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shiato storm

shiato storm

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so, anyone got one and have you got 4 or 8 cores? pondering something. Got a mbp the other week (not new one but prev. rev. - old discounted stock from shop :) )...
so wanting to get a desktop mac too, just wondering what 8 cores do that 4 can't. 'future proof' ?
 
Probably a little bit of future-proofing as there isn't that much software out there yet that uses 8 cores.
 
If you just want a desk top to compliment your MBP have you thought of Imac... do you need the grunt of the Mac Pro, I have no idea of your requirements but I was in your boat a year ago and I found the Imac to be sufficient for my needs and it is plenty quick enough.

Just a thought...
 
well, already have 24" screen, could use the expandability of the pro...and don't like the glossy screens of the imac after checking them out. just not my cup of tea to work on
 
I run a Macbook pro 17" hires with 4Gb 2.5GHz and my main machine is a Quad core Mac Pro with 6Gb Ram. Snow leopard which is due out next year is designed to be very thread happy and rather good with multi cores.

At the moment the Quad core is not really far behind the eight core unless you run certain software. Using Photoshop I doubt you will see a difference.

With Mac pros it is all about the balance between components have a look at my site (I haven't yet upgraded it with the new laptops though). Anyway get the lowest ram and smallest HD and 3GHz eight core. Then upgrade the ram to 4 x 2Gb. This will cost you less than the 3.2 and be quicker. The difference in speed between the 3.2 and 3.0 is 6.7% on processor speed but as the computer will rarely be waiting for the processor it is nearer 3% which you would not even be able to detect !! Anyway the speed boost of having 4 identical FB-DIMMS is 15% (over 2 FB-DIMMS). If you use 8 FB-DIMMS it will be 10-12% quicker than 2 FB-DIMMS so still a big boost and the extra RAM can be more of a boost than the configuration.

As for HDs if you stick a 1Tb Samsung F1 in as the boot drive you will get a marked improvement over the drive fitted as standard.

You can fit a velocirapter drive into a Mac Pro but it will not fit in one of the standard drive bays because the power and data connectors are in the wrong place BUT you can fit it into the 2nd optical bay using a 5.25" to 3.5" drive holder and then connect the data connector to one of the two hidden spare SATA connectors on the motherboard. This will again be faster than the F1 ---- The only problem with the drive fitted in this way is that you cannot boot bootcamp from drive 5 or 6 (which is where it will actually be!)
 
If you want to future proof you'll need the get an 8 core Mac Pro, as I understand it the 4 cores Pros only have one CPU socket, so you would not be able to add another CPU in the future.

One thing to note is that getting a 4 core Pro will save you £320 but a 2.8 Intel Xeon “Harpertown" on it's own is going to set you back £544 from scan, so in fact Apple are giving a great deal on an 8 core Pro
 
Darren just to clarify, your saying a soon as the Mac Pro arrives take out the hard drive fit a new one then reinstall the OS and software. Also 8 1gb dims will be faster than 4 2gb dimms or 2 4gb dimms
 
whiteflyer said:
If you want to future proof you'll need the get an 8 core Mac Pro, as I understand it the 4 cores Pros only have one CPU socket, so you would not be able to add another CPU in the future.

One thing to note is that getting a 4 core Pro will save you £320 but a 2.8 Intel Xeon “Harpertown" on it's own is going to set you back £544 from scan, so in fact Apple are giving a great deal on an 8 core Pro
Click to expand...

Yes this is right the 2nd generation Mac pro Quad cores are fitted with a single Quad core processor and they are missing the second socket so you cannot upgrade. The two machines worth looking at are definitely the 2.8 or 3.0 eight core machines just because the saving is TOO small to justify the loss of 4 cores unless money is tight
 
whiteflyer said:
Darren just to clarify, your saying a soon as the Mac Pro arrives take out the hard drive fit a new one then reinstall the OS and software.
Click to expand...

