Manfrotto 405 and 410 geared heads.

Stu Blackpool

Stu Blackpool

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Stewart
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Hi guys,
Im looking to upgrade my 3 way tripod head today and am pretty settled on the 405 or 410 geared head. just cant decide which.

Use is primarily landscapes and distant objects so will need to support a 7D with a 70-200 F2.8 IS USL MK2 and often also a 2x and or 1.4x Canon MK2 TC.

Has anyone used either or both pof these products with such heavy kit and can they offer advice as to weather the cheaper one is up to the job or if I should bite the bullet and buy the 405 pro?

I read a lot about the 405 being fragile, and that info has made me wary of buying.
 
I own both a 405 and a 410.

The 405 is nicer to use, bigger handles and smoother gearing. I use this on a set of Gitzo explorer legs with a levelling base and panorama base for times when I'll be near the car and don't mind the weight.

The 410 is lighter and more compact. I use it on a set of Gitzo Mountaineer legs for times when I am going to be scrambling down cliffs, up mountains etc.

I've used both with heavy gear (medium and large format cameras and 35mm with 100-400) without issue.

One thing I would recommend is the Hejnar Arca Swiss conversions which are superb.
 
Ive got the 410, its a great head, really solid, brilliant at fine adjustments.

It seems to have gone up a bit since i got mine early this year , i paid £120 , i did get a bit of discount though as i bought it with a 055XPROB tripod.

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Thanks guys - Im going to hit the button soon, still a little undecided. As a regular diver, I don't mind carrying weight at all so tahst not an issue, but reports of unreliability certainly are.

Do they drop to portrait easily?


Mark, would you mind elaborating on what the quote below is all about please?

markmullen said:
One thing I would recommend is the Hejnar Arca Swiss conversions which are superb.
Click to expand...
 
Oh.. also.
This statement on their product description...
" the 405 also incorporates a unique feature that allows you to instantly disengage the gears and rough position the camera by hand, then instantly reengage them for ultra-precise final alignment. "

Does that mean it has a feature that essentially converts it temporarily into almost a "ball head" while you get the positioning something like?

**Edit**
Scrub that, after watching a video review - its just describing the global unlock feature on each axis i think. Odd they only mention it for the 405 though, since the 410 has the same feature.
 
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Arca Swiss is a large format camera manufacturer and also a standard for quick release plates. The benefit is that they aren't manufacturer specific, you can get AS plates from AS themselves, Kirk, Really Right Stuff, Novoflex, Sunwayfoto etc etc

The main benefit is you can buy an L bracket, like this http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-kirk-bl-7d-l-bracket-for-canon-eos-7d-with-bg-e7-grip/p1520909

To shoot portrait you just slide the camera out of the clamp, flip it upright and slide it back in, the composition doesn't change left to right, just goes to portrait.

The Hejnar conversion http://www.hejnarphotostore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_17&products_id=41 converts your 405/410 head to accept Arca Swiss plates.

It all sounds a bit complicated, but in operation it really isn't. If ever you're over this way give me a shout and you can have a play with my kit and see how it works.

Stu Blackpool said:
Oh.. also.
This statement on their product description...
" the 405 also incorporates a unique feature that allows you to instantly disengage the gears and rough position the camera by hand, then instantly reengage them for ultra-precise final alignment. "

Does that mean it has a feature that essentially converts it temporarily into almost a "ball head" while you get the positioning something like?
Click to expand...

No, you can turn each of the locks, one at a time, to unlock them to make big movements, rather than winding furiously on the gears. I use the release to get the camera somewhere like in the right direction, then the gears to align it completely, using a spirit level, or the onscreen level if I'm using the 5D3.
 
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Stu Blackpool said:
Oh.. also.
This statement on their product description...
" the 405 also incorporates a unique feature that allows you to instantly disengage the gears and rough position the camera by hand, then instantly reengage them for ultra-precise final alignment. "

Does that mean it has a feature that essentially converts it temporarily into almost a "ball head" while you get the positioning something like?
Click to expand...

The 410 has the same feature (if it's what I think they're talking about!). Look at Balb0wa's photos and you'll see a 4 pointed ring behind the knobs. Turning the ring disengages the gearing and allows rough positioning. This makes the 410 almost as fast to position roughly as a ball head with the bonus that it can be finely adjusted with no fear of the creeping that ball heads are prone to during adjustment.
 
