Mach Loop, what do I need to know

Big_Ham

Big_Ham

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Chris
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Going for my first trip up there a week today.(Let's hope it's nice)

Anything I need to know. I'll be going to the Bwlch with my 450D and Bigma.

I also understand I need to be at that car park before 8am to get a space.

I understand it's a dress for freezing cold weather and rain type exercise. Anything else I need to know though?
 
I've never been, but am hoping to go in June (toasty! :)) A few ideas spring to mind....

Seat;
Monopod;
Something to relieve the endless monotony of waiting for something to appear;
Food & drink
 
waterproofs top and bottom (means you can lie down/snooze)
lots of layers (as ocaisionally its really warm supposedly (I've only ever been freezing)
loads of munchies (took egg and bacon last time :p)
a decent lighter for your ciggies (once had terrible troubles with this) also maybe straights over rollies as I can't roll in the wind
tea is good

maybe a wide prime for landscapey stuff when you get bored?
 
I'd also add:

Eyes like a hawk (no pun intended) and ears like a bat... Sometimes they'll come out of nowhere and by the time you hear 'em, they're almost on top of you as well. :D

Enjoy the day but be prepared for hours of inactivity punctuated by minutess of excitement! :)

Si
 
take more clothes than you expect to need, the wind cuts through everything. even if the forcast says sun take warm gear and waterproofs.
i dont have experience with a monopod but i am told they dont really work for lowfly due to the very different parths that the aircraft can take unlike with cars where they tend to follow the same line.

prepare to be bored out of your mind and then suddenly become extreamly excited. there are times when you will question why the hell you are sitting on the side of a hill but stick with it, it is great fun!

and lastly i would recommend going with someone, for two reasons as company makes the day far more bearable and also it means you can take it in turns spotting as constantly stearing down the valley looking for the light on the front of a hawk or a grey point thing makes your eyes go funny

have fun!

alastair
 
Check out the forum on the website below, some useful tips and location guides
http://www.flylow-flyfast.co.uk/

As you mentioned, weather will play a big part in your day, 8 0'clock abit early as the weather hawk doesn't usually go through the pass until about 8:15, but its up to you. The Bwlch has 4 locations, the shelves, personally the best position is the top shelf, as you get to look down on the aircraft, there are the middle and lower shelves each offering a slightly different perspective and the Bwlch Exit. If the conditions are perfect, clear skies and sun, then your lens will cope fine, but if the conditions are overcast, then unfortunately the bigma will struggle, f6.3 just won't cut the mustard when the conditions in the loop aren't in your favour because you'll need to keep shutter speeds reasonable high, 1/800 1/1000 or 1/1250 for the jets. As for a monopod, I personally wouldn't recommend one, unlike motor racing where you can guarantee the subject is in the same position every lap, you can't with lowfly, also it could be quite easy to lose you footing if you get tangled up with the monopod, and humans don't have feathers and wings. I handhold the canon 300mm f2.8 (@ 2.5kg) a friend the 400mm f2.8 (@ 5.6kg) for lowfly with no problems.

This isn't like an airshow, aircraft ain't appearing every 15 minutes through out the day only stopping for pie and chips at lunch time, its the waiting game, which could all kick off 6/7 hours after you arrive, but then again, there could be a steady stream of aircraft, it the unpredictability of what's going to happen next as well as the buzz of capturing those images that drags us back everytime, F15, inverted Jaguar, Tonka coming out of the mist and the afterburners :D enjoy your day on the loop
 
Jumping into this one I have a rather stupid question!

I am absolutely terrified of heights (paralysingly so), I've reads comments about ledges etc, when I get there are there spots away from the edge that you could stilll get good shots from as I'm guessing there are some pretty serious drops!
 
Think you should go to cadwest instead then. As this is more of a steep hill or corris corner.
 
pete.rush said:
As for a monopod, I personally wouldn't recommend one, unlike motor racing where you can guarantee the subject is in the same position every lap, you can't with lowfly, also it could be quite easy to lose you footing if you get tangled up with the monopod, and humans don't have feathers and wings. I handhold the canon 300mm f2.8 (@ 2.5kg) a friend the 400mm f2.8 (@ 5.6kg) for lowfly with no problems.
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The only reason I suggested a monopod is because the Bigma is a pretty substantial, and long lens to be waving round on the end of a 450D with no IS or other stabilisation. Personally I use a 100-400, with IS, so I am grateful for the panning IS mode. I just thought a monopod might be helpful for the Bigma. If not, fair enough. I guess it all depends on the individual :)
 
TheNissanMan said:
Jumping into this one I have a rather stupid question!

