Martin Parr, love him or hate him?

Martin Parr love or hate?

  • love

    Votes: 48 63.2%
  • hate

    Votes: 28 36.8%

  • Total voters
    76
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There's no point in taking a photograph if it conveys no message or meaning. Surely everyone must agree with that?

Not sure about message or meaning. Some photographs are purely for illustration such as the instructions for putting together a piece of flat pack furniture or how to change the ink cartridge in a printer.

In a broad sense there is a message there but it's not the same as an artistic message or meaning.


Steve.
 
I don't think every image needs to have a meaning, or story behind it, some images work just because they look damn good!
 
Not sure about message or meaning. Some photographs are purely for illustration such as the instructions for putting together a piece of flat pack furniture or how to change the ink cartridge in a printer.


Of course, but we wouldn't be questioning whether they were "good" or "bad"... they're just an illustration. So long as they're clear, we wouldn't even consider critiquing it at any level.

I don't think every image needs to have a meaning, or story behind it, some images work just because they look damn good!

They have limited appeal though... just eye candy. Like chewing gum for the eyes. Once the flavour wears off, you're left with a wodge of viscous, tasteless stuff in your mouth :) The truly great images that stand the test of time always have something more than just "wow" factor. It's hard to define that easily though, as some landscape shots don't have "meaning".. sure. I'll give you that, but they must have something of interest for the viewer.. something to make you keep coming back to it.

Don't take "meaning" too literally... I don't mean they contain some cryptic message or convoluted narrative.... but they must have some meaning beyond "I'll have a go at wire wool". It may even be the motivation of the photographer that gives it meaning... and once you know that, and realise what it is, it gives another dimension to the image. Faye Godwin is a good example. The images can be taken at face value, but once you realise what she's doing it makes you think far more deeply. She takes what appear to be classical landscapes in the main, but her remit is to document Man's influence on the landscape to highlight that we have always done this. We start to think of things as natural or not environmentally unfriendly if they are old, so shots of standing stones on Orkney actually highlight that we've been doing this for thousands of years... almost all of the British Isles indigenously, should be forest, yet we did away with that thousands of years ago as soon as we learned to farm and move away from being hunter gatherers.... yet we see the rolling British countryside as natural... it's not, it's man made. Once you KNOW this... you look again, and the images suddenly have a different meaning. They aren't just pretty.


Meaning and intent hold far more sway over whether an image is truly great. It has to be fit for purpose of course as well... but given a choice, I'd rather look at images that have clear intent and purpose, but be less than technically perfect, than the other way around.

Go and look up "the animals" by giacomo brunelli.

Technically, not perfect.... in fact... if you wanted to, you could slag them off for many technical reasons... but why would you WANT to? Look at them and tell me you're not moved! It's like wading through someone's nightmares! Seeing these beautifully printed in a gallery is a breathtaking experience.

They're not pretty... but it's amazing work.
 
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I don't think every image needs to have a meaning, or story behind it, some images work just because they look damn good!

but why do they work - what makes you go Wow?
 
It can be anything, from the location, technicality of the photo to the subject, the right photographer can transform the most uninteresting of locations into a work of art, lets take an old disused canal bridge for example, well used strobist and gel work, and some quirky light painting, and it becomes a very interesting scene, the work behind it doesn't need to tell a story as all arts are very subjective, it can be left to the viewer to decide there take on any meaning behind the photo
 
Steve Smith said:
I know, but his photography is very much of the British people of around fifty years ago.

I love the book England Observed and often borrow it from the library. One day I will buy my own copy!

So you did (well, page 2). how did I miss that?!!

Steve.

I just bought the book. It's great. Wasn't much from amazon.
Best of all at the back is some of his architecture images. The train station images are amazing, really interesting angles, shapes.
 
