrisHeathcote Sorry I can't answer your 2 specific questions (I've never used achromats) although the results I have seen from people who do use them are very reasonable, and i wouldn't advise against getting one. Can you be more specific around what you mean by extreme macro? We can help advise the most cost effective ways of getting there, but it will vary for 1-5X, <10X or >10x. I'm sure there is a calculation we can do to determine if the raynox will get you were you need. A better way of thinking about it is what are the subjects you are intending to shoot and do you want an outdoor kit or something for indoor studio work?
 
I have ended up with an MP-E. Though for starters why not try a reversed kit lens with 1.4x TC for around 4-5x mag and add tube for a little more.

Works best at 24mm-35mm setting... try it out if you don't like it you haven't lost much. If you do like it and are getting truly addicted then upgrade to MP-E.

Do you have a crop camera or this planned for the 5d mk III? If so you may get some vignetting.
Thanks Bryn, yes it will be on the 5D3. Unfortunately I sold he kit lens I had with my 60d so lens wise I have, 24-70, 50 mm, 70-200, 120-300 & 150 mm. I also have 1.4 & 2x tc so I might give the 2x a try to get 2x with the 150 mm.

As to what level of magnification, not really sure as ive only recently started gettig into macro, but some of the shots of insects eyes, flower stamen are the kind of thing I'm after.

With regards to lighting I have also been looking at the Yongnuo ring flash, currently I use my 430ex2 with either an ettl cord or yn622c fitted as I tend to prefer OCF anyway.
 
Yongnuo RF is very good and capable when diffused see below post for how to do it if you do go for it...

Show us your macro rig

The major issue with RF and MT24 is how it mounts on front of lens (stops you getting low POV) may not be an issue for a 150mm lens though.

I use a 560ex III (bloody heavy) and 622's and a straight and curve bracket with flash being diffused currently. If your whipsnade way in near future we can meet up and you can have a go with a few of my bits and see how I setup. I have a few of my setups posted on Flickr too under macro testing/venus testing/MP-E testing albums.

For your 150mm I dont think you need to take your flash off camera either a large 23x 23cm softbox may do.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Camera-Fl...886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d15fd7cce
 
To get the best out of that lens you need flash at the end of the lens. I have a friend who specialises in macro and he has spent a long time developing diffusers for his twin flash set up. And as he produces results that are up there with the best I've ever seen. Good enough for Canon to ask him to test their MkII ring flash when they brought it out. And that's good enough for me. Each to their own however.
This is not necessarily the case. My preference is ring flash but equally fantastic results can be obtained by other types as well. The manner of the diffusion is the main key for the best light distribution.
 
Join in the macro section and have a look at the macro setups... not only can ringflash and MT24ex can be placed at the end of the lens :)

A recommendation don't advise something based on what someone has told you. My friend works in a space center but I'm no expert on space :D

I've seen his work right from when he first started up to the present day and very little of what I've seen in the macro thread on here matches his work. The speed at which he works and his comments regarding DIY set ups are well worth listening to. As I said whatever you're happy with stick with it. For me if I want to take advise on a subject then I'll take it from someone who can produce the goods and also explain how and why.

Looks like there's two subjects you're no expert on then.
 
I've seen his work right from when he first started up to the present day and very little of what I've seen in the macro thread on here matches his work. The speed at which he works and his comments regarding DIY set ups are well worth listening to. As I said whatever you're happy with stick with it. For me if I want to take advise on a subject then I'll take it from someone who can produce the goods and also explain how and why.

Looks like there's two subjects you're no expert on then.

Put up or shut up.... Who is this friend or is he a friend of a friend who knows someone who knows a thing or two. I checked your Flickr friends and no one you follow is a macro photographer from what I can see now he may not be on there but I would like to see this persons work at least see what he has to offer in setups or advice.
 
Put up or shut up.... Who is this friend or is he a friend of a friend who knows someone who knows a thing or two. I checked your Flickr friends and no one you follow is a macro photographer from what I can see now he may not be on there but I would like to see this persons work at least see what he has to offer in setups or advice.
nommer-popcorn-gif.gif
 
I've seen his work right from when he first started up to the present day and very little of what I've seen in the macro thread on here matches his work. The speed at which he works and his comments regarding DIY set ups are well worth listening to. As I said whatever you're happy with stick with it. For me if I want to take advise on a subject then I'll take it from someone who can produce the goods and also explain how and why.
There are a number of reasons for using a DIY alternative, not the least of which includes cost. Canon's offerings in the twin or ring light section retail at between £600-£700 each so if that's a bit outside your budget it's well worth the time and effort to engineer your own solution, especially if you have the required components in your kit already. Furthermore, the off-the-shelf offerings have their limitations in certain situations (size and weight are key factors along with ground clearance when getting into extreme macro). As a consequence there is a large community of "DIY" macro photographers that share knowledge and innovations, and I for one heartily encourage it. It sounds like your friend is one of the lucky few who either gets to do his work professionally or subsidised by certain camera companies. While his advice may be valid you might have to interpret it within your own personal constraints. I would most definitely ignore anyone who tells you not attempt macro if you don't have the best gear for it.