I am absolutely terrified of heights (paralysingly so), I've reads comments about ledges etc, when I get there are there spots away from the edge that you could stilll get good shots from as I'm guessing there are some pretty serious drops!
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Not a stupid question at all. The 'shelves' at the Bwlch do have some serious drops, but the middle and top shelves are not particularly small and you should easily find a spot well away from the edge where you can feel safe.

Cad West doesn't have any big drops, so is probably the place to go for a first trip.

Some hints on tips re equipment can be found here : http://www.lowflymedia.com/info/equipment.shtml
 
Interesting comment there about leaving IS turned off. Having not shot there I would not know what to expect, but I would have been aiming for lower shutter speeds - maybe 1/400 or so - for significant background blur when panning, and to shoot that slow with a long lens I'd prefer the assistance of a panning IS mode. Certainly speeds considerably slower than that are preferable for motorsport panning. Maybe jets are different. I appreciate the linear velocity of the aircraft will be faster, but I would have thought the angular velocity around the photographer, which is what affects panning speed, would not be so much different. I might be in for a shock :D
 
tdodd said:
Interesting comment there about leaving IS turned off. Having not shot there I would not know what to expect, but I would have been aiming for lower shutter speeds - maybe 1/400 or so - for significant background blur when panning, and to shoot that slow with a long lens I'd prefer the assistance of a panning IS mode. Certainly speeds considerably slower than that are preferable for motorsport panning. Maybe jets are different. I appreciate the linear velocity of the aircraft will be faster, but I would have thought the angular velocity around the photographer, which is what affects panning speed, would not be so much different. I might be in for a shock :D
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It depends whether you are practised in panning (and trust me I've seen loads of people with $%£& images because they've set too slow a shutter speed), but for me personally, 1/400 sec is significantly too slow for someone who has never done this before especially as the aircraft approaching speed in excess of 500/600mph, we ain't talking cars here and yes it does have a major effect on the pan, you don't have a great deal of time to react.

The major problem with lowfly photograph is the conditions and to get a shot, I prefer to keep shutter speeds at around 1/1000 sec for F15 etc and 1/320 400 for the Tuc's, as I mentioned, this ain't an airshow, that 1 and only opportunity during the day could be your only chance to get a shot, would you rather get a sharp image or blow it because your camera settings were all wrong.......been there done that...
 
tdodd said:
Interesting comment there about leaving IS turned off. Having not shot there I would not know what to expect, but I would have been aiming for lower shutter speeds - maybe 1/400 or so - for significant background blur when panning, and to shoot that slow with a long lens I'd prefer the assistance of a panning IS mode. Certainly speeds considerably slower than that are preferable for motorsport panning. Maybe jets are different. I appreciate the linear velocity of the aircraft will be faster, but I would have thought the angular velocity around the photographer, which is what affects panning speed, would not be so much different. I might be in for a shock :D
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for a first trip keep it at about a thousandth, then work it down for more interesting shots once you have a feel for it
 
pete.rush said:
...especially as the aircraft approaching speed in excess of 500/600mph...
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Hi Pete,

If one of these aircraft comes through the loop at 600mph, we're all in trouble! That's not too far off the sound barrier if I remember correctly! :D

Cheesy posted a couple of cockpit shots a short while ago that showed an airspeed of 400+ knots (about 0.6 mach)... I'd be more worried about him pushing the throttles a bit hard and having my head hammered flat! ;)

A lot will depend on the aircraft I guess.

Cheers,
Si
 
first 5 days up there i shot wide open at f/4 and changed ISO to maintain 1/1000 ish, and i like to think my panning technique is pretty good.

I'm up later this week for a few days and will slowly be knocking the shutters down, i'll be chuffed if i nail one at 1/500!
 
Trev, Could be NONE, could be 25 passes! I've done 10 days, 4 blanks, 6 days with 8-12 passes
 
From zero to as many as there are. My first visit had 6 F15 that did 2 fly bys each time, 6 or 7 Hawks, a Harrier and a tornado. 2nd visit had a 4 hawks, tornado, and a alpha. 3rd visit had 2 Tornados, 2 C130s (which I missed photographing), and 2 hawks doing a double pass. and that does not count the ones that did not fly by where I was. Heres a map I got off someone oon here.