It can be anything, from the location, technicality of the photo to the subject, the right photographer can transform the most uninteresting of locations into a work of art, lets take an old disused canal bridge for example, well used strobist and gel work, and some quirky light painting, and it becomes a very interesting scene, the work behind it doesn't need to tell a story as all arts are very subjective, it can be left to the viewer to decide there take on any meaning behind the photo


But it would need to tell a story. If this light painting and flash work makes you feel something, or makes it look creepy, or changes the initial image in some preconceived way, then the photographer is ADDING meaning to the image, and creating a narrative. That narrative plays out in the viewer's imagination.

Therefore it has meaning.
 
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There's always a reason for doing things.. or rather, there SHOULD always be a reason for doing things.

Can that reason be as simple as to see what happens when you do something? Is there no place for chance in creative work?
 
Just looked up the animals reference. Nightmares is definitely the right description. Not sure I'd want to see a room full of those.
 
Can that reason be as simple as to see what happens when you do something? Is there no place for chance in creative work?


Oh god, yes.. of course. Look.. don't get me wrong.. I've spent as much time playing with technique as anyone else (that's how you get good). However, I realise that sooner or later, once you have mastered that technique you need to wield it for a reason or all your images just become a catalogue of technique and you become a one trick pony. Some people never move on from merely playing with the technique though.

Chance can play a part too... but you need to recognise what it is you accidentally captured. If you throw something away because the horizon wasn't straight without really thinking it through, you may never realise what you accidentally get. Once you do realise, then it may well spark off a whole creative direction you'd never have considered without the "accident" happening. Accident is very often the spark that inspires truly creative and original work, but you need the critical skills to recognise it sometimes, and that is where an appreciation of art really does come into play. ANyone obsessed with straight lines, thirds, and traditional composition is probably throwing away pure gold without realising it because they see no value in work with technical flaws. The idea is to recognise it.. then nurture it, and perfect it.


Just looked up the animals reference. Nightmares is definitely the right description. Not sure I'd want to see a room full of those.

Trust me... in a well curated gallery space... it's amazing. I sat there for three hours just staring. I went straight out and bought the book. Now when Look at that book I'm transported back to that gallery and I enjoy it over and over again.
 
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Can that reason be as simple as to see what happens when you do something? Is there no place for chance in creative work?

I use that approach regularly, Its a great way to learn, if it doesn't work, you can always change something and try again
 
The way Parr takes his images is absolutely right for what he's trying to achieve. It's a decision he's made, and it makes sense. Like it or not.. it's not crap because there's a definite reason for his choice of style. He's not playing with a technique for the sake of it... he's not seen something on Flickr and though "I'll have a go at that technique".

I don't pay much attention to other photographers because I don't really care anymore what others are doing, have no need to emulate them and no need to aspire to be like them. I don't aspire to be an artist and I'm comfortable with what I am and what I do although I do try to improve within that.

Looking though the links in this thread MP's work is plain boring. If you want me to critique it I'd say REALLY boring. Other than that any critique is going to have to be on the technical side as I can't explain why something doesn't grab my attention.

Are they crap? Don't know, don't care, they certainly don't inspire me and it doesn't look like any serious effort has been made to get the shots. They may well be the deliberate implementation of a particular style but they look like something you'd see on facebook any day. :shrug:
 
You know what, that's the most disappointing post I've seen in this or any other thread.

You nearly pull off the "I'm not really bothered, I do my own thing" angle. And that is fine.

You nearly justify your view that you find them boring by explaining that you don't aspire to be an artist, and could only comment on the technical side. And that is fine.

You should have left it there frankly.

Unless, mod, you want to refuel the debate ;)
 
I don't pay much attention to other photographers because I don't really care anymore what others are doing, have no need to emulate them and no need to aspire to be like them.

No one is suggesting anyone emulates anyone. What would be the point in that? At best you'll be a cheap facsimile of them, or an also ran.


I don't aspire to be an artist and I'm comfortable with what I am and what I do although I do try to improve within that.

No one is suggesting you have to be an artist either :) However, many people are, and fail to realise it. Many people, believe it or not, still think that photography is not, and can not be art. Clearly the latter may as well believe the earth is flat :)

Looking though the links in this thread MP's work is plain boring. If you want me to critique it I'd say REALLY boring. Other than that any critique is going to have to be on the technical side as I can't explain why something doesn't grab my attention.

