Beginner Medium hard tap water for film rinsing/washing - Cinestill Df96

thewiccaman

thewiccaman

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First, apologies as I know this has been answered in various forms before but I can't seem to find a definitive answer adding to my confusion.

I am going to be developing b&w film for the first time using Cinestill Df96 monobath.

My question is [hopefully!] simple: can I do all the rinsing with just tap water - mine is medium hard - or do I need a specialised rinse as well, or use distilled water, for the final rinse? Or will tap water be enough throughout the rinsing process?

Many thanks.
 
Assuming that the instructions for the monobath (I've never used one) don't specify otherwise, tap water should be fine, with one caveat. If the water is hard, it means that it leaves lime scale behind, and that means drying marks on the film where the last droplets remained to evaporate. You can risk scratches by using a squeegee or your fingers, but I'd recomment a final rinse in purified water with wetting agent (which is designed to reduce the surface tension of the water and prevent/reduce droplets forming.
 
P.S. If the final rinse takes place in the developing tank, rinse that out afterwards to reduce the wetting agent there. I've never experienced it myself, but apparently in can build up and make Paterson spirals harder to load. But this is internet hearsay - as I say, I've not experienced it. On the other hand, I haven't used a Paterson spiral in years :)
 
StephenM said:
Assuming that the instructions for the monobath (I've never used one) don't specify otherwise, tap water should be fine, with one caveat. If the water is hard, it means that it leaves lime scale behind, and that means drying marks on the film where the last droplets remained to evaporate. You can risk scratches by using a squeegee or your fingers, but I'd recomment a final rinse in purified water with wetting agent (which is designed to reduce the surface tension of the water and prevent/reduce droplets forming.
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Thanks. I think I may try without for the first film and just use tap water as an experiment to see if I do encounter issues. Ilford Ilfotol was recommended as an alternative to 'Photo-flo' and I have added it to my Amazon wish list to buy if I do have issues.
 
When I lived in Yorkshire, it was a soft water area (as a counterbalance to the hard people I suppose :) ) and I used tap water throughout and no wetting agent. Since moving to the soft south (Sussex) the water counterbalances again by being hard. Since moving here, I've always used purified water for mixing developer and the final rinse, which does have wetting agent.

You could soften the water somewhat by boiling and letting it cool, as this causes one of the hardening agents to precipitate. Whether this works depends on the source of your hard water...
 
I live in a soft water area and use tap water with a final 2-minute wash in a wetting agent solution and I still sometimes get drying marks. I now give the film a good shake to remove as much excess as possible before hanging it to dry, and then dip my fingers in the wetting agent and then "squeegee" it with my fingers. I've not had any scratches (or any more drying marks) since using this method, but maybe I have soft fingers. :)
 
I always used tap water. In my area the analysis shows it is just the hard side of neutral but locals (particularly those from other areas) insist it is hard water. I always used a wetting agent anyway as suggested by Stephen.

Dave
 
I live in a soft water area but I'm not sure of the ph of the tap water and whether it will affect the devoper so I use de-ionized water (from Sainsbury's as it happens, about £1/2.5 litres) to mix the developer and filtered tap water for everything else. I've got a Paterson water filter which traps the big lumps of whatever from the tap water. Final rinse is with filtered tap water and wetting agent. No problems with drying marks. To avoid potential problems with drying marks from hard water maybe you should consider a final rinse with de-ionized water and wetting agent. Drying marks are a beast to remove from scanned film.
 
The consensus seems to be wetting agent pretty much necessary for the final rinse then?
 
thewiccaman said:
The consensus seems to be wetting agent pretty much necessary for the final rinse then?
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If I am going to be using a wetting agent in the final rinse, which one do people recommended: Ilford Ilfotol or Photo-flo?
 
Not a recommendation, but I use the Ilford one simply because I could buy it off the shelf in my local shop (and it lasts an age!). I doubt that there's any practical difference.
 
