Microsoft fined £194m

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GfK

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5171126.stm

I don't get this.

Its 'the norm' for software companies to protect their code and assets. You can get sued for taking somebody else's code. Yet in the case of Microsoft, other firms are actively encouraged to 'steal' it and Microsoft get fined for not making sensitive information about their own software more widely available to its competitors.

If the competition can't make software that can compete, then why should Microsoft get fined for that? Just doesn't make sense.
 
I think this goes back to the fact that Microsoft have a Monopoly and that is not allowed.

This was caused by having Anti-Virus, Spyware, Internet access, PC Comms etc etc all built into one piece of software which mean that other smaller players were slowly being forced out of the market.

They were taking to court over it and its competitors won. Microsoft were forced to release components as single pieces of software or allow its competitors access to its source code.

They did neither, hence this report and fines.
 
they made the other parts of the software as seperates, media player and all that, you install windoze, then download the mediaplayer etc

Personally i think it sucks, i agree with GFK, if other companies dont have the ability to make software that does the same thing, then thats not down to microsoft, thats like telling Ferrari to give a chassis to maclaren, or for Ford to give a focus to vauxhall.
 
matty said:
they made the other parts of the software as seperates, media player and all that, you install windoze, then download the mediaplayer etc

Personally i think it sucks, i agree with GFK, if other companies dont have the ability to make software that does the same thing, then thats not down to microsoft, thats like telling Ferrari to give a chassis to maclaren, or for Ford to give a focus to vauxhall.
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Why would Vauxhall want a piece of **** like a focus :LOL:

Seriously, I have to agree. Americans are always saying that the USA is the land of hope and the streets are paved with gold. It is the only place where you can make something of yourself if you try hard enough according to them.

Bill gates did just that and as soon as he got to the top, nearly all of them want to bring him down. If it wasn't for Microsoft and windows people wouldn't have computers. The penguin lovers like to harp on about how open source is the greatest thing ever and that only windows has security flaws and virus vulnerability. Strange how they never manage to read all the reports about Linux problems. Although Linux installs are a lot more advanced these days, it is still beyond the average computer user to set the thing up correctly and they are unable to change any part that requires a driver as the procedure for installing new drivers can be very complicated.

Why can't they just accept that Bill Gates and Microsoft did what no-one else could manage. They brought out an operating system that even a novice can to some extent, use immediately and that has fantastic software support.

Most newcomers to computers are pretty glad their new purchase comes with the OS already installed as they wouldn't know how to go about getting a completely bare computer to work.

Yes - other software companies need to be able to get their software to run on windows but that is where the compilers come in. C++ compiles the source files to native windows code without the need to know anything about the OS just as it does for Linux or any other OS with a C++ compiler.

Rant Over :D
 
nightfire said:
Why would Vauxhall want a piece of **** like a focus :LOL:
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:cautious:

Matty - you hold him, I'll grab his burberry hat. :razz:
 
GfK said:
:cautious:

Matty - you hold him, I'll grab his burberry hat. :razz:
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i could ban him!:D
 
I was given a brand new Ford Focus on two seperate ocassions by a car hire company while I was waiting for my company car. They were the worst two cars I have ever driven.

Why anyone would want to waste hard earned cash one of those pieces of junk is beyond comprehension.
 
nightfire said:
I was given a brand new Ford Focus on two seperate ocassions by a car hire company while I was waiting for my company car. They were the worst two cars I have ever driven.

Why anyone would want to waste hard earned cash one of those pieces of junk is beyond comprehension.
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:wave:

driven many? Mk1 Focus was the best selling vehicle for its entire production life, the Journos favourite and all round good egg. The latest version is supposed to be just as good if not better!
 
Yeah but you have to admit matty, it aint much of a looker :p
 
I'm changing my car to a Focus, wouldn't touch a Vauxhall with a stick after too many ones as hire cars.

Focus is a good car, Vauxhall is ok, but Ford is better. IMO of course.
:)
 
focus is superb, the woman in the RX7 behind me last night was so gobsmacked with the good looks, she failed to stop when i did..

(insert rolleyes)

then cleared off

(insert another rolleyes)

no damage though, cos its build to last..grrrr
 
RX7 or RX8? If it's an RX7 then 'mmmmMMMmmmmm', if it's an RX8 then 'Meh!'.

:)

(still no match for a Honda S2000)
 
Watch Top Gear tonight (BBC2) - new Mondeo ST220! Very surprising review from Messr. Clarkson.
 
Saw it on Sunday, not that surprising, it's moved on from potato days.