Loop.png
 
Trev Rich said:
Well I'm not going to plan that trip then :(
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It's a waiting game and perseverance is rewarded! :bang:

A mate had something like 12 days of just hawks, which are good but no Big fighter jet, Then came the day he went up by himself (travelling from south coast of wales) and got some of the best birds seen up there for many a day!

I go expecting nothing, anything that comes through is a bonus!
 
Well I've just been having a little tantrum... Couldn't get out to photograph anything today and I've just had a pair of Tornados go screaming overhead and along the coastline!

One of the joys of living in Aberystwyth I guess! :D

All I had the last time was the underside of an F15 that decided to go down the wrong side of CadWest! Ah well. :)

Si
 
As long as you pick a good weather day there tends to be at least some Hawks going threw. It also depends on what exercise are going one and where for the frontliners. Chessy has posted some pics of them getting ready for night fliying as last week and this there is night exercises on. And that means no to little low flying.
 
Trev Rich said:
Yeah calm down lol.
It's a bit of a trek for me to get there in the 1st place, let alone site there for days on end when I don't have the time.
perseverance is one thing, wish I had the time and cash to spend 12 days sat on a hill..
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sorry, smilie in wrong place! i'm banging my head waiting for my perseverance to be paid off!

as for time and cash, it costs me £40 in fuel there and back from cheltenham, and i'm self employed so when works quiet i wander for a day up in wales!

Better than any airshow most are happy to pay more to sit and view!

If you get on some of the low flying forums there's always people willing to advise, and car sharing is the norm to save fuel for all parties.

It's well worth it!
 
c_robinson said:
sorry, smilie in wrong place! i'm banging my head waiting for my perseverance to be paid off!

as for time and cash, it costs me £40 in fuel there and back from cheltenham, and i'm self employed so when works quiet i wander for a day up in wales!

Better than any airshow most are happy to pay more to sit and view!

If you get on some of the low flying forums there's always people willing to advise, and car sharing is the norm to save fuel for all parties.

It's well worth it!
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Nice one cheers bud.

Right who wants to go from the south? haha
 
where daaaan saaaaf are you? i'm in cheltenham, along with 2 other low flying regulars, couple in bristol etc etc

I'm going up at 4am wednesday to be there for 7-7.30 for an hours kip before giving myself numerous heart attacks walking up top the exit or bluebell.

I'm doing wed thursday and friday.

If the OP wants PM me and i'll be ahppy to meet you friday and show you the way up, although i don't yet know where i'll be going!
 
david1701 said:
for a first trip keep it at about a thousandth, then work it down for more interesting shots once you have a feel for it
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So you don't feel that practicing at 1/125 on aircraft like this is an adequate preparation? :D

20090808_131425_0459_LR.jpg


100% crop :
20090808_131425_0459_LR.jpg


I guess if you scale the speeds I probably will need 1/1000 or so. I probably will start high and work my way down. ;) I just hope there are enough opportunities to have a few attempts.
 
No I do not think practicing at that speed is good enough for the loop.
Why? In the case of an airfield, the A/C are flying in a stright line up or down, with the A/C in the picture it is slow very slow compared to even a Hawk. Plus the mil A/C do not fly straight the Bwlch is a big curve and Cad East/West is a dog leg plus the A/C are moving up or down as well as banking.
The problem with a monopod is that it pivots around a central point, when panning an A/C at extreme right or laft it becomes very difficult to continue the pan because the body will not contort around the pivot the way you want and therefor you loose the A/C out of the frame and loose the shot altogeather. As soon as you move your feet you have lost.
If you can get your hands on a small chuck up tent then take it with you.

Allan
 
hercs look real good at 1/100 but my keeper rate is soooo low 1/125 is good and usually gives at least one decent shot a pass

where aways down south mate, a pair of us head up from exe every few weeks/months
 
Thanks for further tips. I expected the Bigma to be a little on the slow side. I'd like to think my panning is reasonable from the motorsport stuff I shoot, but we shall see. I'm currently preying to the sun gods and looking at Metcheck hourly(Currently looks chuffing aweful). :D
 
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