Well.. critiquing Parr on a technical level is never going to work, as he deliberately chooses to use a snaphot aesthetic, but look a little deeper and it's not really. Exposures are bang on, lighting is spot on, focus is bang on... this is someone who knows what they're doing and has chosen to do what he does. Look at the early work especially... would Joe Public be using a 35mm rangefinder and ringflash? I think not.

Are they crap? Don't know, don't care, they certainly don't inspire me and it doesn't look like any serious effort has been made to get the shots.

But doesn't a true virtuoso make their craft look easy? He works harder than most photographers do anyway.

If they don't inspire you, then fine. hat's your choice. I'm not ramming Parr down anyone;s throats... you either like it, or you don't, but to dismiss it as crap (not that you did... but speaking hypothetically) is clearly demonstrating you're misinformed about it, and him.


They may well be the deliberate implementation of a particular style but they look like something you'd see on facebook any day. :shrug:

Really? You'd see that level of satire, irony and wry self-deprication on Facebook snaps? That consistency in razor sharp focus, and exposure and lighting? I think not.
 
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I don't find them boring because I don't aspire to be an artist. I find them boring because they don't tell me what the story is or what I'm supposed to get from them.
 
Oh god, yes.. of course. Look.. don't get me wrong.. I've spent as much time playing with technique as anyone else (that's how you get good). However, I realise that sooner or later, once you have mastered that technique you need to wield it for a reason or all your images just because a catalogue of technique and you become a one trick pony. Some people never move on from merely playing with the technique though.

Chance can play a part too... but you need to recognise what it is you accidentally captured. If you throw something away because the horizon wasn't straight without really thinking it through, you may never realise what you accidentally get. Once you do realise, then it may well spark off a whole creative direction you'd never have considered without the "accident" happening.

Glad to hear that. I'd be totally lost without chance helping me out once in a while! :)
 
I don't find them boring because I don't aspire to be an artist. I find them boring because they don't tell me what the story is or what I'm supposed to get from them.

Maybe some of them are supposed to be boring? Maybe that's the story?

All too often photography is used to depict and document 'interesting' things in interesting ways. If we are to have a record of society, and the world, in the round then the boring stuff ought to be documented too. And if it's boring how better to photograph it than in a boring way?

But in a strange way, a collection of photographs of mundane stuff can become interesting in its collective banality.

Where's my black polo neck gone? :D
 
Slightly OT from Parr, but relevant to the discussion relating to the reasons we take images...

I think a lot of people who use a camera in a considered manner (i.e because they want to be a photographer) are afraid to figure in context, as if it's a step too far towards being 'arty'. There are so many shots displayed on TP that have no background info, no story to tell from the photographer's angle, that the work gets lost in the deluge of work that's displayed in the different forums. If half of those works had context and back story applied, I honestly believe that more people would be inclined to think about why they're pressing the button...

I've always aimed to accompany my images with context, be it the journey to that final image or just notes to accompany the image in order to explain why I pressed the shutter. I kick myself that several of my flickr images aren't even titled - I will get round to changing that and filling in the blanks - because it matters that much to me. My images are an extension of me as a person; yes, it may be a dumb picture of a toy, lit fancily, or an image of a guy fishing, but it has a part to pay in who I am and why i continue with this picture-taking lark. Without that context and explanation the images mean nothing to no-one.

We're expressing ourselves through the action of choosing apertures, shutter speeds and whatever else we do to our camera to get exposure, so why not reveal to others our motivations for expression?

I love looking through the crit sections on TP but more often than not, I'm faced with images that although technically good, often leave me cold because there's nothing to help me understand what motivated the photographer. I really want to know why people take the shot they take. Take many of the 365-type projects... some posters openly admit that these projects are merely exercises to help them understand technique, but there are many who seem to be shooting for the sake of shooting. There's no effort to explain the shot or give context. And in many cases, the comments posted after each new image seem like some kind of love-in where it's all 'great capture' and 'nice shot' without anyone doing any digging. That really frustrates me because ultimately, if someone did ask the pertinent questions, I'm pretty sure there would be some great insight given.

