Low cost (SH) body and lenses for surveillance work

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ferrox

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John
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Hi all

We have a persistent issue with vandalism in our local area with the culprits getting away with causing huge amounts of damage and distress for lack of compelling evidence.

I have access to an elevated vantage point some 250 yards from the main target of their unwanted attention (a children’s play area) and so have an ideal opportunity to get some really good ‘mugshots’ for the police to action (or ignore!)

Without spending a fortune what would you recommend in terms of brand, body and lenses?

My budget it possibly laughably low at £200 - £250 but there appears to be a number of ‘possibles’ on eBay in that range - problem is I’m clueless on what to look for.

Any advice great fully received.
 
Is the vandalism taking place during the day or at times of reduced light?
 
I really wouldn't bother - you may find the anger of the offender's turns towards you and your property.
 
Fraser Euan White said:
I really wouldn't bother - you may find the anger of the offender's turns towards you and your property.
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Bobsyeruncle said:
I can see the headlines now.......man arrested for taking photos of children's play park from his bedroom window....
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It does seem more hassle than it's worth, and why should you do the work for the Police? It is they who should set up surveillance, if they can't be bothered then, well, they're not bothered and won't do anything about the footage you produce anyway. It's unfortunate, but all you can do is continue to report the vandalism and hope the cops get off their asses and monitor the situation. Call them when it's occurring.
 
For daylight - buy a bridge camera with silly long telephoto lens - no-one will care if the image actually looks good.

For low-light, forget it.
 
Sadly it’s the “why should I?” attitude that, while understandable to a degree is allowing these yobs to cause huge amounts of damage unchallenged in our local area.

I’m familiar with how the law stands on taking photographs of individuals under these circumstances so know that so long as these images are shared only with the police for the purposes of identifying those involved in criminal acts I have committed no criminal or civil offence in so doing.

The police, it seems have ‘bigger fish to fry’ and no resources to deploy on complaints of this nature so given the choice between doing something to help them put a reasonable case to the CPS or do nothing and watch as these morons systematically break up anything that’s not bolted down - I’ll do the former.

Perhaps if you ignore the intended purpose and simply impart the knowledge which I’m sure you have?

All I’d like to know is the model number and make of a good, reliable second hand DSLR with a decent long lens capable of taking photographs of individuals at up to 300 yards from a tripod with enough clarity to identify facial features.

Low light capability would be a ‘nice to have’ but not essential. Video capability would also be good.

Thanks in advance for constructive advice!!!
 
ferrox said:
Sadly it’s the “why should I?” attitude that, while understandable to a degree is allowing these yobs to cause huge amounts of damage unchallenged in our local area.

I’m familiar with how the law stands on taking photographs of individuals under these circumstances so know that so long as these images are shared only with the police for the purposes of identifying those involved in criminal acts I have committed no criminal or civil offence in so doing.

The police, it seems have ‘bigger fish to fry’ and no resources to deploy on complaints of this nature so given the choice between doing something to help them put a reasonable case to the CPS or do nothing and watch as these morons systematically break up anything that’s not bolted down - I’ll do the former.

Perhaps if you ignore the intended purpose and simply impart the knowledge which I’m sure you have?

All I’d like to know is the model number and make of a good, reliable second hand DSLR with a decent long lens capable of taking photographs of individuals at up to 300 yards from a tripod with enough clarity to identify facial features.

Low light capability would be a ‘nice to have’ but not essential. Video capability would also be good.

Thanks in advance for constructive advice!!!
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It's not a 'why should you' as in why you personally should, but more a dig at the cops in your area. Honestly, you should not have to! But the situation is what it is ...

A bridge camera with as much zoom as possible is your best bet and has been suggested. Your budget is very limiting otherwise, especially if you plan to capture night shots. How much are you willing to pay to take this on? even with basic bridge camera with plenty of zoom and good enough quality to crop in for details you're probably going to have to spend a bit more. Nail a price here and we can just look at actual options, I know you said your budget in the OP but is anyone else going in on this with you? Other concerned residents perhaps?
 
