macro set up (macro guru's please help)

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famas

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Hi all

Im after a new macro set up, some thing that will give me super sharp images with as much magnification as possible. mostly snapping bugs and insects.

ideally i would love to have a MP-e 65, but as im from the dark side of the force and use nikon this is out of the question.

At the moment im looking at the sigma 150mm with a set of kenko extension tubes. I've read this lens is pretty sharp, how does it compare to the mp-e/nikon 105?

Another thing i've noticed is the minimum aperture is 22, Which the lens would be stuck at if using manual tubes, will this be the same case with the kenko, and if so will it give to shallow a DOF?

What sort of magnification will this setup give?

As i understand a longer focal lengh with give me more working distance, is this the same case when using extension tubes?

For similar money is there a better lens choice than the sigma?

As far as im awear the only way to get close to the mp-e x5 magnification is to use bellows, i think these will be to expensive and cumbersome to use. would it be possible to use 2 sets of kenko tubes? or will the light fall off be to much/ the extra tubes have no effect?

Is there a better setup to be had? I've heard of reversing lenses? im not to familiar with this and have heard image quality suffers and working distances are tiny.

finaly im after some lighting to.

i've been looking at the Sigma EM-140 DG Flash. Is this a worthwhile investment, or for similar money is there a better option. i've seen the Nikon R1 Speedlight for £100 more, is it worth the extra cost and is having two flashes over a ring flash any benefit?

sorry for the million questions, as you can see i'll be spending a fare amount of money so want to get the best setup as possible.

thanks
Dan.
 
Dan - Unfortunately While you have a Nikon body there is nothing that you can do to get similar results and portability to the MP-e, if you are into macro it may be worth swapping to Canon before you put the best part of 1K into Nikon macro kit and still lust the MP-e.
Before my switch to Canon i had a D300 , Sigma 105mm, sigma 150mm, Kenko tubes,PB-6 bellows, R1 flash etc etc and while very capable i still lusted after the MP-e. If you do stick with Nikon the Sigma 150mm is a excellent lens but it is heavy and takes time to be able to hand hold the lens, it has no aperture ring so you will need kenko tubes to be able to set the lens aperture from the camera body - its a complete pain in the butt with the ebay cheapies.......using tubes will increase the magnification but reduce the working distance by the same amount as the length of tubes used and finally the R1 flash is excellent and lighting is one of the most important parts of macro.
 
cheers for your reply Paul.
although the thought of changing to canon (blerrrr :) had crossed my mind i dont think it will be a viable option.

im willing to accept the fact i wont get the magnification of the mp-e, as long as sharpness is there i can crop to a certain degree.
I would like a set up that gives the most magnification as possible.

Did you have any problems with the wireless aspect of the R1, this puts me off a bit, although i agree with you that lighting is very important im leaning more towards the em-140 as it can be put to use in other areas as well as macro.
cheers
 
famas said:
cheers for your reply Paul.
although the thought of changing to canon (blerrrr :) had crossed my mind i dont think it will be a viable option.

im willing to accept the fact i wont get the magnification of the mp-e, as long as sharpness is there i can crop to a certain degree.
I would like a set up that gives the most magnification as possible.

Did you have any problems with the wireless aspect of the R1, this puts me off a bit, although i agree with you that lighting is very important im leaning more towards the em-140 as it can be put to use in other areas as well as macro.
cheers
Click to expand...

The 150mm is very sharp and sharper than the 105mm with a lovely creamy bokeh -( all the drops on my flickr were taken with the 150). The R1 never failed to fire and gives you a lot more control over a ring flash, you can use it off camera , you can hand hold 1 flash head and move it around the subject & softer light than a ring flash.
 
famas said:
I would like a set up that gives the most magnification as possible.
Click to expand...

Lenses with longer focal lengths will require more tubes to achieve the same increase in magnification, ie, a Sigma 150 will require approx 50% more tube length than a Sigma 105 to achieve the same magnification increase....something to bear in mind when choosing the lens.
If high mag is your goal then you should be looking at tubing a 50 or 60mm macro lens....you'll suffer reduced WD but there's always a price to pay.

Bob
 
cheers for your imput Bob, i Always thought the more focal lengh you had the higher the magnification was when using tubes.

in that case maybe the Nikon 60mm f2.8 D AF or Nikon 105mm f2.8 would be better options?