A bit hypocritically, there are some images that just wow me without any backstory being present, but more often than not, I'll enquire about aspects of the image and it's great when the OP opens up and reveals info about the shot. Effectively, they're providing the backstory on demand as opposed to giving it away for free. It all works out as the same in the end though - enlightenment.
 
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Because to use that style of photography in this instance would just result in a complete load of confusing b****x that meant nothing, that's why. If you read what I said.. it was "How else should have shot it? Slow shutter, 10 stop grad, light painted HDR wire wool spinning b****x? We were talking about Martin Parr and how he should have shot his work.


You use what's appropriate. If what you want is to create a highly charged atmosphere in an old abandoned building, then HDR may well result in exactly what you need. If you want to create an image that's full of dynamics, colour and excitement, then having sparks flying everywhere may be exactly what you need too. Whatever style of imagery you want to create though, the important thing is to have a reason behind your images or it amounts to nothing, and unfortunately, a lot of wire wool images have no reason beyond the wire wool itself.

There's no point in taking a photograph if it conveys no message or meaning. Surely everyone must agree with that?

If there's no idea, and no planning, and you're using a technique for absolutely no reason other than the sake of it, then it's probably a pretty poor image. There's always a reason for doing things.. or rather, there SHOULD always be a reason for doing things.

If the image is just someone standing there spinning some wire wool, and that's all it is... then yeah.. that would be a pretty poor image. It would be poor because take the wire wool away, and you've nothing left. It's technique alone. Great for practice, but little else.

On the other hand, I saw in here recently an amazing image that used wire wool. Can't remember who took it now, but it was a bulldozer in a building site, and the wire wool work was done in such a way that it made the machine look like it was alive, and spiting fire.. it was amazing.

Besides... having said all that, I've never said you should never call an image crap.. I just maintain that not liking an image is not in itself a reason for calling it crap. If you think an image is crap, you need to be able to say WHY it's crap. If you can't say WHY it's crap, then you're not qualified to be calling it crap. Calling an image crap because it uses a snapshot style when it was purposely shot in a snapshot style is a little silly IMO. If Parr intended to create a beautifully lit, mechanically composed set of portraits, and THEN produced what he produced.. THEN it would be crap, yes.

It's not what you do, it's why, and how you do it that matters.

The way Parr takes his images is absolutely right for what he's trying to achieve. It's a decision he's made, and it makes sense. Like it or not.. it's not crap because there's a definite reason for his choice of style. He's not playing with a technique for the sake of it... he's not seen something on Flickr and though "I'll have a go at that technique".

Oh my your posts are tiring honestly, I didn't say that he would need to use any particular style to take the photo's that he has, what I was asking was how you felt that it was appropriated to describe a specific genre or type of photography as ******, this is the bit you probably will not not but I don't overly care, and that is I don't like his work, I don't find it inspiring and I cannot stand the style, it just feels far to haphazard, as others have said look on facebook you'll see a billion and one photo's like that, though that's not completely fare as the most of the ones on facebook will be OOF, noisy as hell with the worst white balance control, you can tell that the photographer being discussed he does know his way around a camera, it's just his style is one that I cannot stand....a pictures tells a thousand words but if you have to explain those words then whats the point....

"There's no point in taking a photograph if it conveys no message or meaning. Surely everyone must agree with that?"

What rubbish, why can someone not take a photo because they find it aesthetically pleasing, hell nearly every photo I've ever shot has been shot because I enjoyed it not because I was trying to tell a story, maybe because I'm in it more for the artistic rewards than the academic.