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In all honesty the NV equipment required is far too cost prohibitive and from my experience with such kit in the field sports world, wouldn’t give the image clarity either so I’m realistically only looking at cameras that will shoot quality images in daylight.
As to ‘Bridge cameras’ it’s a term I’m not familiar with (as I said, I’m not a photographer of any kind beyond the use of a mobile phone)

A ‘digi-scope’ phone adaptor to use on a telescope (I do have a good quality opticron spotting scope) also occurred to me but the setup seems unduly clumsy and prone to disturbance in the phone to eye cup area...

All of this is very frustrating as in an ideal world the police would scoop up the culprits, arrest and charge them, the CPS would sentence them to six weeks in a YOI where, being the delinquent offspring of middle class liberals they would be beaten to a pulp by truly ‘bad men’ within hours of arrival and therefore - not likely to reoffend!...but we don’t live in an ideal world sadly!

Any specific suggestions on suitable SH bridge cameras on eBay for example?...
 
Best get them reported for mean tweets or hate speech towards some minority if you want to see any action taken. Anything else including acid attacks and stabbing are pretty much OK with the "authorities" now. I really wouldn't bother with any of that is it just won't lead to solution, or worse. The root cause needs to be solved and you will be long way down the rabbit hole there.
 
Golly.

300 yards away and you want the face clear? Possibly in low light too?

I don't know if a tripod is going to help much as I assume you'll want to keep the shutter speed up to prevent the culprits being smeared by motion blur. Increase the shutter speed to freeze the culprits and maybe a tripod wont be a necessity? Other than that I really don't know what gear to suggest as used DSLR's are occasionally cheap but add a long lens and the budget is almost certainly bust... but I'll have a go at suggesting something else... Years ago I bought a hand held video camera that records onto cassettes. It has an amazingly long zoom lens on it and at light levels as low as twilight in town it records enough detail to make people recognisable. You'll probably find something like that on evil bay for peanuts. Maybe this could be an option rather than a DSLR or bridge? I used mine to get footage of some vandals targeting my parents. I plugged it into a VHS video cassette recorder and that gave me 8 hours record time, I set it up pointing out of a window and it worked a treat.

By the way, a bridge camera is a camera that looks like a DSLR but it has a fixed lens, often a long range zoom, and usually has a much smaller sensor than a DSLR. The best are reportedly good but as you can imagine the best are also quite expensive.

I know it's upsetting and frustrating but maybe another approach could be to leaflet the surrounding area and maybe write to local schools detailing the upsetting nature of this vandalism, asking for information and asking that it just stops... Maybe someone or their parents could develop a conscience and stop it.

I think the police could well take an interest if you do get any pictures or footage. My sis has cctv and the police are forever turning up and asking if she's caught something that'll help.

Hope something can be done.
 
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The identities of the (predominantly) teenagers causing all the trouble is already known to the police, and indeed to a great many local residents - myself included!

The problem is that ‘proof’ is needed as without this any complaint is simply an unsubstantiated allegation without any evidence beyond a destroyed play-park.

The parish infrastructure is too slow and bureaucratic to get CCTV up fast enough plus it would likely be ‘blinded’ within a short time of being commissioned so the best (only) solution is as far as I can see the one I’m suggesting.

Also, if I can get compelling enough footage the police will need a bloody good reason not to report it for prosecution and pick up the idiots concerned!
 
ferrox said:
The identities of the (predominantly) teenagers causing all the trouble is already known to the police, and indeed to a great many local residents - myself included!

The problem is that ‘proof’ is needed as without this any complaint is simply an unsubstantiated allegation without any evidence beyond a destroyed play-park.

The parish infrastructure is too slow and bureaucratic to get CCTV up fast enough plus it would likely be ‘blinded’ within a short time of being commissioned so the best (only) solution is as far as I can see the one I’m suggesting.

Also, if I can get compelling enough footage the police will need a bloody good reason not to report it for prosecution and pick up the idiots concerned!
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The bridge cam I linked above also does 4K video and has image stabilization for less shakey footage. here's a review from a well trusted camera review site: https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic-lumix-fz80-fz82-review/
 
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ferrox said:
Many thanks for the link

Would that get me enough zoom to get a decent image of a face at 250 yards do you think?
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It's about as good as you can get for your budget, the image quality will be decent yes, and it's got a lot of zoom behind it. I added another post above to add a review on it which might help you decide
 
From that same review here's the effect of the zoom capabilities, pretty impressive I would say, at least in good lighting
lumix_fz82_coverage_1890px-945x345.jpg


From it's widest angle to fully zoom on the church, pretty sure it can pick out a face even from that distance
 
Cagey75 said:
From that same review here's the effect of the zoom capabilities, pretty impressive I would say, at least in good lighting
lumix_fz82_coverage_1890px-945x345.jpg


From it's widest angle to fully zoom on the church, pretty sure it can pick out a face even from that distance
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Holy smokes!...that should do it!

