Metering In Manual Mode

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Hey Everyone,

I'm still a novice and very new in the world of photography! so I would appreciate any help on this subject.

I'm still really confused on the metering aspect of my slr (canon 1000d). I understand how to adjust the needle to the centre of the meter for a correct exposure in manual mode, but I'm struggling on the whole subject of taking a meter reading from something then recomposing the shot and taking it? I notice the aperature and shutter speed are still locked in but when I recompose the shot the needle on the meter jumps to either over or under exposure. Why do we take these meter readings (from the sky for example) then recompose and take the shot of something else in your frame?

I would appreciate any feedback from anyone willing to help a guy who is still finding his way through the wonderfull world of photography!!

Thanks,

Ryan
 
If you take a meter reading from something approximately mid grey under the same light as the subject, this gives you the exposure for the scene. This might be sunny grass, or one of several other cribs in the landscape.

If you're then recomposing onto a bride in a white dress the meter would now show the shot as under-exposed (it expects someth neutral grey, the dress is bright white - the meter calls for less light to reduce the dress to grey), but you know that the dress is brighter than grey, so you expect the meter reading to show this.

Now you move the camera to view the father of the bride in his black suit (he's mourning all the money he's just spent). The meter indicates that things are underexposed (again, it's looking for grey it thinks things are too dark and calls for more light).. but you want it to be black.

The gist of it is.. your meter is only good for subjects with a reflectance similar to that of mid-grey. Anything different to this and you need to build up the experience to know how to compensate for the meters limited understanding of what you've pointed it at.
 
Thanks for the info Alastair. There is so much to take in! I have been playing around on the manual mode settings and taking loads of shots. I guess it all comes down to practice!
 
to build further on what Alastair said...

The meters found in cameras are designed to broadly assess a scene and try determine an exposure value (through a combination of aperture, shutter speed and ISO) that will render the scene somewhere in the middle between bright (white) and dark (black) i.e. "18% grey". So when you look through the viewfinder at the needle is at 0, this is effectively rendering the scene within the viewfinder to grey i.e. bright areas will be darker and darker areas will be brighter. The skill (and art) of photography is understand this key concept and identify what parts of the scene are important to your shot and set the exposure accordingly. If you know that you want to take a picture of a child with their back to the sun, the camera will darken the scene. Conversely if you want to take a picture of a child against a dark wall, the camera will brighten the scene. But in each case, the image is very unlikely to look like how you saw it. This is where, you will learn to set your exposure meter for the brightness of the areas that are important to you (in both cases, the childs face). A quick way to do this is to go into AV mode move your exposure needle to the positive side if the overall scene is brighter than your subject and to the negative side if your overall scene is darker than your subject.

A very good way to practise is to place a white object on a dark background and then a dark object on a white background. Each time, try and get your object to look as bright or as dark as it does in real life and note where your exposure needle happens to be along the way.

Good luck! :thumbs:
 
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...... A very good way to practise is to place a white object on a dark background and then a dark object on a white background. Each time, try and get your object to look as bright or as dark as it does in real life and note where your exposure needle happens to be along the way.

Good luck! :thumbs:


After all that it was all sum'd up in 2 sentences :lol:

Thanks for the "in a nut shell version" :thumbs:
 
Thanks Hsuffyan, thats a great tip! Will be trying that out this weekend! I tend to get too hung up on trying to make the needle read 0, although I now know that you still get a good exposure with over or under compensation to get the shot you desire!
 
Excellent explanation, was something I was unsure about too! I have posted so I have got it to refer back to, many thanks!
 
I understand how to adjust the needle to the centre of the meter for a correct exposure in manual mode
Short reply :

That is not the answer to a "correct" exposure unless the thing you are metering from happens to average out to a tone (brightness if you like) equivalent to middle grey. If your subject/scene you are metering is predominantly dark you want the meter to be somewhere in the negative portion of the scale. If the subject/scene is bright then you want the meter to be somewhere in the positive portion of the scale. If all you are doing is trying to centre the needle then you are wasting your time. One of the autoexposure modes can do it far quicker than you can.

Long reply :

Camera meters are stupid. They have no idea what your scene contains and whether it should be dark or light. They play safe and assume that overall the brightness of the scene averages out to a middle grey tone. The problem with camera meters is that they measure the light reflected back from a scene, not the light that is illuminating it.

