manual config without flash indoor (room light)

[kokolino23]

Hiya,

I'll have my first baby soon (actually my wife will! ) and I will need to take some indoor pictures without using the flash.
I've got a 40d with a sigma 1.4 and I don't know what shutter speed / aperture / ISO should I use. Depends on the light anyway but at least I can change them slightly. I'm afraid to loose my first pictures at the hospital and will be embarassing to use a normal digital camera when I've got this 40d. That's why I bought it for!

I usually take pictures on automatic mode but that pops the flash out and I'm afraid I can damage her eyes. So I was thinking to use the AV mode instead and configure the camera without flash but I'm not entirely sure what settings to choose.

Thank you very much indeed in advance for your answer!

 

[iPhoto]

Angelo,

Firstly I would say, whats more important, avoiding a few jokes from your loving family or capturing those special moments?

Yes I thought so, in which case if you are as unsure as you appear to be about what is quite a simple manual exposure without flash then my advice must be to get the shots with your “normal digital camera”.

Mark.

 

[jimmyb]

If you use the AV mode you don't need to worry about the shutter speed, the camera will adjust that, just the aperture which on a lens that fast would be nice to use it at 1.4!!

You want the ISO as low as possible whilst still getting high enough shutter speeds to avoid camera shake.

As a general rule to avoid camera shake never use a shutter speed lower than the focal length of the lens (the shutter speed should still be displayed in AV mode) or use a tripod to avoid any blur at all.

Hope this helps you and anyone with a better knowledge feel free to correct me if Any of the above is incorrect

ps. Hope you get some wonderful photos of your new born.

 

[towershot]

I would just add the fact that F1.4 might be to much, you might get the eyes in focus but the nose and ears out of focus. try F2.8 at first.......

You will soon be shooting great shots with pratice.......

 

[EOS_JD]

I'm afraid I can damage her eyes.

Seriously? Whoever told you that is talking rubbish!
I would suggest buying a diffuser for your flash, this will make the light softer so the quality of images will improve.

Regards settings, it really depends on the light you are in if you are taking shots without flash. At f1.4 the depth of field is so narrow you will need to be very accurate with focusing.

If you use the AV mode you don't need to worry about the shutter speed

Actually if you use Av mode the only thing you DO need to worry about is the shutter speed for the reasons you noted - in Av mode the camera will vary the shutter speed so you need to make sure that when you move the light levels don't fall.

Regards camera shake, subject motion is more likely to be having an affect at slower shutter speeds. Flash helps to freeze motion.

As a general rule to avoid camera shake never use a shutter speed lower than the focal length of the lens (the shutter speed should still be displayed in AV mode) or use a tripod to avoid any blur at all.

A tripod will help camera shake but does not avoid blurry images due to subject motion

I love newborns (and I use flash)

 

[specialman]

Bounce the flash off the ceiliing, set the ISO to say, 400 or 800 to give you enough room to play with getting the right shutter speed AND the right aperture for good DoF, and away you go.

Like it's been said, if you are shooting in natural light the thing that's most key is having a useable (holdable) shutter speed to avoid camera shake so shoot on Tv. Let the camera select the aperture, although if you take advice to set the ISO at lower settings that's a recipe for only giving the camera the option of apertures like f/1.4, where you'll have such narrow DoF and even in-focus shots may look soft (unless narrow DoF is what you're looking for then it's okay ).

I'd rather have a grainy shot at ISO 800 than one that's got camera shake at ISO 100, especially when it comes to key moments in life like having kids - the 40D can handle 800 no problem - like you said, you have this camera so why not use it.... the same applies to the technology within it; why not use that technology?....

Bit of bounced flash off the living room ceiling for you here....


Little Man by Pat MacInnes, on Flickr

 

[trencheel303]

If you need to wack the ISO right up to 3200 in order to keep a decent shutter speed (1/160 or so to freeze the movement) don't hesitate to. There will be noise but no-one ever seemed to mind with film...

 

[paulhinch]

kokolino23 - don't worry about it.

Stick it on Av - go for a large aperture (2.8 will give you plenty of light a decent depth of field). In a hospital, with anything like normal lighting, you'll get brilliant pics without worrying about anything else.

You could use Auto ISO and it'd probably be fine (take a pic & see? - can't remember whether 40D has LiveView?).

Alternatively, stick the ISO at about 800 and see what shutter speed you're getting....if it's 1/60 or quicker, you'll have no bother getting nice pics.

Lower the ISO the better it'll be, obviously, but don't stress about that too much.

Also, take the picture in RAW + JPEG format as you could probably recover any mistakes you make with the RAW version if the JPEG's not quite upto it.

Good luck with it.

 

[trencheel303]

kokolino23 - don't worry about it.

