Memory cards (not what you think)

You have diverted the discussion to fake memory cards and still can't answer why a real or fake card would actually cause any damage to the computer. And if a fake card can cause damage to the computer at any stage it is nothing to do with how it is ejected or not.

But we do agree on one thing, it is indeed boring.
 
Last edited:
Because you are physically pulling a live connection. The only reason I ever mentioned fake cards was to bring up substandard / QC. You shouldn't have problems if the standards have been strictly adhered to but why take the chance.

It is pretty much like just yanking out the power to a standard hard drive or SSD without cutting the power first. 99.999% of the time you won't do any harm but there is still a chance of a short or power surge.

They give you the facility to cut the power for a reason so I will continue to use it. With my luck I will be the one to hit the 0.001% (or whatever the real % are).
 
Porsupah said:
The issue isn't power-related. Rather, it's how the host computer implements the filesystem - the magic being the issue of caching. If you write a file to a device, be it a hard drive or SD Card, the data might indeed all be written and the file closed - but not necessarily. Depending on what other activities are going on, the changes might not actually occur until some point in the near future. This is why a sudden loss of power on most computers means the system will check the disk next time it powers up, as there's the possibility then that not quite everything was actually written out, potentially leaving the filesystem in an inconsistent state.

Thus, a "safe eject" simply ensures that everything's completed and committed, before the device is unmounted.

If you're designing a camera, you simply implement the filesystem routines such that there's never any data left uncommitted - it gets written out as soon as possible. Hence, there's no need for such a "safe eject" on cameras.

^^^ this

Properly ejecting a card ensures that all data that's supposed to be written to the device, is written before the volume is unmounted.

On the Mac, there's a bit of history involved too. In the olden days of floppy disks, Macs had powered eject mechanisms for their floppy drives - there was no hardware eject button (apart from a pinhole for emergency use). The ONLY way to remove a floppy was via the GUI software. This ensured you didn't eject the boot disk when the OS needed it, or, for the reasons outlined above, to avoid corruption of data on the volume being ejected.

Since Mac floppies were labeled by the OS from the start, it also meant you were able to copy data from one disk to another with only a single floppy drive, by ejecting the disk, but leaving its ghost on the desktop for later use even though it wasn't physically mounted. This could involve a lot of disk swapping if you were short on RAM, as it had to read the files into memory before writing them out to the target floppy. Still, it saved having to have multiple floppy drives for just occasional use.*


This carried on with Apple's built-in optical media drives (CDs, then DVDs) being equipped with motors to draw in and eject the media.

The same software eject routines and metaphor was also used for hard drives and, latterly, USB data cards and flash drives.

* IIRC DOS wasn't particularly fussy about what was in the A drive until you came to read a file. If you swapped the floppy beneath it, it could cause some problems. I stopped using it around DOS 3, so I am rather vague on the point.
 
Last edited:
The issue isn't power-related. Rather, it's how the host computer implements the filesystem - the magic being the issue of caching.

Absolutely correct. To be safe I always disable write-caching for USB sticks and memory cards - LINK

For those who believe that using the 'Safely remove...' option in a PC shuts off the power to the card reader:cuckoo: How does the computer know when another card has been inserted?
 
Last edited:
Hmmm, I usually plug my card into my reader and then plug my reader into my PC. When I plug it into my PC, two small lights light up - one red and one blue - I don't know what they signify. In my Ubuntu set-up, when the volume is mounted, it appears on the desktop as a drive and I can right-click on it and select 'Safely eject drive' from the menu. As soon as I click on the eject drive option, the blue light turns red but both lights remain on. If I power down the PC with the card reader still plugged in, the blue light turns red and both lights remain lit. I 'eject' before removing my cards, my USB external HDDs or my USB sticks.
 
as said, safely remove hardware does not power down the device. it just tells you when all read/write operations are complete.

which, if youre just copying the contents of the card to your machine should be fairly obvious when done anyway but i always give it an extra 30s after the copy is complete anyway before pulling it. the card then gets formatted in the camera before next use.
 
Last edited:
:cuckoo:

Or blowing the USB port, or even worse the motherboard.


Have a look at this, you might find it interesting. The fact is they do just invent this sort of thing so that people can just pull things out without powering down. That was one of the main reasons USB was invented the way it was.
Even with the on board card readers, most of them are connected to the motherboard by the USB pins for this very reason so even the multiple types of cards can be plugged in and removed anytime.
I've been using computers for nearly 20 years and building computers for more than 15 years and the only damage I've ever seen to USB ports on motherboards are bent and broken pins. I've never yet blown up any motherboards or seen any blown USB ports on any motherboards and I've used diagnostic hard and software on thousands of motherboards. The safely remove hardware tool was only introduced to Windows XP to finish the caching of files immediatly and not waiting until the next restart. It also reduces the amount of power going to the port but there is always residual power available to the port so that it knows when another drive or card is inserted, well that's what my university professor used to tell us anyway.
 