Yes. MacOS is so easy to install this would be my choice. The cost of upgrading from the smallest drive to the next one up is MORE than the cost of the drive and if you get the 320Gb drive and buy another drive then not only will you save money but you will still have the 320Gb drive which you could use to install Vista or as a backup drive.

If you have never installed MacOS I can talk you though it but it really is an absolute cinch!

whiteflyer said:
Also 8 1gb dims will be faster than 4 2gb dimms or 2 4gb dimms
Click to expand...

No. 2 FB_DIMMS gives you the slowest access time, 4 FB_DIMMS is 15% quicker (due to access time), 8 FB_DIMMS is 10-12% quicker than 2 (so SLOWER than 4) this is due to a slightly increased latency.

HOWEVER the difference is not that big and the extra ram will more than likely make up MORE difference!

I personnally bought 2 x 512Mb in my computer then bought 2x 512Mb + 4x 1Gb all from Kingston giving me 6Gb in total (FB-DIMMS cost a lot more then than now). You can get 2 x 2Gb now for less than I paid for 2 x 1Gb

DO NOT BUY ANY FB-DIMMS OTHER THAN CRUCIAL, KINGSTON OR APPLE. Also do not buy any that do not specifically state Apple Mac Pro PLUS the revision 2 Mac pro uses 800Mhz FB-DIMMS the 1st revision Mac pro uses either 667HMz or 800MHz.

EDIT - ARIA at Manchester are selling the Samsung 1Tb F1 drive (the fastest 1Tb drive in most tests) for £54.95 today !!!!!!!
 
shiato storm said:
well, already have 24" screen, could use the expandability of the pro...and don't like the glossy screens of the imac after checking them out. just not my cup of tea to work on
Click to expand...

I'm with you on all that!

Mac pro has 2 optical bays (and uses cheap full sized PC compatible drives so you can add blu-ray for £150!)

Mac pro has 4 drive bays (plus 2 extra spare SATA connectors)

Mac pro has several PCI-E slots and more USB, FW etc connectors.

I don't like the all in one and hate glossy screens!

If you have a 24" monitor now you COULD plug it into a 24" iMac and run two screens but I would definitely rather get the Mac pro. I wish I had got the Dell 30" monitor rather than the 24" though but at the time it was a choice of (24" Dell 2407 & Nikon AFS 105 mm macro) or 30" Dell 3007 !
 
Apple have a eight core 3.2 in their clearance shop at the moment with £500 off so its the same price as the 3.0 but like I explained above it may be better to spend any extra on more ram, more drives and a better graphic card option (remember photoshop cs4 can make use of a quick graphic card now!)
 
Use quidco for an extra 3% off. Also my Mac Pro was from the refurb store, absolutely no problems with them.
 
The student discount is so good that the discount on my Mac pro 18% was actually MORE than the cost of a night school course for the year !!

If you are going to spend £1749+90 (for the 8800 upgrade) = £1840 then 18% =£331.20

You could certainly book into a course for less than that PLUS

Adobe CS4 is £229 for the design edition for students so here we go.....


Macpro with 8800 + CS4 design + cheap night school course =about= cost of mac pro with 8800 normally!

No brainer......

This is what I would do (or did ish)

£1509 - The 2.8 with 8800

£ 260 - 8Gb from Scan (4 x 2Gb)

£ 229 - CS4

£ 100 - beginners photoshop course :)

less than £2100

If you dont like waste then buy 2x1Gb as well for about £70 and stick them in to give you 12Gb in total OR leave the pre-installed 2Gb out
 
whiteflyer said:
If you want to future proof you'll need the get an 8 core Mac Pro, as I understand it the 4 cores Pros only have one CPU socket, so you would not be able to add another CPU in the future.
Click to expand...

what's stopping you taking out the one cpu and putting a new one in?
 
Yantorsen said:
what's stopping you taking out the one cpu and putting a new one in?
Click to expand...