Dark scenes don't reflect back much light. The camera wants to brighten the subject/scene in order to make it appear roughly middle grey. Pale scenes reflect a lot of light. The camera does not understand that the scene should be pale/bright and will try to darken it to achieve a middle grey tone.

If you were to leave the camera in an autoexposure mode (Av, Tv, P, Auto) and leave the compensation set to zero then this is the problem you will see - dark scenes will be overexposed and bright scenes will be underexposed, as the camera strives to match them to middle grey.

If you choose to shoot with manual exposure and keep the needle centred all the time then you are applying no more intelligence than the stupid camera. However, the camera will get that needle centred far quicker than you can and without fumbling about. If it's your sole purpose to centre the needle then don't bother shooting with manual exposure.

So, moving on, the big advantage of shooting with manual exposure is that you can fix your exposure so that it does not jump all over the place. If the light upon the subject/scene is stable then this is a good thing. It doesn't matter whether your subject or scene is dark or light. Once you have the exposure set up correctly for the light illuminating the scene then you can blast away shot after shot without fussing over adjustments to the exposure every time the subject or background alters tonality. The question is - How do you arrive at that correct exposure?

Well this is where you need to apply the intelligence that the camera lacks. You need to consider your metering mode and how it will react to the tones in the scene. Spot metering will take a reading from a very small area of the scene, partial metering will average a larger area and centre weighted average will consider the whole scene, with emphasis on the tones towards the centre of the frame. Evaluative metering will divide the scene up into segments and, with reference to a built in database, will try to guess at the type of scene you have and work out how best to expose for that scenario. This is the closest thing to "intelligence" within the camera. With average scenes that people typically shoot it may do a very good job. With more difficult scenes, with unusual lighting, it may fail miserably.

So, for manual exposure you need to pick your metering mode first and decide how you want the camera to measure the light coming back from the scene. Then you have to decide which are of the scene to meter from and whether that area averages out to middle grey or is actually a bit brighter or darker or a lot brighter or darker. You use the meter needle to guide you, but instead of aiming to centre the meter needle you have to decide how dark or bright your metered area is and where the needle should be positioned in order to reproduce those tones correctly.

When I shoot with manual exposure, which is a lot of the time, I generally (practically always) prefer to use spot metering. This allows me to very precisely meter a specific area of the subject, scene or other reference point and then dial in an exposure to place the meter needle where I think it needs to go. I don't always guess right, but I probably do a better job than the camera would without input from me. Good reference tones included green grass, red brickwork, white paint, dry tarmac and concrete, the palm of your hand - anything that usually has a pretty consistent tone wherever you go. They won't necessarily all require the same position of the meter needle as each other, but if you learn the meter position typically required for each of those things then you can adopt that wherever you go. For example, if I spot meter my outstretched palm, facing back towards the camera, at + 1 1/3 then that is a good starting point from which to move forward. If I meter rich green grass at -2/3 then again that is a good starting point as well. If I find brilliant white, sunlit paintwork, or a swan's feathers in the scene then I might meter that at +3 - the clipping point of my camera - in order to achieve maximum data capture with minimum (zero) loss of important highlight detail.

That's my basic approach to setting exposure initially. In practice I will finesse things depending on the scene, since one size does not quite fit all. If my scene contains nothing important in the highlights then I may well increase the exposure by up to 1 stop (occasionally more) in order to record more detail in the shadow region. This is something I would do when shooting my dark brown dog. There would be nothing important in the highlights to record, but if I tried to maintain sufficient headroom to record those absent highlights I would be wasting dynamic range that could be better used to record details in her dark fur.

Here's an experiment to try on a bright, sunny day, with the sun behind you. Set a manual exposure that corresponds to a "Sunny 16" exposure. An example might be f/8, 200 ISO, 1/800, as confirmed by this incident meter reading taken this afternoon....

20110929_141214_1310_LR.jpg


With the sunlit subject/scene in front of you and the sun directly behind you try taking a few shots. Zoom in, zoom out, pan a little (up to 45 degrees) left and a little right, a little up and a little down and take a shot each time you change the composition. How do the exposures look? They should all be pretty perfect. Now set your metering mode to the smallest area your camera offers - spot metering if you have it, partial metering if you don't. Now repeat the exercise of panning around and zooming, but instead of taking shots, watch how the meter moves. If you have green grass in front of you see what reading you get. Make a note. Repeat for other common things - concrete, red bricks, your own outstretched palm held up in front of you. Make a note of the meter readings for all these things. These will be good starting points for setting a manual exposure when you come across similar things in other locations and in other lighting intensities. Some of them may even lead to a centred meter needle. Some probably will not.