Crap photo's...If I don't like a photo that can be for any reason some times even and intangible reason (gut reaction) and if I don't like something then for me it will often become to my eyes at least crap...that's the way I live my life and none of your soap box type preaching will change that...do I think MP is crap? not entirely no, do I love his work...no I do not as on the whole I find them too busy with lot's of distractions, maybe that's because I've not looked at enough of his work, that said if the initial examples that I've seen don't inspire me to go looking for more then what chance does he have with me...

Finally..."Like it or not.. it's not crap because there's a definite reason for his choice of style." that is your opinion (y) the wonder of free speech is that your can express that, now rather than preaching at everyone that has the audacity to disagree with "the Gospel According to Pookey" why not just accept that not everyone thinks he is wonderful as you think he is, and that some of us are of the opinion that he is distractedly average
 
Thing is though Matt, listening to, and taking on board, what an academic art appreciator has to say doesn't cost anything and just might lead you somewhere.

If you take it on board, consider it and then dismiss it, you've lost nothing.

If you dismiss it out of hand you might just have lost something you hadn't before considered.

Maybe what I'm trying to get across would be better done face to face rather than in a forum. :shrug:
 
I think we are all being forcefed pookeys opinion, and like I have already stated, MP is like marmite, whether or not you like or dislike, doesn't make it a bad or crap thing, his style is not for me and I will leave it as that, however 90% of photos I take, I take because I want to, and enjoy taking them, not to tell or portray some deep message.
I do agree with pookey with that when we do take a photo, we create some sort of meaning to the outcome, the way I do with my light painting, I can create spooky, crazy, happy vibes with that photo, but they don't all have a specific meaning and tale behind them
 
I find them boring because they don't tell me what the story is or what I'm supposed to get from them.

This needs explaining?


I think a lot of people who use a camera in a considered manner (i.e because they want to be a photographer) are afraid to figure in context, as if it's a step too far towards being 'arty'. There are so many shots displayed on TP that have no background info, no story to tell from the photographer's angle, that the work gets lost in the deluge of work that's displayed in the different forums. If half of those works had context and back story applied, I honestly believe that more people would be inclined to think about why they're pressing the button...

That's absolutely bang on.

I think we are all being forcefed pookeys opinion, and like I have already stated, MP is like marmite, whether or not you like or dislike, doesn't make it a bad or crap thing,

Essentially though, that's all I've really been saying. Not liking something doesn't mean it's crap.


the way I do with my light painting, I can create spooky, crazy, happy vibes with that photo, but they don't all have a specific meaning and tale behind them

You are adding meaning then. You're taking a scene, and changing my opinion of it, and making me feel emotions I wouldn't ordinarily have towards that scene if you had shot it straight... therefore it has meaning.
 
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Thing is though Matt, listening to, and taking on board, what an academic art appreciator has to say doesn't cost anything and just might lead you somewhere.

If you take it on board, consider it and then dismiss it, you've lost nothing.

If you dismiss it out of hand you might just have lost something you hadn't before considered.

Maybe what I'm trying to get across would be better done face to face rather than in a forum. :shrug:

And as I've said Simon, maybe not in this thread but certainly in the past that academia is not for every person....honestly I take a photo because I like it....I know it's a simple minded notion but it is the way I work, do I want it to be a good photo, hell yes..I despise myself when I produce crap photo's...

I'm also one of those that does the daily photo thing, currently approaching my 800th day why did I start it...that's simple I wanted to get using my camera more, learn about it, how it worked how to get the most out of it, learn about new styles and genres of photography...why do I continue well mainly because I'm still enjoying it..but I'm still learning and I'd like to hope still improving, I'll confess that the crazy corner as we've come to know it is a bit of a love in, but there is still some genuine help given in that section and some stunning photography coming out of the section..

I'll listen to most of what anyone says, and I look at the work of most photographers, but if I don't like what I hear or what I see I draw a line under it move along...
 
Maybe what I'm trying to get across would be better done face to face rather than in a forum. :shrug:

I think that if any of the people in here sat around a table and had a discussion it would be far more civilised, and people would be far less dismissive of ideas they aren't conformable with... me included.