The Mac pro is a DUAL socket machine with 2 x QUAD core processors giving 8 cores. On the QUAD core version ie the cheap one. They only fit ONE processor which is a QUAD core and the motherboard is not even fitted with the socket for the other making it impossible to fit without work that is beyond even most repair centres.

The family of processors that are fitted to the current revision 2 Mac pro is about to get a new member which is a SIX core chip and as such you could replace the four core with a SIX core (in theory) but thats as good as it will get.

Apple are masters at getting the best pricing from their suppliers and the current price of a Mac pro is about £1749 with 2 2.8GHz xeons. The price of buying 2 2.8Ghz xeons is about £1200+VAT so you are only paying £300 for the rest of the computer **This means that the cheapest 8 core Windows Xeon workstation is actually a Macpro !! ** Because of this it is not actually worth upgrading any processors on Macpros because it is actually cheaper to sell your mac pro and buy a new one. I have a QUAD core revision 1 2.66GHz Mac pro (2 x DUAL core chips). Now if I bought 2 x 3GHz QUAD core Xeons it would cost me £1200 but I could actually sell my Mac pro for £1000 then add another £749 and get a brand new pro !!
 
What exactly is needed to to get the student discount ?

As a shift worker there is no way I could attend a night school course, but could I just enrol not attend and still get the discount.

What type of school/course does it have to be and how do you prove to Apple your on a course.

Cheers
 
whiteflyer said:
What exactly is needed to to get the student discount ?
Click to expand...


Have a kid a Uni/college :LOL:

I'm seriously considering a Mac set up, and I'll take Jelster Jnr with me when I order it.. It's for him, honest !!

Steve
 
I have just rung them up,saying it was for my nephews Christmas present. I think I just need a copy of his student id card for between 6% and 12% discount. I would love to know how Darren got 18% off ;)


Also a question for Darren about screen resolutions. While researching a 24" monitor I have seen Mac mode in a few specs, what this?
I am looking at a Mac Pro with NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
 
whiteflyer said:
What exactly is needed to to get the student discount ?

As a shift worker there is no way I could attend a night school course, but could I just enrol not attend and still get the discount.

What type of school/course does it have to be and how do you prove to Apple your on a course.

Cheers
Click to expand...

I work shifts too ! Basically I have rung Apple each time I have bought a computer and told them I/my kids are students (which we were/are) and they have accepted this and not actually asked for any proof. When I bought machines from the store though they have asked for proof and been shown my wife's NASUWT card and my daughter's acceptance letter or student union card!

So basically any letter or card if you go into the store and over the phone just tell them (in my experience).

My dad got the student discount being on a photo post production course for pensioners which was 10 weeks long for one evening a week and my student discount was for being on a equality course at work which was run by the local college (so I had an enrollment number).

BUT

Adobe are more strict about their discount and you need to be sure because you buy the software THEN apply for the discount at which point they send you your unlocking code. But by then my daughter was doing BTEC art and design at college so clearly was ok. You should be ok if you were doing a photography course but that would depend on what the letter said and I suppose I letter of acceptance on the course would probably do!

AND

When I got the student discount off WACOM I just sent an email of a scan of my daughter's acceptance letter at college to Academia.
 
Jelster said:
Have a kid a Uni/college :LOL:

I'm seriously considering a Mac set up, and I'll take Jelster Jnr with me when I order it.. It's for him, honest !!

Steve
Click to expand...

Just ring them, they are far better over the phone and you will get the computer just as quick (unless it is absolutely standard!). Even a different graphics card in a Mac pro is a special order.

I would NEVER buy a Mac pro with the normal card as for £90 you get a card that is blisteringly fast and from CS4 (well also some things in CS3) can be used to do some of the processing!
 
whiteflyer said:
I have just rung them up,saying it was for my nephews Christmas present. I think I just need a copy of his student id card for between 6% and 12% discount. I would love to know how Darren got 18% off ;)


Also a question for Darren about screen resolutions. While researching a 24" monitor I have seen Mac mode in a few specs, what this?
I am looking at a Mac Pro with NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Click to expand...