The caravan incident is more surprising/shocking.
 
Doesn't matter one bit to me what anyone else says about the Ford Crocus. I've driven two, bothe with less than 500 miles on the clock when I got them and they should never have been put on the road. Two pieces of junk out of two is enough to put me off straight away. The only other car I have driven that was anywhere near as bad was a Vaxhaul Nova.

Every car I have ever bought has been Ford. My first was a 66 Ford Anglia with a 997cc OHV engine, followed by Consul V6 3 litre GL, Various Cortina's and the last one was a 1.6 Mk3 Capri.

I'm not knocking Ford as a manufacturer, I quiye like the Mondeo 2.0 Ghia, It's a comfortable car to ride in and the performance is far from shabby. I just Don't like the Focus based on the two new ones that I was forced to drive for a short a few months.

As for the way a car looks, I'm more interested in comfort and reliability than what it looks like. When I was driving the Anglia I passed many newer and very expensive cars on the hard shoulder of various motorways, especially in hot weather. My old but reliable Anglia may not have been as fast as their status symbols but it got me to my destination a whole lot faster.

I currently drive a Hyundai Matrix 1500 3 cylinder diesel. It may not be the nicest car in the world and it is far from being the fastest but it was chosen because it was the car that best suited the needs of both my family and my job. The only time it has let me down is when I let it run out of fuel and considering it is a diesel, didn't need the fuel system bleeding when it was refueled.

One of the better cars I have driven was the Citroen Xara 2.0 Estate. Very reliable, good performance, excellent load carrying ability and a very good specification.

As for the worst cars I've tried - well obviously the two Focus's and the Nova with a Vauxhall Corsa, Fiat Cinquecento and Punto are definitely cars that I would never even consider.
 
Without getting in a manufacturing arguement, how come your the only person in the world who rates the Focus below a hyundai :eek:

Focus has outsold and out performed the astra every year of it's production. In it's last guise the focus was voted the most reliable car in europe by TUV
It's also the benchmark for 'B' class cars in terms of handling.

I need another beer, my heads spinning
 
Hyundai are bags of PANTS, I know a couple of people who have them, they spend a lot of time in the dealers getting it fixed.

What year/shape/model focus did you try?
 
So what was wrong with the Foci that you tried? Did they break down or was it just a case of not the car for you?

I found them to be quite comfortable but then I am used to a 2 seater sports car which has about 2mm of suss travel! lol :D
 
how come your the only person in the world who rates the Focus below a hyundai
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Probably because I am the only person in the world who has had two brand new ones that were so unsafe that it was nigh on impossible to stop the car within a safe distance at anything more than about 15MPH.

As for Hyundai's being pants - WRONG!!!!
The only time mine has been back to the dealers was for it's sevice.

If Hyundai's are so bad how come they are the only cars that come with a 5 year warranty as standard. If they were that bad they would have ceased trading in the first couple of years due to financial losses.

As someone previously mentioned Clarkson earlier - On a recent Top Gear, out of 3 cars tested, two of which you would regard as true sports cars and a hyundai coupe, they said the the Hyundai was the only one that truely felt like it was a sports car.

Each to their own - if you get off on a Ford Focus then you are quite welcome to them - I will stick with whatever car suits my needs at the time I choose it. My next car which I will be getting in about 18 months may be a Ford but it won't be a Focus. It may be a Vauxhall but not a Vextra or Corsa. It may be a Fiat, Citroen, VW or even a Skoda (now a rebadged VW).

My choice of car is made on MY own experience, the ability to fulfill the requirements I have at the time, the specification, the cost and my perception of it's reliabiity and not the opinions of people who are so certain they know more than i do about what is best for me. I will not choose to buy a car simply because you tell me it is the best when I have driven two examples of that car, both new, over a period of nearly 10 consectutive months, that were unsafe, uncomfortable to drive for anything more than about twenty minutes and are ugly to look at.

You love the focus - you have it. Do not try to force it on me.
 
nightfire said:
Probably because I am the only person in the world who has had two brand new ones that were so unsafe that it was nigh on impossible to stop the car within a safe distance at anything more than about 15MPH.



If Hyundai's are so bad how come they are the only cars that come with a 5 year warranty as standard. If they were that bad they would have ceased trading in the first couple of years due to financial losses.
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I'd be keen to check the warranty repair history of these 2 focii as i've never had a complaint of unsafe breaking on focus when new. Can you PM me the vehicles Reg numbers?
We did have an issue with ST170 at launch on brake vacuum assistance from a cold start, but that was very quickly sorted with a revised engine management calibration.

