Medium format or just 35mm?

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Dammit. Ha. Is that true about the people? one of the images I see they seem quite happy! I have always lusted after a Rollei but then would I go 3.5 or 2.8!?

It’s not generally true. We found the Vietnamese absolutely lovely, and not everyone is camera shy by any means. But there were a few places where it felt very awkward taking people pictures. The worst were a couple of markets where literally everyone put their hand in front of their faces when I lifted the camera up. I resorted to shooting from the hip. Quite a few of the tribes people up North weren’t happy having their portraits taken either, but I’m guessing that was more to do with wanting payment.

3.5F would be my choice as it’s lighter and slightly more compact.
 
120 > 135

Plaubel Makina 67, Fuji GF670, Mamiya 6, and/or Lomo LC-A 120 for compact or lightweight 120.

I also own a Rolleiflex 2.8E, but no longer travel with it since purchasing the Makina, which has much smaller footprint, is much faster to operate, and is much easier to load.
 
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Gareth,

if you are happy with 35mm, the Leica & F3 will make great travel companions! (Two of the most desirable cameras ever IMO)

See how you go before buying MF again would be my advice TBH
 
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120 > 135

Plaubel Makina 67, Fuji GF670, Mamiya 6, and/or Lomo LC-A 120 for compact or lightweight 120.

I also own a Rolleiflex 2.8E, but no longer travel with it since purchasing the Makina, which has much smaller footprint, is much faster to operate, and is much easier to load.

No doubt 120 is better in some respests but 35mm does have a certain quality for me which I do like.

QFT tbh

Mamiya 6

failing that, I'd take what I did have, and I know Fujilove has already mentioned it but for me its a commmmmmplete no brainer.

Well the 67ii is definitely going as it's on eBay so I wil probably just wtick with 35mm for a little while. Although I do know where there's a nice Mamiya 6 for sale.

Gareth,

if you are happy with 35mm, the Leica & F3 will make great travel companions! (Two of the most desirable cameras ever IMO)

See how you go before buying MF again would be my advice TBH

Yeah I think I will. I have two excellent 35mm cameras there, possibly two of the best (subjective) ever made.
 
120 has it's uses for sure - chiefly if you want prints >A3 with fine grain. Anything else, 35mm is cheaper and more flexible.

Sort of. But not entirely true. I find medium format negatives are much more flexible and easy to use in an enlarger (remembering that Gareth has just built a home darkroom). MF gives you much more ability to crop the negative and can give you a telephoto lens without having to carry one. I can clearly see the difference between a 35mm and MF negative in a 8"x10" print.
 
120 has it's uses for sure - chiefly if you want prints >A3 with fine grain. Anything else, 35mm is cheaper and more flexible.

135 format only offers the 3:2 aspect ratio, which is completely inflexible and a deal breaker for me.
 
Sort of. But not entirely true. I find medium format negatives are much more flexible and easy to use in an enlarger (remembering that Gareth has just built a home darkroom). MF gives you much more ability to crop the negative and can give you a telephoto lens without having to carry one. I can clearly see the difference between a 35mm and MF negative in a 8"x10" print.

Not just that, its the sheer enjoyment you get out of using something like a Rollei. It feels special (to me) and while I liked my Leica's I got more pleasure using my rollei.
 
Sort of. But not entirely true. I find medium format negatives are much more flexible and easy to use in an enlarger (remembering that Gareth has just built a home darkroom). MF gives you much more ability to crop the negative and can give you a telephoto lens without having to carry one. I can clearly see the difference between a 35mm and MF negative in a 8"x10" print.

Just built is a bit of a reach. In progress is more like it! Ha.

Buy it, take it to Vietnam, sell it if it doesn't demand to be kept. You'll not lose much, if anything.

True of most film cameras, fortunately. Keeping my options open but might enjoy having the money to travel from the 67.

135 format only offers the 3:2 aspect ratio, which is completely inflexible and a deal breaker for me.

Or 2.7:1 in the case of the Xpan. A camera I would love to learn how to use properly.
 