Here's a recent example of a shot using manual exposure for which I didn't meter a thing. It was a bright, sunny day, clear skies, and a sunlit swan. I dialed in an exposure equivalent to "Sunny 16" and Bingo! I don't think I could have done better if I'd tried. The fabulous thing is I didn't have to try. It was easy....

20110929_104405_.JPG



Knowing the "Sunny 16" rule/guideline and how to juggle the exposure triangle is a very powerful weapon in the battle for perfect exposures in sunny conditions. For me it beats any autoexposure mode 100% of the time. For other lighting scenarios knowing how to meter off common reference targets, or simply having a handle on how bright things should look relative to middle grey, is the way to conquering the exposure challenge. There is nothing to suggest that the meter needle should always be centred.

Here's my dog, shot with an exposure 1 stop brighter than "Sunny 16", because even though a "Sunny 16" exposure is "correct" for the incident light (the exposure an incident light meter would calculate) I know from experience that such an exposure will simply not do for this subject.

20110929_145242_.JPG


So the real skill comes in knowing how to fit the dynamic range of the scene within the dynamic range constraints of your camera, and optimising the exposure to make best use of your camera's capabilities. That means that you need to learn how to read a scene, to determine which bits are most important (highlights, lowlights or mid tones) and make sure the exposure you set will capture the most important tones safely. A basic incident meter reading will optimise the exposure for the mid tones That's often perfectly fine, and a great place to start, but if your interest lies in the highlights, such as with a sunlit swan/egret/wedding dress, or the lowlights, such as with a dark coloured dog/cat/bear/horse then you may need to finesse things to accommodate your most important tones.
 
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Hey Everyone,

I'm still a novice and very new in the world of photography! so I would appreciate any help on this subject.

I'm still really confused on the metering aspect of my slr (canon 1000d). I understand how to adjust the needle to the centre of the meter for a correct exposure in manual mode, but I'm struggling on the whole subject of taking a meter reading from something then recomposing the shot and taking it? I notice the aperature and shutter speed are still locked in but when I recompose the shot the needle on the meter jumps to either over or under exposure. Why do we take these meter readings (from the sky for example) then recompose and take the shot of something else in your frame?

I would appreciate any feedback from anyone willing to help a guy who is still finding his way through the wonderfull world of photography!!

Thanks,

Ryan

Real advice, go onto Ebay and buy a Weston Master v, oe Euromaster, use that for metering, you will learn more from that than a camera meter.

Also you can learn Incident and Reflected metering.
 
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JSER said:
Real advice, go onto Ebay and buy a Weston Master v, oe Euromaster, use that for metering, you will learn more from that than a camera meter.

Also you can learn Incident and Reflected metering.

I disagree. How on earth will you take an incident reading for a landscape?
 
I disagree. How on earth will you take an incident reading for a landscape?

With long arms.

Or building your experience to be able to judge how the light on the scene in front of you relates to the light you are in. If it's sunny/16 here, and I can see the landscape in front of me is in the same light, or rather the parts of the landscape I want to expose for are in the same light, then an incident reading where I am and a reflective reading of where I'm looking should be the same.

And that's the sanity check.. if you can take both incident and reflected readings, you can cross-reference one against the other for landscapes. If they are widely different, it's time to take a pause and think.
 
I disagree. How on earth will you take an incident reading for a landscape?

Ditch the DSLR and "learn" photography, by all means Alistair and hsuffyan, decry people who do not know what they are talking about, but I do.

incident.jpg


http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understandexposure.shtml

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/guide-to-using-a-hand-held-light-meter-4748

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00YE6B

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-749.html

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-metering.htm

If you are doing a landscape, remember what all professional photographers do, and what I have been doing for thirty plus years with my original Weston Euromaster., stand facing the subject, huld the meter with the cone on, over your sholder facing back, (of course not if there is a forest behind you).

A reflected light reading is rubbish in snow, on the sand etc, incident is 100% accurate.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/expodisc.htm

Basic photography. Just a shame so few practice it these days.
 
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A reflected light reading is rubbish in snow, on the sand etc, incident is 100% accurate.