Stick it on Av - go for a large aperture (2.8 will give you plenty of light a decent depth of field). In a hospital, with anything like normal lighting, you'll get brilliant pics without worrying about anything else.

You could use Auto ISO and it'd probably be fine (take a pic & see? - can't remember whether 40D has LiveView?).

Alternatively, stick the ISO at about 800 and see what shutter speed you're getting....if it's 1/60 or quicker, you'll have no bother getting nice pics.

Lower the ISO the better it'll be, obviously, but don't stress about that too much.

Also, take the picture in RAW + JPEG format as you could probably recover any mistakes you make with the RAW version if the JPEG's not quite upto it.

Good luck with it.

Good advice in general but personally I'd say 1/60 with the 50mm lens on APS-C is just about pushing it in terms of shake-free pics when there is nothing moving... for a baby who might be a bit uncomfortable and waving his/her hands about etc it will need a faster shutter speed to freeze the movement.

 

[paulhinch]

trencheel303 - True....1/60 is probably pushing it a bit. I tend to be fine handheld at that and it's fine for portraits if you need to go that slow.

To be honest, I can't see it getting down that slow though with F2.8 in a normally lit room.

 

[kokolino23]

I was trying to practice at home first and in AV mode I can only set the aperture (I went to 2) and the shutter speed is adjusted accordingly. I can't change it. I did setup the ISO to 200 but I had a blurred picture. I will try to increase this as well as the aperture until I get a proper picture.

Mark, I'll take both cameras just in case and I can ask my mum to use the other camera. I agree with what you've said but I'm hoping to get decent shots with the 40d.

Now, JD... I respect your opinion and you're a pro so I have no doubt you know what is all about. But I did some research on the net and most advices go towards not using the flash for a newborn. I don't want to take any risk.

I don't know if Tv mode will be better than Av. Either way I can set the shutter speed and the aperture is done automatically or the other way around. The picture quality is left to the ISO and I can increase that until I get a good picture. I'm not that experienced to go to M mode.

I don't have a tripod and even if I had one I wouldn't take it to the hospital.

I still have couple weeks to play with the settings and I'm confident that I can find the right settings. I can't wait to post the pictures!

 

[jimmyb]

EOS_JD... A couple of valid points thanks

I still have couple weeks to play with the settings and I'm confident that I can find the right settings. I can't wait to post the pictures!

When reviewing your images check out the info on the camera or the exif data on your computer to see what shutter speed, aperture and ISO the shot was taken at to compare and you'll soon get the hang of it.

With that and the help and advice given on here you should get some cracking shots.

 

[EOS_JD]

I was trying to practice at home first and in AV mode I can only set the aperture (I went to 2) and the shutter speed is adjusted accordingly. I can't change it. I did setup the ISO to 200 but I had a blurred picture. I will try to increase this as well as the aperture until I get a proper picture.

If you increase the aperture (number) your shutter speed will fall but lower numbers mean less of your subject is in focus. You need to make sure SS is fast enough really above anything.

Now, JD... I respect your opinion and you're a pro so I have no doubt you know what is all about. But I did some research on the net and most advices go towards not using the flash for a newborn. I don't want to take any risk.

Where did you find that? Really, flash will do no harm. I guess it's people who'e heard flash is a problem. THere are many photographers who shoot newborns.

That said I wouldn't stick the flash very close to the subject (anyone) and fire it towards their eyes as it will hurt your eyes (although still won't damage them).[/quote]

I don't know if Tv mode will be better than Av. Either way I can set the shutter speed and the aperture is done automatically or the other way around. The picture quality is left to the ISO and I can increase that until I get a good picture. I'm not that experienced to go to M mode.

Actuially it's easier to shoot in M. Take a few shots in Av or Tv - when you get an exposure that you like, take a note of the settings. Now go to M and dial in those same settings and so long as the subject is in the same light, all your images should be pretty consistent.

I still have couple weeks to play with the settings and I'm confident that I can find the right settings. I can't wait to post the pictures!

Without flash you'll need a fast prime - maybe like a 50mm f1.8 and a fairly high ISO. Make sure you focus on the eyes when shooting the face of the baby and try to be accurate as possible as the depth of field at f1.8 is very narrow particularly the closer you are to your subject.

Thanks for the comment re me being a pro I'm more of an advanced amateur now and started pretty much by asking the same questions you are now! Don't believe everything your read on the web. Look at images and look at what makes them good (or bad).

Light is everything
Get the baby in front of a large window with soft light (I think in the UK a north facing window is generally a good place to start) and you won't need flash. Basically the window will act like a softbox - Natural light before flash, and think about using a reflector if you can to add some edge.

Cheers
JD

 

[paulhinch]

kokolino23 - I think you probably need to have a play around as you say.

Understanding the different modes is probably your best idea.