Not just that, its the sheer enjoyment you get out of using something like a Rollei. It feels special (to me) and while I liked my Leica's I got more pleasure using my rollei.
This is so true Simon - I keep saying a large proportion of my enjoyment is actually using the camera
 
135 format only offers the 3:2 aspect ratio, which is completely inflexible and a deal breaker for me.

Yes, you generally have to crop off both sides of the negative when printing 35mm full size on standard papers. Same as when you shoot 6x6, but those negatives are so big that it doesn't matter.
 
A holiday in Vietnam would provide the locations and time to learn :)

Ha. Very true, although I can't take too much stuff. This whole thing is about less, not more. May even let the Xpan go soon.
 
Time for the annual 'I need to get an XPan' inspiration set:

http://www.davidguttenfelder.com/#/inside-the-cult-of-kim-2/
Wow - what a portfolio. Thanks for sharing. Bookmarked it for future browsing.

Dammit! Not helping whatsoever. :D

Maybe I will take the Xpan and EITHER the Leica/F3T to Vietnam (would be the Leica if it came to that). I could always shoot the Xpan at 3:2, it's one downfall there is F4, but during the day I am sure that's more than fine. :)
 
Dammit! Not helping whatsoever. :D

Maybe I will take the Xpan and EITHER the Leica/F3T to Vietnam (would be the Leica if it came to that). I could always shoot the Xpan at 3:2, it's one downfall there is F4, but during the day I am sure that's more than fine. :)

Not a bad idea. Then you don't have to take two different types of film.

Got to say though, if it was me, I'd take just the Xpan and a small back-up 35mm camera in case the Xpan died (in my case this would be my XA2). That way I wouldn't be messing with two cameras and trying to decide which one to use. Camera-swapping is worse than lens-swapping when you're on holiday and should be enjoying yourself while looking for good photos.

I shot the Xpan exclusively in Iceland and we had some dark, wet days. I didn't find the f4 lens limiting with ISO 400 film (Portra and T-Max).
 
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If you take the Xpan you can just use standard frame and then panorama as the shot requires,the only down on that is cutting once you have developed.

Two camera,s in one and I am confident that in Vietnam starting at f4 will not be a problem.

Have a great holiday.
 
Yeah—most important thing: have a great holiday :)

My missus is out there for work in a couple of months, but I have to stay home. Gutted!
 
If you take the Xpan you can just use standard frame and then panorama as the shot requires,the only down on that is cutting once you have developed.

Two camera,s in one and I am confident that in Vietnam starting at f4 will not be a problem.

Have a great holiday.
Yeah—most important thing: have a great holiday :)

My missus is out there for work in a couple of months, but I have to stay home. Gutted!

Thanks both. Maybe you're correct. I will probably take the Leica too as it is only small and leave the F3/T at home. Although it's fast aperture would be great at night time.

We won't be going till mid/late summer once we book and plan it all this weekend. Have a few days in Bulgaria before that.

Had a moment yesterday when I nearly decided to keep the 67 but it will definitely be going. I see some peoples 35mm shots which are beautiful and it reminds me that it's not the format but the photographer.
 
In Vietnam I am not sure that fast apertures will be of that much benefit at night. There is not a great deal of night time light and therefore long exposures will be needed
and whether you shot at one second or six seconds the camera will need to be set down or on a tripod take a small Gorilla pod,if you have not got one let me know I will send you one on loan,great to wrap around tree branch or railing any thing like that.

If you are in a major conurbation then there will be a lot of neon lighting so hopefully not a problem.
 
In Vietnam I am not sure that fast apertures will be of that much benefit at night. There is not a great deal of night time light and therefore long exposures will be needed
and whether you shot at one second or six seconds the camera will need to be set down or on a tripod take a small Gorilla pod,if you have not got one let me know I will send you one on loan,great to wrap around tree branch or railing any thing like that.

If you are in a major conurbation then there will be a lot of neon lighting so hopefully not a problem.

Very kind, thank you. It was more of the neons in cities I was hoping for at night. Will be handholding and using an 800 speed film or even super grainy 3200! Tripod is just too much hassle for me and doesn't work well with how I like to shoot.