I’ll take a look at one tomorrow...thanks for the help and advice - you may just have helped a lot of very unhappy children get their play park back in working order!
 
ferrox said:
Holy smokes!...that should do it!

I’ll take a look at one tomorrow...thanks for the help and advice - you may just have helped a lot of very unhappy children get their play park back in working order!
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I really hope it works out, I can't stand bullies or vandals either, grew up in an estate full of them! I remember our playground getting wrecked when I was a kid, it was devastating for us. There was monkey bars, swings, slides, round-a-bouts etc all destroyed by teens at the time. Nobody did a thing to stop them, in the end the council just tore it down and cemented over it as if that was problem solved. So best of luck (y)
 
I hope it has been explained to you that your pictures will be shown to the offender's if they are used as evidence and they will also know your name.
 
Fraser Euan White said:
I hope it has been explained to you that your pictures will be shown to the offender's if they are used as evidence and they will also know your name.
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Why would they know his name? There's such a thing as witness protection
 
Fraser Euan White said:
I hope it has been explained to you that your pictures will be shown to the offender's if they are used as evidence and they will also know your name.
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This can definitely be an issue but I do wonder if it's a serious concern with what sounds like upsetting but in reality pretty low end vandalism.

Thankfully all I've ever been exposed to is pretty low end stuff but once after an incident away from home the offender was outside my home the following morning. Now who do you think gave them my name and address if not the legal system? On another occasion the parents of someone I'd held until police arrived (again away from home) where knocking on the door the following day (again, where the flip did they get my details from if not from the legal system) but this time it was a much better experience as they were full of apologies.
 
woof woof said:
This can definitely be an issue but I do wonder if it's a serious concern with what sounds like upsetting but in reality pretty low end vandalism.

Thankfully all I've ever been exposed to is pretty low end stuff but once after an incident away from home the offender was outside my home the following morning. Now who do you think gave them my name and address if not the legal system? On another occasion the parents of someone I'd held until police arrived (again away from home) where knocking on the door the following day (again, where the flip did they get my details from if not from the legal system) but this time it was a much better experience as they were full of apologies.
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I guess you can't trust anyone, they are not supposed to give out witness information.
 
Ok - lets try and get realistic in respect to the OP's post:

The first thing to note is the Police grade incidents on the response that is required and the resources available.

(1) The children's play area I assume is owned by a Local Authority and not by the OP.
(2) This is a crime against property and not against a person (assault or threat of harm to a person).
(3) It is for the owners of the Property to make a complaint of damage to that property to the Police; nobody can make that complaint on their behalf.
(4) What the OP is experiencing is anti-social behaviour which he is entitled to make a complaint about.
(5) Depending on the Police Area he lives this will be given a very low grade in respect to response; there is no threat to life or harm to a person - it is unlikely that a response would occur on the evening in question as patrols will be tied up with more urgent matters.
(6) If you provide photographs of offenders then you will have to exhibit these photographs; this means providing a statement to the Police.
(7) The statement you provide becomes disclosable to the Defence - this means your name has to be disclosed but not your address which is written on the reverse of the statement and the Defence have no access to this.
If you are not prepared to have your photographs used as evidence then their is no point taking them.

I personally think, although it is very community spirited to try and alleviate the problem, you could well be wasting your money trying to get these yobs on film.

Have the owners of the play area made an official complaint of damage to the Police?
 
Cagey75 said:
I guess you can't trust anyone, they are not supposed to give out witness information.
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A cop once repeated my name and address in a loud voice just yards from the offender. I kid you not.

The worst case in my little world was with a friend of one of my sisters who was warned off by the police from reporting the theft of a motorbike. The next day the thief (well known local thug/thief/gangster) repeatedly rode the bike past their house to rub it in, presumably the police had immediately told him they'd called them. My conclusion is that some police are bent or have some sort of vested interest in having complaints against some crims dropped and some don't have their IQ automatically increased when they put on a uniform.
 
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