As i'll be mostly shooting insects, how much more morking distance would the sigma 150 + tubes give over the nikon 60mm + tubes?

out of intrest has any one used the Nikon 85mm f2.8 D PC-E Micro. this gives 1/2x magnification. could it be used with tubes?

cheers.
 
famas said:
cheers for your imput Bob, i Always thought the more focal lengh you had the higher the magnification was when using tubes.
Click to expand...
Most macro lenses focus down to 1:1 A rule of thumb is that you need the same length of tubes as the lens' focal length to double the magnification.....hence longer FL lenses need more tube length to achieve this increase. The formula isn't 100% accurate as macro lenses have internal extension in their design and this figure needs to be factored into the equation too. The other issue is that the stated focal length is when the lens is focussed at infinity. Coming down to minimum focus distance reduces the focal length too....Canon's EF100/2.8 macro is only 78mm "effective focal length" when used at 1:1 and hence the tube length to double the magnification to 2:1 would be 78mm minus whatever internal extension is built into the lens design.
I hope that makes sense :gag:

Bob
 
not at all :lol:

no thanks for explaining that.

i've had a sugestion of using the 150mm and reversing a 50mm on the front of it to get 3x magnification. has any one tried this and if so what kind of working distance did you get?

another suggestion was to use a teleconverter + tubes + the 150, which i liked the sound of as i could still use the R1, which i've decided will be my next purchase.

"close up filters" + the 150mm were also suggested but i think image quality will suffer to much trying to achieve high magnification???

any more help is much appreciated
thanks
Dan
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
Dan - Unfortunately While you have a Nikon body there is nothing that you can do to get similar results and portability to the MP-e, if you are into macro it may be worth swapping to Canon before you put the best part of 1K into Nikon macro kit and still lust the MP-e.
Before my switch to Canon i had a D300 , Sigma 105mm, sigma 150mm, Kenko tubes,PB-6 bellows, R1 flash etc etc and while very capable i still lusted after the MP-e. If you do stick with Nikon the Sigma 150mm is a excellent lens but it is heavy and takes time to be able to hand hold the lens, it has no aperture ring so you will need kenko tubes to be able to set the lens aperture from the camera body - its a complete pain in the butt with the ebay cheapies.......using tubes will increase the magnification but reduce the working distance by the same amount as the length of tubes used and finally the R1 flash is excellent and lighting is one of the most important parts of macro.
Click to expand...

It seems you switched for this specific lens :) if so, have you got one yet? If so, was it worth the switch?
 
grahamc said:
It seems you switched for this specific lens :) if so, have you got one yet? If so, was it worth the switch?
Click to expand...

Yes i switched purely for access to this lens, and i got the lens within a couple of days (Thanks Kerso :thumbs:) was it worth it ?



.............Definitely YES :D,

I preferred the build quality and feel of the D300 but the potential quality from this lens is stunning and i think the raw files from the 5D have a richer colour / contrast straight from the camera.
 
What it comes down to is that you need an MP-E65. It's a gap in the Nikon line-up that needs to be filled and would make a lot of happy macro togs into the process.

The working distance is always going to be a compromise and achieving a longer working distance at higher magnifications is not going to be such a good thing. The 60mm macro lenses all the way through to the 180mm offerings all give 1:1 but with gradually increasing WD's. The longer FL versions become more and more difficult to hand hold as vibrations and movements have greater effect on the image....I can hand hold my 180 close to MFD but adding the 1.4x tips it into tripod territory.

In short, as magnification increases then WD needs to reduce to be able to maintain the same level of usability. Grab a 90-100-105 and some tubes and see where you're heading.

Bob
 
thanks again for your input Bob.

like you say im going to have to accept a small WD for the kind of magnification i want. Its just knowing what kit to get to give me the best over all Performance, its all so confusing :)

at the moment i have the tokina 100mm with a set of manual tubes. which is giving ok results, there's just times i wish i could get closer. I also have a set of cheap close up filters but i've not tried these yet as they are a different filter size to my tokina, maybe i should get a step down ring and try them with the above set up to see what i get???

i think the first two things on my list will be the R1 flash and a set of kenko tubes, i can borrow a teleconverter and get a step down ring for the close up filters, then its just a matter of what lens to get???

cheers
Dan
 
I have the Siggy 150macro and 70macro.

While the 150 is extremely sharp, the 70 is much more so. It is often quoted as the sharpest lens in Sigma's line up.

The 150 does offer more real estate between you and the subject which is great for shy insects and the like, but can also be very limiting, especially on a cropped sensor camera like a D90.

I would suggest visiting your local camera shops and trying various focal length lenses on a D90 or similar.
 
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