I do find myself in conflict with photographers more than any other creative group though. Other creatives seem far more willing to bend rules, and experiment, and they try harder to see value in things that don't follow popular opinion.

Photography seems include more anti-art opinions than any other creative group.
 
Thedodo said:
I think we are all being forcefed pookeys opinion...
force fed? There's almost a lone voice putting forward the academic view. No one is forcing you to read this thread, some think force fed is a little strong?
I'm studying for a degree through distance learning. I've just completed a personal project of how people interact with a public space, in this case my local park. Amazing how many references to other photographers you can find for inspiration, usually one leads to another. As such I've learnt there's sometimes more to think about than just the initial impression of an image.
 
Photography seems include more anti-art opinions than any other creative group.

I wonder if that is perhaps because it appears to be so reliant on equipment and technical know-how?
 

bad link but I worked it out :) Engineering background you see ;)

I hadn't seen that one and in fairness it's not entirely boring. However, for me, yes, it needs explaining. My first reaction to it is "Eh?" My second is why bother. There's nothing aesthetically appealing about that image to me, mainly due to the composition and flash.

Is that a story about litter? About a family who created litter? What is it? What on earth am I supposed to get from that?

edit: actually, don't bother, it's not that important.
 
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I wonder if that is perhaps because it appears to be so reliant on equipment and technical know-how?

I'm sure it has everything to do with it, yes.


I hadn't seen that one and in fairness it's not entirely boring. However, for me, yes, it needs explaining. My first reaction to it is "Eh?" My second is why bother. There's nothing aesthetically appealing about that image to me, mainly due to the composition and flash.


But it's not an appealing subject... so why make it appealing aesthetically? Why MUST a good image always be aesthetically pleasing?

Why bother?.... read on...

Is that a story about litter? About a family who created litter? What is it? What on earth am I supposed to get from that?

It's a social comment about the working class. It's meant to make you think why on earth people go on holiday to blackpool, or southend just to sit around stuffing their faces with chips... and furthermore, sit amongst a pile of used chip wrappers to eat their own chips, and then probably add to the pile of chip wrappers with no thought about what they've just done.

Does that not interest you?... why people do that? Do PEOPLE not interest you?

Why would anyone want to make such a thing aesthetically pleasing? It would surely lose it's power as an image. It's a documentary shot and this in your face flat lit fill flash style just confronts you head on. It's meant to unsettle you and make you feel uncomfortable. It's reality... reality is often uncomfortable.
 
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dod said:
bad link but I worked it out :) Engineering background you see ;)

I hadn't seen that one and in fairness it's not entirely boring. However, for me, yes, it needs explaining. My first reaction to it is "Eh?" My second is why bother. There's nothing aesthetically appealing about that image to me, mainly due to the composition and flash.

Is that a story about litter? About a family who created litter? What is it? What on earth am I supposed to get from that?

edit: actually, don't bother, it's not that important.

Does anyone read what I've posted? Didn't we cover this on page 1 or 2?

The bin is full of chip wrappers, as is the floor. It's juxtaposed against the family. It shouts white trash. Parr making a social comment.
 
I took the above linked photo to be of "white trash".

Like I said earlier in the thread, I looked at Martin Parr a lot at college. The guy teaching me, who was one of the guys to write the HND photography course, was a big fan. And the 2nd lecturer.

I don't think a photo's meaning or point should have to be immediately obvious. That is quite boring. But then I don't think every photos needs a meaning or point either.
 
I really struggle with this idea that photos should always be aesthetically pleasing or they are not good. How COULD you make that shot aesthetically pleasing? What dod is effectively saying is therefore, "why bother... it's not aesthetically pleasing".

Can you imagine a world where every photo had to be aesthetically pleasing or would never be published or praised? I don't want to imagine such a world... what a horrible world to live in, where the only way you could gain critical acclaim was to make pretty pictures. (shudder).

Pretty pictures can be awesome as well of course... but ONLY pretty pictures?
 