Av - you set the Aperture (F2.0 will give you tiny depth of field but loads of light). The camera does everything else so you're saying "I want F2.0 aperture", the camera works out what it needs the shutter speed to be to achieve a decent picture at that. If you leave Auto ISO on, it'll balance ISO against shutter speed so that you still get a quick shutter enough shutter speed to stop blur. (If you used ISO 200, you'd need loads of light to get reasonable shutter speed).

Tv - it's effectively the same as Av except you set the shutter speed and it works the Aperture out to meet that shutter speed (so, if you say that you want 1/150 sec shutter speed, it'll look at the light and work out the aperture). The danger of that is that you'll set the shutter speed so quick that even at F1.4 (massive aperture, tiny depth of field, hardly anything in focus), you'll not have enough light to get a picture. Again, ISO works in the same way so if you keep it Auto ISO, it'll change that to help the picture out.

Manual - you control shutter speed & aperture. Clearly, that's the one that gives you most control but it takes time to set the picture up and get the exposure correct, even if you're well practised.

Av is definitely your best bet for getting a decent portrait picture. It allows you to concentrate on capturing the moment rather than messing about with camera settings.

From the test you mentioned above, I'd say your biggest issue will be that your ISO is too low. ISO200 isn't very light sensitive so you'd need loads of light to get a decent picture there (or a flash).

If you're still playing about, I'd try Av mode / F2.8 to get a reasonably safe depth of field so the subject is fully in focus then take the same picture with ISO 200, ISO400, ISO800, ISO1600 then AutoISO....you should get a feel for how the ISO can really impact what you're doing. My guess is that above 800 on a 40D, the quality might start dropping off a bit & below 800, you might struggle to get the shutter speed quick enough.

 

[kokolino23]

You're right Paul and thank for pointing this out. I did exactly what you've said before I read you comments and I came up to the same opinion.
THANKS A LOT to anyone and I can't wait to post some decent shoots!

 

[EOS_JD]

kokolino23 - I think you probably need to have a play around as you say.

Understanding the different modes is probably your best idea.

Av - you set the Aperture (F2.0 will give you tiny depth of field but loads of light). The camera does everything else so you're saying "I want F2.0 aperture", the camera works out what it needs the shutter speed to be to achieve a decent picture at that. If you leave Auto ISO on, it'll balance ISO against shutter speed so that you still get a quick shutter enough shutter speed to stop blur. (If you used ISO 200, you'd need loads of light to get reasonable shutter speed).

Tv - it's effectively the same as Av except you set the shutter speed and it works the Aperture out to meet that shutter speed (so, if you say that you want 1/150 sec shutter speed, it'll look at the light and work out the aperture). The danger of that is that you'll set the shutter speed so quick that even at F1.4 (massive aperture, tiny depth of field, hardly anything in focus), you'll not have enough light to get a picture. Again, ISO works in the same way so if you keep it Auto ISO, it'll change that to help the picture out.

Manual - you control shutter speed & aperture. Clearly, that's the one that gives you most control but it takes time to set the picture up and get the exposure correct, even if you're well practised.

Av is definitely your best bet for getting a decent portrait picture. It allows you to concentrate on capturing the moment rather than messing about with camera settings.

From the test you mentioned above, I'd say your biggest issue will be that your ISO is too low. ISO200 isn't very light sensitive so you'd need loads of light to get a decent picture there (or a flash).

If you're still playing about, I'd try Av mode / F2.8 to get a reasonably safe depth of field so the subject is fully in focus then take the same picture with ISO 200, ISO400, ISO800, ISO1600 then AutoISO....you should get a feel for how the ISO can really impact what you're doing. My guess is that above 800 on a 40D, the quality might start dropping off a bit & below 800, you might struggle to get the shutter speed quick enough.

If only it was as simple as that

In Semi-Auto modes live Tv and Av you may need to add/subtract exposure (exposure compensation) so you need to be aware when to do that.

In consistent light it's much easier and more consistent to shoot in manual, you can use Av/Tv to take a shot and if you get a good exposure, just switch to M and use those settings - now all the shots will be exposed in the same way - if the light changes you will need to tweak the exposure though.

Av/Tv works well but many times you'll find over/under exposure a problem.

 

[paulhinch]

JD - I agree Manual is better but from what's been said, he normally uses Full Auto mode.

It's a bit of a jump from using Full Auto to Full Manual and worrying about everything.

If you shoot in RAW and Av, you'll get decent pics. You're right, a few might be over / under-exposed but they'll be recoverable...they'll not be miles out. (Certainly, they'll be better than the moment that you miss cos you're using Manual and are messing around with settings you aren't quite sure of).

If it was me taking the pictures, I'd do exactly what you've suggested throughout but you need to be pretty comfortable with your gear to do that or you'll risk missing shots.

 

[EOS_JD]

Yes I can accept that - I still use Av a lot