Have a look at this, you might find it interesting. The fact is they do just invent this sort of thing so that people can just pull things out without powering down. That was one of the main reasons USB was invented the way it was.
Even with the on board card readers, most of them are connected to the motherboard by the USB pins for this very reason so even the multiple types of cards can be plugged in and removed anytime.
I've been using computers for nearly 20 years and building computers for more than 15 years and the only damage I've ever seen to USB ports on motherboards are bent and broken pins. I've never yet blown up any motherboards or seen any blown USB ports on any motherboards and I've used diagnostic hard and software on thousands of motherboards. The safely remove hardware tool was only introduced to Windows XP to finish the caching of files immediatly and not waiting until the next restart. It also reduces the amount of power going to the port but there is always residual power available to the port so that it knows when another drive or card is inserted, well that's what my university professor used to tell us anyway.

Exactly my point. Power is reduces to such an extent as to be negligible and can't damage anything but can detect a new connection. That is why once you have ejected a drive you need to physically remove it and reconnect it to be able to use it again. The reconnection is detected and power restored to the port.

I have also worked with computers for some time (28 years - started in 1984) and I have had to remove and resolder on new USB ports that have been damaged, and no it wasn't just bent/broken pins. So for the sake of a click or two of the mouse that doesn't take that long to do, I'd rather that than have to repair my own laptop. The chances of damage actually occurring are pretty low but with my kind of luck it would be me that it happened to.

I have never said that the power issue was the only reason to eject a drive and do know about the write caching and file corruption issues as well.
 
neil_g said:
if we're going down that road then ive worked in IT too since before USB was mainstream and have never seen a blown USB caused by removing a connection.

Which implies that you have seen blown USBs. In that case how do you know it wasn't caused by disconnecting. A blown USB is completely different from a broken USB, if it is 'blown' then it must be a power issue, otherwise it is just broken. Just as a blown fuse is different from a broken fuse for example.
 
Great a p*ssing contest :)

Sadly I am not the winner as I only started in IT in 1987 :'(

It remains a rather large, and non-proven, conclusion that the USB ports have become damaged because of not using eject option though...
 
I've never needed ( or been able ) to eject a USB mouse or keyboard on a Mac before unplugging it.

The keyboard's also a bus-powered USB hub and I've never heard of a logic board problem caused by unplugging a keyboard.

I see no reason why a card reader should be any different.
 
Musicman said:
I've never needed ( or been able ) to eject a USB mouse or keyboard on a Mac before unplugging it.

The keyboard's also a bus-powered USB hub and I've never heard of a logic board problem caused by unplugging a keyboard.

I see no reason why a card reader should be any different.

That's a good point but I believe (but may well be wrong) that they draw a lot less power when just acting as a keyboard/mouse. More power is used when you connect a drive to the USB port in the keyboard though so you should eject those before pulling the keyboard out.
 
That's a good point but I believe (but may well be wrong) that they draw a lot less power when just acting as a keyboard/mouse. More power is used when you connect a drive to the USB port in the keyboard though so you should eject those before pulling the keyboard out.

I've had several devices that use the USB port to supply power. The only ones ever to have the 'Safely remove' option have been storage devices. Anybody who believes that a USB stick draws more power than a USB mug-warmer is sorely deluded.
 
The safely remove hardware tool was only introduced to Windows XP to finish the caching of files immediatly and not waiting until the next restart. It also reduces the amount of power going to the port

What, exactly, do you mean by 'reduces the amount of power'? Do you mean the voltage?
 
P=VI, so you reduce the power by reducing the voltage, provided the current remains constant (or is reduced as well).
 
P=VI, so you reduce the power by reducing the voltage, provided the current remains constant (or is reduced as well).

That's good because it's simplicity itself to measure the voltage to see if it's reduced at all when a device is 'safely removed'. I'm betting it won't be.
 
Anyhow, weren't we really discussing removing a card from the reader, not the reader from the USB port?

Otherwise it's implying two safe removes

-> Safe remove card in software

-> Safe remove reader in software (can you even do that?)

-> THEN unplug reader

???

and if so, when is the voltage dropped, or is it dropped twice, to an even lower level?

Seems a bit daft
 
Last edited:
Just checking my posts to find that there are 3 pages to this thread... where did this come from from a yes or no question? I kinda got the idea after about 4 reply's. I'm not complaining its very kind for you all to be trying to help me and I love this forum for that.
 
I make a habit of ejecting it. Have you mac display memory cards/devices on the desktop, and when your finished, click it and hit cmd+e.
 
Just checking my posts to find that there are 3 pages to this thread... where did this come from from a yes or no question?

There are very few yes or no questions in life and even less on an Internet forum.... :)
 
Back
Top