The discount depends on the actual model and which college/uni the student is from. Uni students get a higher discount and certain unis are better too. For example Lancaster uni which includes Blackpool and the fylde college or Runshaw college locally attract a higher discount but Preston College gets a lower discount. I have always found you get a better discount over the phone too.

The pro models attract a higher discount and the mini gets the lowest discount PLUS at the moment you still get a free ipod (I think the £60 discount off a printer has finished!).

I certainly got an 18% discount off my (and my daughters) Mac pro, just double checking the macbook pro (which was with the higher Lancaster uni discount) ..............

.... £1398 for the Macbook pro 17" hires model which was 1699+60 (for the hires option) so 1398/1759 = 0.7947..... so looks like I got 20% discount off that one! plus I got a wireless mouse and wireless keyboard for £38 each

Monitors

I would get that graphics card definitely! As for resolution my Dell 2407 is 1920x1200 and this is perfect for that size. I would have gone for 30" as that is simply stunning but it was a choice of upgrading to 30" or getting the macro lens!

I have just clicked on student discount on the web site and the pro goes from 1749 to 1608 but does not ask which college any more so looks like you would need to ring them and tell them what you are doing to get the discount.
 
cowasaki said:
So basically any letter or card if you go into the store and over the phone just tell them (in my experience).

My dad got the student discount being on a photo post production course for pensioners which was 10 weeks long for one evening a week and my student discount was for being on a equality course at work which was run by the local college (so I had an enrollment number).

BUT

Adobe are more strict about their discount and you need to be sure because you buy the software THEN apply for the discount at which point they send you your unlocking code. But by then my daughter was doing BTEC art and design at college so clearly was ok. You should be ok if you were doing a photography course but that would depend on what the letter said and I suppose I letter of acceptance on the course would probably do!
Click to expand...

I know Adobe accept open university course students for discount - also useful is the fact you can pay for an OU course with tesco clubcard vouchers!
 
Spoke to my brother, and he reckons it will be OK to use my nephews student ID card (copy should be on its way soon)

My nephew is a Warwick Uni so that should be in the higher discount bracket (I hope)

So it's looking like I might have a nice Christmas present for myself

Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
2GB (2x1GB)
320GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB
One 16x SuperDrive
Apple Mighty Mouse
Keyboard (Local) & User’s Guide (Local)
AirPort Extreme Card (Wi-Fi)
AppleCare Protection Plan for Mac Pro (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll

Not sure if I'll ever need/use the Airport Card, but thought for £30 it would be worth having.

Just have to sort a monitor out now. I'm favouring the HP LP2475w 24" but not sure if I should get a Dell for the 3 year pixel perfect warranty.
 
whiteflyer said:
Spoke to my brother, and he reckons it will be OK to use my nephews student ID card (copy should be on its way soon)

My nephew is a Warwick Uni so that should be in the higher discount bracket (I hope)

So it's looking like I might have a nice Christmas present for myself

Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
2GB (2x1GB)
320GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB
One 16x SuperDrive
Apple Mighty Mouse
Keyboard (Local) & User’s Guide (Local)
AirPort Extreme Card (Wi-Fi)
AppleCare Protection Plan for Mac Pro (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll

Not sure if I'll ever need/use the Airport Card, but thought for £30 it would be worth having.

Just have to sort a monitor out now. I'm favouring the HP LP2475w 24" but not sure if I should get a Dell for the 3 year pixel perfect warranty.
Click to expand...

Dell 2408 for me ! I tried every 24" monitor I could find and it was the best!

I didn't bother with the airport card because the computer is not going to be moved and it has 2 gigabit network cards!

Applecare !!!

Don't get Applecare from Apple... Buy it from America via Ebay, I paid less than £100 for my Applecare... It is transferable worldwide so you can just get the American one and use that :)

Memory

What are you doing about RAM ?? - Are you buying 2 x 1Gb for a total of 4Gb and costing £70 OR 4 x 2Gb for a total of 8Gb (taking the current 2Gb out) at £230 or 2 x 1Gb + 4 x 2Gb for a cost of £300 and ending up with 12Gb ?? - I would not use the installed 2 x 1Gb with 4 x 2Gb

EDIT... Unless of course you can get a really good deal on the 3007/3008, seriously a wonderful monitor !!
 
cowasaki said:
Applecare !!!