Thanks everyone, really appreciate the time and advice, just ordered the 405 and will investigate the Arca conversion later when I get home from work. :
 
Stu Blackpool said:
Thanks everyone, really appreciate the time and advice, just ordered the 405 and will investigate the Arca conversion later when I get home from work. :
Click to expand...

Oh well, I'll say it anyway for anyone else interested...

I wouldn't get either 410 or 405 unless precise adjustment in three individual planes is necessary. They're great for that, and I upgraded my 410 to a 405 last week for just the reasons Mark outlines. But you don't need a thumping great head like these for holding heavy kit - a high-end ball head will cope easily, be much lighter and a lot faster to use. I wouldn't want to carry a 410 or 405 very far - three yards across the studio is long distance for me.

Defo go for an Arca-Swiss QR system, and a L-bracket. Hejnar AS conversion is sweet, but what most folks do, including me, is simply bolt a £20 AS clamp to the standard M'frotto QR plate. Works perfectly :thumbs:

Also consider this Induro PHQ head, kinda similar sort of idea, but faster and beautifully engineered http://www.indurogear.com/products/phq-series-5-way-panheads/ That works a bit like a ball head if you slacken all three axes. For action photography, a gimbal is unbeatable with longer lenses.
 
HoppyUK said:
I wouldn't get either 410 or 405 unless precise adjustment in three individual planes is necessary. They're great for that, and I upgraded my 410 to a 405 last week for just the reasons Mark outlines. But you don't need a thumping great head like these for holding heavy kit - a high-end ball head will cope easily, be much lighter and a lot faster to use.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, they're a specialist piece of kit for a few particular applications, for me shooting landscapes, architecture and interiors they're perfect but wouldn't suit anything particularly fast moving.
 
Thanks,
I don't shoot action on a tripod, I only ever use it for company products or landscapes / moons etc and the weight of this one is a tad less than the weight of the one its replacing and I cart that around on my back strapped to the Lowepro Slingshot 302AW so I don't envisage any weight problems for "me personally".

My current "interest" is long exposures with ND filters so stability and fine adjustability is of far more interest to me than speed, much to my friends annoyance who all insist I absolutely must buy a ball head. I guess I may live to regret it, but someone here will no doubt benefit from my failure with a nice cheap 405 for sale. LOL

Interested in an elaboration on the "£20 AS clamp" though mate, if you would be so kind?

there
HoppyUK said:
Oh well, I'll say it anyway for anyone else interested...

I wouldn't get either 410 or 405 unless precise adjustment in three individual planes is necessary. They're great for that, and I upgraded my 410 to a 405 last week for just the reasons Mark outlines. But you don't need a thumping great head like these for holding heavy kit - a high-end ball head will cope easily, be much lighter and a lot faster to use. I wouldn't want to carry a 410 or 405 very far - three yards across the studio is long distance for me.

Defo go for an Arca-Swiss QR system, and a L-bracket. Hejnar AS conversion is sweet, but what most folks do, including me, is simply bolt a £20 AS clamp to the standard M'frotto QR plate. Works perfectly :thumbs:

Also consider this Induro PHQ head, kinda similar sort of idea, but faster and beautifully engineered http://www.indurogear.com/products/phq-series-5-way-panheads/ That works a bit like a ball head if you slacken all three axes. For action photography, a gimbal is unbeatable with longer lenses.
Click to expand...
 
Stu Blackpool said:
Interested in an elaboration on the "£20 AS clamp" though mate, if you would be so kind?
Click to expand...

A system I used on my 405 before I got it converted (I bought the 410 already converted) is to buy an Arca Swiss clamp, I used a Kirk 1.75 inch although cheaper brands are available, they have a 1/4 20 female thread so screw it onto the Manfrotto plate (possibly even using some Loctite) and place the Manfrotto plate into the head and lock it down securely.

It worked well but wasn't as elegant a solution as the Hejnar so I finally got round to converting that too.

I don't know if you use Black Rapid but if you go down this route you can use the 1 inch Arca Swiss clamps on the BR fastener to make your bodies and lenses Black Rapid and tripod compatible simultaneously, no unscrewing screws every time you want to use the tripod.
 