I DID get a gorilla pod from my secret Santa this year on Emulsive!
 
800 plus Neon = Success :)
 
120 > 135. You can shoot 135 with your medium format camera, not the other way around!
Kidding aside, having fewer shots per roll means I get to process them more frequently. One of my cameras has a roll of Velvia 50 that has been staying at exp. #16 for at least half a year now...
 
Your choice is your choice. I'm sure that we have different approaches, different subjects and treatments and different histories/experiences.

My own history is one of failing to produce quality prints from 35mm, and having negatives that constantly remind me of this. I will admit that using 35mm for the first time in years on the F & C trip to Scotland last year, I was surprised that the results were as good as they were, but not enough to convert me. If I want a small light camera that will take my 35mm system lenses, I'll use a Sony a7r2 and get better quality than 35mm.

On that basis, as I've now ruled out 35mm, there's only one film size left of the two. Now it's difficult. I've been using a Bronica ETRS and finding it small, light and good handling; but if I could only have one camera, I'd go with one I don't own, and choose the RB67 Pro SD (over my RZ67 simply because of batteries).

If I could only have one film camera, my choice would be either my Canham DLC45 or Walker Titan. Almost certainly the Walker.

I might consider the choices again as I get older and more frail, but at the moment I'm only 70 and find no horrors in the thought of carrying both my RZ67 and LF if necessary.

One last point; we were on holiday in Scotland 3 years or so ago, and that was the last time (apart from the special case of the F & C meetup) that I took all formats. 35mm was the only one I didn't use.
 
Your choice is your choice. I'm sure that we have different approaches, different subjects and treatments and different histories/experiences.

My own history is one of failing to produce quality prints from 35mm, and having negatives that constantly remind me of this. I will admit that using 35mm for the first time in years on the F & C trip to Scotland last year, I was surprised that the results were as good as they were, but not enough to convert me. If I want a small light camera that will take my 35mm system lenses, I'll use a Sony a7r2 and get better quality than 35mm.

On that basis, as I've now ruled out 35mm, there's only one film size left of the two. Now it's difficult. I've been using a Bronica ETRS and finding it small, light and good handling; but if I could only have one camera, I'd go with one I don't own, and choose the RB67 Pro SD (over my RZ67 simply because of batteries).

If I could only have one film camera, my choice would be either my Canham DLC45 or Walker Titan. Almost certainly the Walker.

I might consider the choices again as I get older and more frail, but at the moment I'm only 70 and find no horrors in the thought of carrying both my RZ67 and LF if necessary.

One last point; we were on holiday in Scotland 3 years or so ago, and that was the last time (apart from the special case of the F & C meetup) that I took all formats. 35mm was the only one I didn't use.

Interesting to hear your views and reasons, so thanks for sharing. It's interesting how you seem to say you failed to produce quality prints from 35mm. As I said in the original post, I have Steve McCurry's book here in A3 and it's just beautiful to look at and they would have been 35mm shots.

Also interesting how you make the statement that the Sony a7r2 is better 'quality' than 35mm. It's not that simple to me to define quality as we all see different value in different things. I have ruled out digital for as long as I can see me doing photography. Quality for me is quantified in more than just things like sharpness or megapixels.

The pull of a Hasselblad is still strong and I am pretty sure I will own one again in the future, perhaps if the right one presents itself and I can't say no to it. I follow some amazing photographers on Instagram who shoot and print from 35mm and their work is stunning. I have also been reading a book with work from Saul Leiter as well as a huge Joel Meyorowitz book which has 35mm to large format work in and it's all amazing (I don't care much for his still life stuff but that's my problem, not his).

Large format is something I will revisit in the future also, without a doubt. Ultimately though, I am trying to think less about which camera to take out with me which is why I am selling some off and simplifying my equipment at the moment. Focussing on a single format for a while will hopefully help me shoot more decisively. If I could really get it down to a single body, I would but the F3/t and 35Ti are just beautiful things that I don't want to part with as I fear once they are gone, they are gone. But then again, they are just things and things don't create the moments.