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I really struggle with this idea that photos should always be aesthetically pleasing or they are not good. How COULD you make that shot aesthetically pleasing? What dod is effectively saying is therefore, "why bother... it's not aesthetically pleasing".

Can you imagine a world where every photo had to be aesthetically pleasing or would never be published or praised? I don't want to imagine such a world... what a horrible world to live in, where the only way you could gain critical acclaim was to make pretty pictures. (shudder).

Pretty pictures can be awesome as well of course... but ONLY pretty pictures?

has anyone actually said that though?
 
I'd not come across Parr's work before this thread - I'm very grateful that it pointed me in the direction of his work, which I found to be an utter revelation in comparison to some of the utter bilgewater that passes for photography these days {rant alert/] I come from those far distant lands of film, doing your own processing, marvelling at the work of such people as Cartier-Bresson, having a camera with one 50mm lens, (the same one you used as an enlarger lens), and spending hours in a blacked-out bathroom to produce one cracking 16x12 toned print - since those days photography has become far easier, the equipment far more affordable, and what would have taken days (or was completely impossible) in a darkroom now takes minutes on a computer - at the end of the day, has it improved photography? - To my mind, not a lot - Parr is definitely up there amongst the other big names - his work has flair, originality, and that indefinable "eye for a picture" which all the tutoring in the world can never teach. Sadly, far too much work these days is dull, formulaic, and often (in the case of some "sleb" wedding photographers) talentless, over-Photoshopped "king's new clothes" rubbish, and there's an army of "me too-ers" keen to emulate them by buying a similar set of invisible clothing....... Really glad to have discovered Parr, was beginning to think that the last people to take meaningful photographs were the likes of Cartier-Bresson.....[/rant paused]
 
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has anyone actually said that though?


Yes.. dod did...


....why bother. There's nothing aesthetically appealing about that image to me, mainly due to the composition and flash.

Thats' saying, why bother taking it... it's not aesthetically pleasing.
 
bad link but I worked it out :) Engineering background you see ;)

I hadn't seen that one and in fairness it's not entirely boring. However, for me, yes, it needs explaining. My first reaction to it is "Eh?" My second is why bother. There's nothing aesthetically appealing about that image to me, mainly due to the composition and flash.

Is that a story about litter? About a family who created litter? What is it? What on earth am I supposed to get from that?

edit: actually, don't bother, it's not that important.

Yes.. dod did...




Thats' saying, why bother taking it... it's not aesthetically pleasing.

Well done on picking out the wonderful words you wanted there and then putting them in your own order that you wanted to read them in :clap: Dod said nothing about only wanting to take aesthetically pleasing images

to save you to time of mis quoting me to read what you want to read..

Matt said "Your wonderful, Well done" :cautious: :tumbleweed:
 
OK.. well, firstly, it may be wise to let dod respond, but for clarity, here's the entire sentence.

My second is why bother. There's nothing aesthetically appealing about that image to me, mainly due to the composition and flash.

What other meaning did it have? I'm not suggesting dod thinks that you should never, ever take a shot that wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but it does suggest that a shot that isn't aesthetically pleasing can never be good... why else say "Why bother"? You generally say "Why bother" to do something if you feel it's a waste of your time to do so.
 
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Too much negativity in what should be a sensible debate. Please all take a few minutes to take a deep breath....
 
OK.. well, firstly, it may be wise to let dod respond, but for clarity, here's the entire sentence.



What other meaning did it have? I'm not suggesting dod thinks that you should never, ever take a shot that wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but it does suggest that a shot that isn't aesthetically pleasing can never be good... why else say "Why bother"? You generally say "Why bother" to do something if you feel it's a waste of your time to do so.

Okay you want to pick it apart?? okay I'm up for that this evening...

My second is why bother. There's nothing aesthetically appealing about that image to me, mainly due to the composition and flash.

There's the key to that sentence nice and bold for you that one photo, we're talking about one photo in this instance not every aesthetically displeasing image ever shot
 
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