I use Photoflo for no very good reason. I think I put 2 ml in for a 500ml wash. At this rate my executors are gonna have to work out who to give the rest to!

FishyFish said:
I believe that wetting agent is basically just washing-up liquid with all the additives removed (scent, colouring etc.), so whichever one you can get the best deal on should be fine.
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I've no idea where, but I seem to remember a post saying emphatically it is not washing up liquid (which I have indeed used on a few occasions before getting the Photoflo)...
 
Seems like Photo-flo is going to be the better value cost-wise for me, around £10 ish for ½ a litre. I know that Ilford Ilfotol come is 1 litre bottles but I don't think I would use it all after it's opened so would end up being thrown out.

I think on reflection with the good advice here, I'll go with the Photo-flo [I did not mean to pun it, just a lucky accident :D ]
 
thewiccaman said:
Seems like Photo-flo is going to be the better value cost-wise for me, around £10 ish for ½ a litre. I know that Ilford Ilfotol come is 1 litre bottles but I don't think I would use it all after it's opened so would end up being thrown out.

I think on reflection with the good advice here, I'll go with the Photo-flo [I did not mean to pun it, just a lucky accident :D ]
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I've just bought Photo flo from these guys, very good price, less than £11 delivered. Considerably cheaper than Ilford Ilfotol. I'll be processing the film using Cinestill Df96.

In the words of the song: 'A Whole New World', for me anyway!
 
thewiccaman said:
Seems like Photo-flo is going to be the better value cost-wise for me, around £10 ish for ½ a litre. I know that Ilford Ilfotol come is 1 litre bottles but I don't think I would use it all after it's opened so would end up being thrown out.

I think on reflection with the good advice here, I'll go with the Photo-flo [I did not mean to pun it, just a lucky accident :D ]
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Why would you throw it out? Or do the modern wetting agents have a limited shelf life after opening?

Come to think of it, if they're now being sold in such phenomenal quantities, something must have changed. The old recommendation was one or two drops - a literal drip volume - per litre, and dire warnings about exceeding the stated dose. Paterson sold wetting agent in small plastic bottles about three inches high, and slim oval cross section. A small hole in the top after removing the cap let me squeeze gently to get my drips.
 
StephenM said:
Why would you throw it out? Or do the modern wetting agents have a limited shelf life after opening?

Come to think of it, if they're now being sold in such phenomenal quantities, something must have changed. The old recommendation was one or two drops - a literal drip volume - per litre, and dire warnings about exceeding the stated dose. Paterson sold wetting agent in small plastic bottles about three inches high, and slim oval cross section. A small hole in the top after removing the cap let me squeeze gently to get my drips.
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I'm sure I read somewhere there is a limited shelf life after opening. I may well be mistaken. Either way, It's going to last plenty long enough.
 
I'm going to have to take a look at my bottle! But not now, as one of our cats has just settled down on me :)
 
StephenM said:
I'm going to have to take a look at my bottle! But not now, as one of our cats has just settled down on me :)
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A problem I'm all too familiar with myself :LOL:
 
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StephenM said:
Why would you throw it out? Or do the modern wetting agents have a limited shelf life after opening?

Come to think of it, if they're now being sold in such phenomenal quantities, something must have changed. The old recommendation was one or two drops - a literal drip volume - per litre, and dire warnings about exceeding the stated dose. Paterson sold wetting agent in small plastic bottles about three inches high, and slim oval cross section. A small hole in the top after removing the cap let me squeeze gently to get my drips.
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I'm still using the 500ml bottle of Ilfotol I bought well over 15 years ago, and using it a few drops at a time like you Stephen. It does seem to have sprung a leak behind the label recently, but only if you tip that side over when adding the drops.

I use Photoflo for no very good reason. I think I put 2 ml in for a 500ml wash. At this rate my executors are gonna have to work out who to give the rest to!
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I can confidently predict that I would never use a litre in the future! ;)
 
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