Edited to say, someone made a good statement in this thread about having too many formats and then trying to decide which to use for a given situation. A problem I have addressed in the past with regards to lenses by just having a single focal length. It even unsettles me that I have two focal lengths at the moment for the Leica. With limitations come creativity.
 
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I'd very much like to come back on your second paragraph above, and expand on my reasons; but at the moment I'm about to go where the internet don't shine - eating out with no connection! "Quality" is a big topic.
 
"Quality" is really an imprecise term; it covers a lot of different things. It doesn't always have a low/high divide either. In my case what I'm looking for is sharpness, resolution and tonal range.

On sharpness, digital will usually win as it's an either/or in terms of resolution. Film will fade gradually away, whereas digital will suddenly cut out. I've observed this on photos - whereas a distant small boat will have an indistinct outline on film (I'm assuming enlargement) on digital it will either not be there at all, or will have a sharp but blocky shape. Visually, this will subjectively appear sharper, even though less detail is present. The same effect occurs with film, where shsrply resolved grain will creat a better illusion of sharpness thsn a fine grained print, other things being equal.

Resolution comes down to enlargement. Physics dictates that even a perfect lens doesn't give infinite resolution, and the more you enlarge the more you "dilute" the detail density. Our eyes require a certain amount of resolved detail to give an impression of sharpness. Yes, you can get away with less. But put two photos side by side, one with more and one with less detail, and you can tell the difference. In my case, I know what a print from medium and large format looks like, and 35mm doesn't cut it for me.

Last year, I made some A4 and A3 prints from 35mm Kodachrome slides taken using Olympus lenses on an OM1/OM2. The quality surprised me as it was better than I expected, but it still fell short of 120.

Tonal range almost comes down to tonal transitions, and again, the more you enlarge the worse it will get. Taken to extremes, the ultimate enlargement is represented by an electron microscope image of a negative, and that is just black and white. It's the newspaper dots again.

Not all photographs require these qualities; it's just that what I do requires them to satisfy me. And I'm the only person I intend to satisfy.

So the quick summary is that given the same lenses, the illusion of sharness that digital has built in would give it the advantage over 35mm - as it's a full frame camera, the degree of enlargement is the same. I haven't actually calculated how many lppm the a7r2 has based on pixel per mm, and I may do do now. But my guess is that it's higher than many films, giving another advantage over 35mm.

Hence my conclusion that unless I want to use 35mm cameras, digital is better for me.

I can't let it rest just there though. I can detect a different quality (there's that word again) in digital black and white to medium and large format black and white, at least at my print sizes which are A3 and A2; and the film images are better to my eyes. Hence my continued use of roll and cut film.

I'll apologise now for typos, as this is being painfully tapped in on a tablet.:)
 
"Quality" is really an imprecise term; it covers a lot of different things. It doesn't always have a low/high divide either. In my case what I'm looking for is sharpness, resolution and tonal range.

On sharpness, digital will usually win as it's an either/or in terms of resolution. Film will fade gradually away, whereas digital will suddenly cut out. I've observed this on photos - whereas a distant small boat will have an indistinct outline on film (I'm assuming enlargement) on digital it will either not be there at all, or will have a sharp but blocky shape. Visually, this will subjectively appear sharper, even though less detail is present. The same effect occurs with film, where shsrply resolved grain will creat a better illusion of sharpness thsn a fine grained print, other things being equal.

Resolution comes down to enlargement. Physics dictates that even a perfect lens doesn't give infinite resolution, and the more you enlarge the more you "dilute" the detail density. Our eyes require a certain amount of resolved detail to give an impression of sharpness. Yes, you can get away with less. But put two photos side by side, one with more and one with less detail, and you can tell the difference. In my case, I know what a print from medium and large format looks like, and 35mm doesn't cut it for me.

Last year, I made some A4 and A3 prints from 35mm Kodachrome slides taken using Olympus lenses on an OM1/OM2. The quality surprised me as it was better than I expected, but it still fell short of 120.

Tonal range almost comes down to tonal transitions, and again, the more you enlarge the worse it will get. Taken to extremes, the ultimate enlargement is represented by an electron microscope image of a negative, and that is just black and white. It's the newspaper dots again.