I can't agree with that statement. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Despite owning a Sekonic L758D I only use it for off camera flash photography. For other stuff, including snow scenes, I have no problem metering reflected light from snow. It should be white, not grey, so meter it at between +2 and +3 stops depending on the lighting, your artistic intent and whether you are shooting to raw or JPEG and you should be golden.

This exposure was set by spot metering off the brightest part of the snow at +3. Dialing in highlight recovery of +5 pretty much eliminates the clipping. Apart from that, most of the clipping is out of the DOF in any case and contains no valuable detail, even assuming I should care to see detail there, which I really don't.

20110929_173728_.JPG


Would you honestly tell me that the metered result was rubbish? Well maybe you think so, but it works for me. This is classic ETTR, and IMHO there is no easier way to hit ETTR than spot metering highlights at +3 (Canon camera) when shooting to raw. Of course, you could chimp your way to hitting clipping, but by then you might have lost the shot.

What would almost certainly be rubbish is to meter the snow and then set an exposure to leave the meter centred instead of over to the right.

Back to meters and incident light - Different cameras have different sensitivities compared to their stated sensitivity, quite possibly with a discrepancy of 2/3 stop or more, varying with the ISO selected, which unless you have calibrated your meter to your camera will mean that your "100% accurate" meter reading will not translate into a 100% accurate result from the camera. Here's an analysis of the ISO discrepancy for the 60D. At 100 ISO it seems you'd be pretty spot on. At any other ISO value, quite possibly not. So much for that 100% accurate claim. Other cameras may be better or worse....

20110929_174352_.JPG


The 5D2, which is the body I most commonly use with off camera flash, is even worse, and I can confirm that underexposure results when blindly following the flash meter's advice. So much for 100% accuracy.

20110929_180220_.JPG



Then you have transmission losses in lenses which will further affect the net exposure at the sensor. You might also have issues like sticky diaphragm blades, which don't stop down fully, or lenses which lie about their true aperture, such as some of Sigma's long zooms, which lie about being f/5.6 lenses when actually they are closer to f/6.3 at the long end. What if your subject is in lighting that differs from the light you are in? Then you won't be able to apply incident metering for your scene. Incident metering will nail the mid tones. It could lose you something more important in the highlights or lowlights if you're not careful.

Don't imagine that metering incident light is the holy grail. Knowing how to meter reflected light is a valuable skill which should not be ignored.
 
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What if your subject is in lighting that differs from the light you are in?

As it clearly states in the manual I printed, look at what it says by the arrow.
 
JSER said:
Ditch the DSLR and "learn" photography, by all means Alistair and hsuffyan, decry people who do not know what they are talking about, but I do.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understandexposure.shtml

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/guide-to-using-a-hand-held-light-meter-4748

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00YE6B

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-749.html

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-metering.htm

If you are doing a landscape, remember what all professional photographers do, and what I have been doing for thirty plus years with my original Weston Euromaster., stand facing the subject, huld the meter with the cone on, over your sholder facing back, (of course not if there is a forest behind you).

A reflected light reading is rubbish in snow, on the sand etc, incident is 100% accurate.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/expodisc.htm

Basic photography. Just a shame so few practice it these days.

Can do all that with a reflective reading off my palm... Secondly a reflective reading makes you think where exactly you want your area of interest to be in terms of exposure. Just for the record, I have nothing against incident meters, I have one myself and film usually is much more forgiving with its exposure latitude.
 
I agree with meter reading off the hand if it is in the same light as the target, try using a spot meter, my 60D is usually set to this.
 
What if your subject is in lighting that differs from the light you are in?

As it clearly states in the manual I printed, look at what it says by the arrow.

That doesn't work when you're standing on the shadow side of a mountain and wishing to photograph the sunlit mountain on the other side of the valley. It doesn't work when you're running and gunning and need to work quickly in constantly varying light, such as when standing on the shady side of a street and papping celebs on the sunny side, who might duck into the shade of a canopy, or vice versa etc. etc. It doesn't work when you're sitting in the shade of a canopied grandstand and your subjects are hurtling past on the track in the sunshine, or maybe the varying lighting of broken clouds. It doesn't work when you're shooting BIF or aircraft against a bright, backlit sky. You need to hold the highlights, which means metering the highlights so you can position them where they need to be.

I do not necessarily believe that metering incident light is the best solution to a scenario such as this (or worse)....

20110929_183856_.JPG


When you're shooting towards a light source, such as a backlit sky, you need to take that into consideration. An incident light reading won't help you out with backlit situations (AFAIK).
 
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