Don't get Applecare from Apple... Buy it from America via Ebay, I paid less than £100 for my Applecare... It is transferable worldwide so you can just get the American one and use that :)
Click to expand...

This is something I had no idea about, and will have to do some research.

Not made my mind up on RAM yet, will depend on how much money I have left :(
 
whiteflyer said:
This is something I had no idea about, and will have to do some research.

Not made my mind up on RAM yet, will depend on how much money I have left :(
Click to expand...

Use the money you had for Applecare on the Ram and buy Applecare some time in the new year. You only have to buy it before the computer's warranty runs out at 12 months. I checked into the Applecare issue with Apple and they confirmed that ANY Applecare for a Mac Pro works with ANY mac pro. This was bourn out when I bought the Applecare from America and it worked perfectly. I have since needed to use it due to a bizarre software fault and it was fine. So you can definitely save some money there. My choice really would be the 12Gb option which would just be blisteringly fast !!

EDIT: Just checked and there are lots of Applecares on Ebay USA costing about $185 so thats the way
 
cowasaki said:
The Mac pro is a DUAL socket machine with 2 x QUAD core processors giving 8 cores. On the QUAD core version ie the cheap one. They only fit ONE processor which is a QUAD core and the motherboard is not even fitted with the socket for the other making it impossible to fit without work that is beyond even most repair centres.

The family of processors that are fitted to the current revision 2 Mac pro is about to get a new member which is a SIX core chip and as such you could replace the four core with a SIX core (in theory) but thats as good as it will get.

Apple are masters at getting the best pricing from their suppliers and the current price of a Mac pro is about £1749 with 2 2.8GHz xeons. The price of buying 2 2.8Ghz xeons is about £1200+VAT so you are only paying £300 for the rest of the computer **This means that the cheapest 8 core Windows Xeon workstation is actually a Macpro !! ** Because of this it is not actually worth upgrading any processors on Macpros because it is actually cheaper to sell your mac pro and buy a new one. I have a QUAD core revision 1 2.66GHz Mac pro (2 x DUAL core chips). Now if I bought 2 x 3GHz QUAD core Xeons it would cost me £1200 but I could actually sell my Mac pro for £1000 then add another £749 and get a brand new pro !!
Click to expand...

the octo cores are due out soon in socket 775 which is what I assume the macs use, whats stopping one from slottin one of them in?
 
Yantorsen said:
the octo cores are due out soon in socket 775 which is what I assume the macs use, whats stopping one from slottin one of them in?
Click to expand...

The point is if you buy the 8 Core Mac now you'll be able to put TWO of the six core chips in to give you a 12 core machine, and when they come out you'll have TWO 8 core chips giving you a 16 core machine.
 
Yantorsen said:
the octo cores are due out soon in socket 775 which is what I assume the macs use, whats stopping one from slottin one of them in?
Click to expand...

It is a different architecture the last chip Intel will produce that is compatible with the current Xeon is going to be a six core. The eight core will be Nehalem Xeon which will require a new main board and be revision 3, they have already confirmed this.
 
whiteflyer said:
The point is if you buy the 8 Core Mac now you'll be able to put TWO of the six core chips in to give you a 12 core machine, and when they come out you'll have TWO 8 core chips giving you a 16 core machine.
Click to expand...

Its still all theoretical because it will always be cheaper to sell your current machine and buy the better one unless Intel have a dramatic change of mind with their pricing!
 
Been reading this thread with interest (y) as a mac pro could be a future (near future hopefully) purchase.

Can someone confirm that the RAM which fits in the Mac pro is widely available? I heard Scan mentioned?