I have the 410 - and while I echo all the previous sentiments - the thing that I really like about using a geared head is that the tripod is always taking the full weight of the camera/lens.
This means that the legs are always in tension and that the weight is transferred fully to the ground. Unlike the "loosen, adjust, tighten" you get with ball and 3-way heads where during adjustment you are taking at least some of the weight - so when you tighten things back up and let go of the camera the weight transfer can cause movement due to the legs flexing (even slightly!) or digging into soft ground and meaning you have to either compensate or re-align.
For these reasons for most of my landscape work, I find the gear head can actually be quicker to use than a 3-way one......
 
I've had my 410 for years :)
Was recommended I borrow a 410 and stick with it for a full day's landscape photography.
A subsequent day out using the ball head highlighted just how much I was battling precise framing.
Ordered one as soon as I got home and despite keeping 'just in case', I haven't used it since.

Once you get up to speed converting from a ball head, it really is quick and easy to set up.
I find I can now adjust two axis at the same time.

The bloke who lent he his 410 was a large format film devotee.
It took the weight and bulk of that kit no problems.
As for carrying - the bracket is excellent as a grip; my fingers tuck round it nicely and I occasionally carry it all day like that.
The weight of the 410 is a little more than a decent ball head; but not that much :)
 
Stu Blackpool said:
Thanks,
I don't shoot action on a tripod, I only ever use it for company products or landscapes / moons etc and the weight of this one is a tad less than the weight of the one its replacing and I cart that around on my back strapped to the Lowepro Slingshot 302AW so I don't envisage any weight problems for "me personally".

My current "interest" is long exposures with ND filters so stability and fine adjustability is of far more interest to me than speed, much to my friends annoyance who all insist I absolutely must buy a ball head. I guess I may live to regret it, but someone here will no doubt benefit from my failure with a nice cheap 405 for sale. LOL

Interested in an elaboration on the "£20 AS clamp" though mate, if you would be so kind.
Click to expand...

CameraGear UK has a lot of nice Arca-Swiss bits (good supplier). The AS clamps I have several of appear to be out of stock ATM, but this this one is basically the same thing. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FotoPanda..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item3a826cee70 There are several other options on CGUK, including longer versions, and a circular SunWay clamp I have with an extra long locking shaft.

On the weight thing, if you don't mind humping stuff around, the more weight the better for stability and vibration damping. A heavy head bolted solidly to the camera kills movement at source :thumbs:

Duncan, I know exactly what you mean about precise positioning with a ball head - it's one of my pet hates. I fix it with a) a ball head that doesn't shift postion when you lock it down (they do exist ;)) and then b) a little rail/clamp like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNWAYFOT..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item3f2355a1aa Pop this on top of the head, then slide the camera back until it's in perfect balance so the ball is not under tension. It's one of my favourite tripod accessories, along with an L-bracket, and makes using a tripod a little more pleasure than pain.

I've not tried this AS clamp with extension arm, but suspect it also might work well http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FotoPanda..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item3f2524b08d
 
Thanks guys, the 405 arrived yesterday so I slipped off work early and took it out for a play... WOW! I cant imagine being without it now. Its so damn easy to adjust and to be honest, once you have got the hang of adjusting two planes at once with the easy locks, I really would challenge anyone with a ballhead to set up a shot accurately faster than someone used to his 405! and when it comes to setting accurate levels it probably has no equal in the ball head world. Cant wait to have a play at stuff like shooting the moon tonight, that used to drive me nuts, dealing with lens droop then you get two shots off after much fiddl.ing and the damn mon has moved out of shot and you have to repeat it all over again! RAH!

Awesome, it made using a tripod more of a joy than a chore last night - very impressed.

Thanks for all your advice everyone, will look more seriously at the Arca info after work tonight now. :)
 
Stewart, you'll still have to play chase the Moon but it's fairly easy with a geared head.
 
Nod said:
Stewart, you'll still have to play chase the Moon but it's fairly easy with a geared head.
Click to expand...

Indeed but now it's a simple case of twist one or two knobs and it's centred in mere seconds. No more bloody camera droop levels to guess and disappearing wildly off course and hunting for it with a 560mm lens.
 
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