Not all photographs require these qualities; it's just that what I do requires them to satisfy me. And I'm the only person I intend to satisfy.

So the quick summary is that given the same lenses, the illusion of sharness that digital has built in would give it the advantage over 35mm - as it's a full frame camera, the degree of enlargement is the same. I haven't actually calculated how many lppm the a7r2 has based on pixel per mm, and I may do do now. But my guess is that it's higher than many films, giving another advantage over 35mm.

Hence my conclusion that unless I want to use 35mm cameras, digital is better for me.

I can't let it rest just there though. I can detect a different quality (there's that word again) in digital black and white to medium and large format black and white, at least at my print sizes which are A3 and A2; and the film images are better to my eyes. Hence my continued use of roll and cut film.

I'll apologise now for typos, as this is being painfully tapped in on a tablet.:)

Good post...h'mm but the price of A7r2 and what for:- sharper photos or whatever, that amount of money is more than my entire collection of MF and 35mm film cameras and lenses and for me I would get more fun from all my gear than if I had one A7R2.
 
Good post...h'mm but the price of A7r2 and what for:- sharper photos or whatever, that amount of money is more than my entire collection of MF and 35mm film cameras and lenses and for me I would get more fun from all my gear than if I had one A7R2.

If you print to A3 and are happy with the image quality then there's no issue. When film was all there was, I moved to MF because I didn't feel 35mm prints looked good enough for serious work.
 
If you print to A3 and are happy with the image quality then there's no issue. When film was all there was, I moved to MF because I didn't feel 35mm prints looked good enough for serious work.

Agreed... I moved to MF in the past because of less problems with spots and quality in the darkroom...but it's just me when it's a "huh" for what people spend for expensive digi cameras or even e.g. special film Leicas...the biggest "huh" would be for a MF digi camera o_O
OK I'm in a time warp when a pound was a pound :LOL:
 
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Agreed... I moved to MF in the past because of less problems with spots and quality in the darkroom...but is just me when it's a "huh" for what people spend for expensive digi cameras or even e.g. special film Leicas...the biggest "huh" would be for a MF digi camera o_O
OK I'm in a time warp when a pound was a pound :LOL:

There's a couple of D600s in the classifieds for £400 each, and if I move the D610 on it will only be a little more. I'd put D610 print quality a little above my Bronica ETR system. Recently bought a film camera, and would have liked a Nikon FE2 or FA, but prices for those bodies are well into used DSLR territory.
 
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There's a couple of D600s in the classifieds for £400 each, and if I move the D610 on it will only be a little more. I'd put D610 print quality a little above my Bronica ETR system. Recently bought a film camera, and would have liked a Nikon FE2 or FA, but prices for those bodies are well into used DSLR territory.

There you go you can get by with cheaper digis than say an A7R2, but then I think most of us here agree it's all about horses for courses and fun time and "work time" when mixing film and digi gear.
 
There you go you can get by with cheaper digis than say an A7R2, but then I think most of us here agree it's all about horses for courses and fun time and "work time" when mixing film and digi gear.

Most maybe, not all. I shot a portrait session with an Architect yesterday entirely on film. :)

So....after all this thread (very helpful thanks), guess who didn't sell the 67ii in the end? Me, that's who. Shot yesterday a full portrait session and now I need to decide if I will take it on my impending trip to Bulgaria. I probably will as it's a trip with a single hotel and car as well as some hiking (I have a small camera backpack). Shame I sold all of my Portra and Ektar and now have to buy more. Oh well, live and learn. :)
 
Most maybe, not all. I shot a portrait session with an Architect yesterday entirely on film. :)

So....after all this thread (very helpful thanks), guess who didn't sell the 67ii in the end? Me, that's who. Shot yesterday a full portrait session and now I need to decide if I will take it on my impending trip to Bulgaria. I probably will as it's a trip with a single hotel and car as well as some hiking (I have a small camera backpack). Shame I sold all of my Portra and Ektar and now have to buy more. Oh well, live and learn. :)

:D

Very glad to hear it...Speaking as someone who has bought and sold 67 gear twice before, and regretted it both times.
 
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