Anyway, as someone who is always looking to learn and progress I have a genuine interest in knowing who this person is and have a look through his work if you would care to share.
 
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Ive just seen this contraption on fleabay which seems interesting for £20, although not sure how the arms would cope with the weight of a flash and trigger, although I think it may look at something like this rather than a ring light. thinking the ability to have 2 flashes on YN622's with the 622CTX to control them, I've already got all the flashes and triggers so just need a suitable bracket

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Octopods-...831?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41756500b7
 
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Anyway, as someone who is always looking to learn and progress I have a genuine interest in knowing who this person is and have a look through his work if you would care to share.

Me too. I love seeing outstanding macro work.
 
Ive just seen this contraption on fleabay which seems interesting for £20, although not sure how the arms would cope with the weight of a flash and trigger, although I think it may look at something like this rather than a ring light. thinking the ability to have 2 flashes on YN622's with the 622CTX to control them, I've already got all the flashes and triggers so just need a suitable bracket

Can you share the link to the bracket.

http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/brackets__supports/manfrotto_330b_macro_flash_bracket/7448_p.html

These are sturdy as hell. (below)

http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/brackets__supports/novoflex_armk_flexible_arm_26cm/8398_p.html

I have one and have forgotten to try it dohhhh. :facepalm:

Have a look at speed graphic website or SRB they have lots of macro bits and bobs. :D
 
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A bellows combined with a shorter FL (50mm) lens will allow you to get 1:1 to as much as 6:1 (when extension equals FL you have 1:1). Plus you can set it for maximum magnification (i.e. 6:1) and trade that off for greater working distance at a lower net magnification.

Tubes won't be of much help with the 150mm... the long FL requires a lot of extension to make a difference. I have the Sigma 150 (earlier version)... I have combined it with TC's/adapted it to a small sensor camera (crop factor and more DOF) with good results.
I prefer the small sensor camera option as it reduces the need for focus stacking and increases the working distance for a given composition.
 

And all of it supported by your hot shoe? Think of the leverage force.

I bought one of these before moving on to a dedicated macro flash. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dual-Flas...262?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item418a56621e
 
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@orionmystery might be able to help there.

Not sure it would be strong enough. Any particular reason you want dual flash?

I would say try 1 first and then add a second.
 
@orionmystery might be able to help there.

Not sure it would be strong enough. Any particular reason you want dual flash?

I would say try 1 first and then add a second.
More a case of having the option really. I tend to do a lot of OCF anyway and tend to use multiple lights quite a bit, so it's possibly a bit of carry over. I would tend to use them on separate channels so that I could use one flash at a lower power to fill a bit
 
And all of it supported by your hot shoe? Think of the leverage force.
No tthe brackets connect to the tripod mount, you trigger the flash through a cable or wireless alternative.

John Hallmen uses something similar so I would say it's well worth consideration:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhallmen/15744475133/
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7367/16171603549_72f960fca8_b.jpg

He has, however, paired it with the smaller 270ex (II?) so there's no guarantee it's strong enough to support full sized flashes. Worth a go though.
 
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I have been a champion for Raynox for many years and find them superb, I have just tried the DCR 250 on my M.Zuiko 72mm 40-150 f2.8 pro using a 72-67mm stepdown ring and can see vignette at 80mm which is 160mm in FF terms. You maybe better going for a set of tubes which will increase you magnification to around twice lifesize as you will get vignette with the Raynox. Let us know which way you go and how the result turn out. Most of the time simple is better, large brackets and massive diffusers are ok for some things but try poking that amount of gear into a bush or the face of a fly and you will be disappointed to find the subject has buggered off elsewhere, not to mention needing arms like Popeye to carry it around all day. ;)
 
I use a Raynox with my Sigma DP3 on occassion and it's a very good quality 'magnifier'. For what it cost I'm very happy with it.
 
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