Seams a big difference in the RAM prices (theres probably a good reason) as I was just about to fit 8Gb (Crucial) in my PC at a cost of £120
 
whiteflyer said:
The point is if you buy the 8 Core Mac now you'll be able to put TWO of the six core chips in to give you a 12 core machine, and when they come out you'll have TWO 8 core chips giving you a 16 core machine.
Click to expand...

but by the time you need 16 cores the rest of the machine will be obsolete because you won't be able to fit any more dimms in it and it'll probably have a totally outdated graphics card and by then we'll have PCI-E 3 etc.
 
cowasaki said:
It is a different architecture the last chip Intel will produce that is compatible with the current Xeon is going to be a six core. The eight core will be Nehalem Xeon which will require a new main board and be revision 3, they have already confirmed this.
Click to expand...

last time I looked they were going to produce a 775 (current core2 socket) of the octo core. I maybe out of date on that as I've been out of the hardware loop a while.
 
Mr THX said:
Been reading this thread with interest (y) as a mac pro could be a future (near future hopefully) purchase.

Can someone confirm that the RAM which fits in the Mac pro is widely available? I heard Scan mentioned?

Seams a big difference in the RAM prices (theres probably a good reason) as I was just about to fit 8Gb (Crucial) in my PC at a cost of £120
Click to expand...

www.overclockers.co.uk and www.scan.co.uk both do apple memory.
 
This thread is getting very technical.
What's with all this talk about multi cores... wasn't it Einstein who said an apple is an apple is an apple ? or was that Newton .
My kingdom for a Macintosh red any day.
Take the bite !
 
Mr THX said:
Been reading this thread with interest (y) as a mac pro could be a future (near future hopefully) purchase.

Can someone confirm that the RAM which fits in the Mac pro is widely available? I heard Scan mentioned?

Seams a big difference in the RAM prices (theres probably a good reason) as I was just about to fit 8Gb (Crucial) in my PC at a cost of £120
Click to expand...

The Mac pro uses serverworkstation class RAM rather than the standard RAM that most computers use. The RAM in a Mac pro is made up of 2-8 FB-DIMMs. These were VERY expensive but have come down in price as has most other RAM but it is still more expensive than your normal DDR2/3 BUT when you compare it with quality ram there isnt that big a difference.

Basically

Mac Pro revision 1 uses FB-DIMMS of 667MHz (but 800MHz work)
Mac Pro revision 2 uses FB-DIMMS of 800MHz

revision 2 is the current revision comprising the 2.8GHz QUAD xeon, 2.8,3.0 & 3.2 EIGHT cores.
revision 1 were the previous generation

All other intel processor Apple computers use SODIMMS of various speeds (see my web site)

Do not buy ANY ram for a Mac pro unless it is CRUCIAL, KINGSTON or APPLE however tempting the price may be.

Price wise SCAN is pretty good but EBAY.COM is very good at the moment.
 
Yantorsen said:
last time I looked they were going to produce a 775 (current core2 socket) of the octo core. I maybe out of date on that as I've been out of the hardware loop a while.
Click to expand...

Mac pros use XEON processors not your normal 775 pin CORE processors. Intel have no plans to produce an EIGHT core version of the current design. Their roadmap shows a 6 core then NEHALEM with 8 cores. NEHALEM will require a new motherboard so you cannot go further with a revision 2
 
cowasaki said:
Mac pros use XEON processors not your normal 775 pin CORE processors. Intel have no plans to produce an EIGHT core version of the current design. Their roadmap shows a 6 core then NEHALEM with 8 cores. NEHALEM will require a new motherboard so you cannot go further with a revision 2
Click to expand...

Ok, i'll take your word for it.

yeah I forgot the macs use Xeons not core 2s, even though there basically the same but a different socket.

Besides either way, I don't relaly see the point in going for 8 core atm. Future proofing is stupid, because by the time you nned to make the upgrades either the rest of your hardware is out of date, you don't really NEED an upgrade or it'd be more viable to just replace the whole system.
 
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