If there was a production issue affecting the vehicles when new, it should have been picked up by the dealer network at PDI and any repairs in service should have then been subject to a concern report.
From there on the concern would have been investigated production altered/rectified or a service action issued to dealers.


Re the Hyundai comments, they are a huge company in the asia pacific market, but in Europe their market share is tiny, hence the loss leader warranty policy.
Their aim with the long warranty is to increase long term market share. However the residual values of the vehicle after 5 years will be much lower than a european vehicle of similar class so they are breeding a throw away culture imho.
Owners will take advantage of the long warranty and then bin the cars, Hyundai will be hoping that because the car has cost the owner buttons to keep on the road they'll buy another.

In reality though, it's not a way to go and other marques have tried it and been taken for lots of cash.

I'd also like to see the actual terms of warranty, how much of it gets kicked out as wear and tear? suddenly the 60 month warranty doesn't look so good when all your suspension and friction parts loose the cover after 12months :(
 
Can't PM the reg numbers of these cars as they were hire cars I was using while wating for authority to choose the car I was getting through work. Both these cars were reported to the Hire company as having suspect braking systems. I returned the first one because of the poor braking after nearly having a collision braking from about 45MPH on the motorway in slowish traffic. I managed to pull into chevrons at the side and the car didn't stop untill the front of the focus was in front of the vehicle I would have hit if I hadn't been able to pull out. There was about 4 car lengths between us when I hit the brakes. The wheels did not lock, no skidding so I guess the ABS worked but it was more like the ABS released the braking force as the wheel slowed rather than when the wheel stopped. They refused to exchange the second when I again complained. They received a registered letter from me stating there was a problem and that they would be responsible for any situation that might arise from them ignoring my complaint.

As for Pre Delivery Inspections - an inspection is only as good as the person doing it at that moment in time. I used to work as an apprentice in a ford garage and assisted a mechanic on one particular PDI inspection on a Cortina estate. I spotted damage to the fuel tank that the qualified mechanic had missed. It was his last job of the day (friday) and had his mind more on what the evening had in store than the inspection. I was keen and green at the time and was looking at everything. If the PDI had been done solely by this mechanic, the car would have gone out as being roadworthy. As soon as more than 2 or 3 gallons of petrol had gone into the tank there would have been petrol spewing out all over the rubber bushes in the rear suspension and splashing on the rear tyres causing the rubber to perish. I'm sure that if the car had gone out with the faulty fuel tank the smell from the leaking petrol would have alerted the driver but it didn't get that far fortunately.

I would imagine most PDI inspections catch anything that is faulty but to say all faults get picked up is incorrect.
 
the industry has moved on significantly since the days of the cortina :)

While there are faults that get missed because of human error, brake faults seldom occur.
The brake systems are pressure bled during build and the vehicle gets an initial check as it leaves the line, from there on the PDI includes a road test. If a poor brake was there from new, it'd be found and then reported back through usual warranty procedures.

While i'm not saying you've not had a bad experience in a focus, i am saying focus as a car is not known for underperfoming brake systems.

you can't provide vehicle details, which is a shame as i could have checked on repair history. You also haven't stated how the brake reacted. Had it have been an ABS event you'd have felt it through the pedal.

Are you saying the 2nd car had the same symptoms?
if so, it's very unlikely that they were produced on the same shift, so a production issue would have affected hundreds of vehicles and sparked a detr monitored safety recall campaign. Again vehicle details would have been nice.


The highway code states that typical safe stopping distance for a car moving at 40MPH is 36meters (approx 9 car lengths) including the reaction time, this increases to 53meters at 50MPH (approx 13 car lengths)

These are stated as typical distances for a car in good order in dry conditions, your statement of 4 car lengths at approx 45MPH is a great deal closer than stated safe distances, could it not be driver error ?

As you've spent time in the industry, you'll be aware that poor hydraulic brake performance is almost always accompanied by other symptoms i.e soft pedal feel, excessive travel or un even brake operation (pulling) again non of which have been mentioned.

please be assured that i'm not picking holes or being pedantic about this, I have an interest thats all.


on a lighter note.......Cortina didn't need petrol on the rubber bushes to make them fall apart :eek: a light breeze used to have the rear axle void bushes running for cover :LOL:
 
That's very interesting chaps, I shall play with the brakes on any test drives I have over the next few days. :)

Oh, and if the ABS had come in that probably explains why you lost a large amount of brake force. ABS actually increases the stopping distance of most cars, it's not there to help you stop it's there to allow you to do exactly what you did i.e. stear out of a collision.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your car decision. :)
 
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