More bird help please!

T

Tori

Suspended / Banned
Messages
2,749
Name
Tori
Edit My Images
Yes
Day two, upped the ISO and had the camera steady on a wall. Surely releasing the shutter isn't causing these problems? Because my pictures are still fluffy/grainy. I don't know what I'm doing wrong! Is it the light? Is it me not being steady enough? I'm close to giving up on birds at this rate, as I'm not even getting one decent picture out of hundreds taken which is becoming really disheartening. Is my lens adequate enough for these sorts of pictures?

I've not done anything with these pictures at all. It seemed pointless to crop them as any amount of zoom on them and the clarity gets even worse.

IMG_1744.jpg


IMG_1738.jpg


Please help! Thanks x
 
Hi Tori, what were your camera settings? It doesn't look like you had the best day light-wise either.
 
Don't give up yet. To get birds in flight without a lot of noise you need lots of light, as has been mentioned it you can get closer to the feeders, or the feeders closer to you this also helps once the birds get used to you. My best shots are when the sun is almost opposite where the feeders are and it reflects off the window and lights them up, this does mean I only get a few minutes a day on sunny days at this time of year to get some good chances and the feeders are between 2 - 4 yards away - even 4 yards is a bit far to get an uncroppped picture :) Keep trying, it takes lots of practice to get good bird shots (or a lot of luck)
 
Its difficult to see where your focus point was, the eye is always the point to focus on, but these are an improvement from the robin shot yesterday, you've got your speed up to 1/1250 which has all but stopped the bird in flight which is good. The noise level for 1600 ISO is also good IMO.
As already said, I agree you need to get closer now, you have taken these at 300mm, the maximum for your lens. The other alternative is a longer lens, but where do you stop, it can be an expensive game. If you can get closer as suggested above, then you will retain more detail and be able to crop slightly if necessary.
Dont give up, your getting there, keep trying (y)
 
Hi Tori,

All of the above is very good advise. Your Exif information, Camera: Canon EOS 500D
Lens: 300 mm
Exposure: Auto exposure, Aperture-priority AE, 1/1,328 sec, f/5.6, ISO 1600, shows that you were having to push the ISO to get a decent shutter speed. At that ISO you would get some unwanted noise in your images. So better light is what will help you, also as already mentioned get much closer, use a hide. If you know somewhere that you can park close to birds, use your car as a hide. A bean bag resting on top of the door works brilliantly! Keep at it and good luck, I look forward to seeing you progress. (y)
 
Hi Tori, so far you have been given lots of useful advice which so far seems to be paying off. The most important one is indeed getting close. I am not in the position to purchase anything for a long time so have to make do with my 70-200 and 1.4TC. What is the situation with your garden there? Looks like a field behind which is something most people would die for as far as distance for the background is concerned, looking at these shots it seems that the direction of light is also in your favour. That is two things out the way already :LOL:.

If you want better shots then you need to consider some form of hide in the garden, this will depend on what you can afford, either a transportable popup hide which will serve you twofold if you wish to go off elswhere with it, or failing that you might want to consider maybe a couple of small wooden steaks in the ground about 5-6ft apart. You can then purchase a piece of cammo net from any surplus store and tie it across. If you are going to do this then you will need to consider also setting up some natural looking perches for the birds to land on. Hope this is of some help for you?
 
Plenty of good advice here, but there's really nothing wrong with these at al Tori given the range you're working at.

The main thing to understand is that you can't reduce a file from several thousand pixels wide down to 800 pixels wide without the image losing sharpness and definition, so sharpening after reducing the image in size is something that you must ALWAYS do.

A quick sharpen and slight levels adjust shows there's really not a lot wrong here at all....

5400521717_f8a17f71bd_o.jpg


5401121372_84fc18ee7d_o.jpg


So don't get disheartened you're definitely on the right track. As for cropping, these would be challenging crops even for a Canon 7D, but I'd bet you could crop these quite a bit to show the birds larger and still have acceptable results provided you don't go mad with the cropping. :)
 
CT said:
Plenty of good advice here, but there's really nothing wrong with these at al Tori given the range you're working at.

The main thing to understand is that you can't reduce a file from several thousand pixels wide down to 800 pixels wide without the image losing sharpness and definition, so sharpening after reducing the image in size is something that you must ALWAYS do.

A quick sharpen and slight levels adjust shows there's really not a lot wrong here at all....

5400521717_f8a17f71bd_o.jpg


5401121372_84fc18ee7d_o.jpg


So don't get disheartened you're definitely on the right track. As for cropping, these would be challenging crops even for a Canon 7D, but I'd bet you could crop these quite a bit to show the birds larger and still have acceptable results provided you don't go mad with the cropping. :)
Click to expand...

Lot of good stuff said here
doc
 
These were only about 25 feet away. I need to be closer than that?

I have some nice backdrop in my garden, but all my windows open on a top hinge so it's awkward to get pictures out of them. These were taken at my local wildlife reserve. There are hides there, but the birds don't come close enough!(If I need to be closer than 20 feet now it seems)
I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here today. Even when the sun came out this afternoon, I took some more pictures, with similar results.
I knew it wasn't going to be easy, but I expected to get some relatively 'in focus' shots with a fairly decent camera. Instead, I feel like I have a camera that will only take decent shots if it's a glorious sunny day!

Thank god racing starts soon, at least I know where I am with that.

Disheartened and expected a bit more from my new lens really, it's put me off but I guess I'll try again at some point.
 
Closer, right. I'll work on that. Thanks x
 
Even with very long lenses, you need to get a lot closer to small birds than you might think Tori. I shoot small birds in my garden sometimes at about 20 feet with a 500mm lens and invariably need to crop still.
 
Get closer and set up a cheap hide.
2 wheelie bins with a stool set between them then drape some camouflage over the stool and bins and leave it alone for the bids to get used to. Then a day or 2 later get inside with camera, tripod and remote shutter release cable.
Cheap camoufalge can be got at the aarmy surplus stores or online. Not a store bought hide but will do the job and a lot cheaper.

John.
 
Good idea! I think this is one to plan for warmer days! Thanks :)
 
Hi Tori,just pretend you are gonna snuggle up to your other half,then move away a bit thats how close you need to be to birds sometimes,or spend at least a grand on a longer lens,

but don,t give up,

regards,
john
 
LOL Smaller than the gap between me and my ex then! And maybe the same distance between me and my ThomasCat.


He never did like cats on the bed...pah!
 
All good advice and agree with others close and steady set up is most important. I use 500mm and have my hide about 15ft away from the perches were the birds land to get detailed shots.

Perseverance and patience is the name of the game.
 
john starkey said:
Hi Tori,just pretend you are gonna snuggle up to your other half,then move away a bit ....n
Click to expand...

Stop pretending you can still get anywhere near your other half with the wonga you've spent on kit! :LOL:
 
This is 630mm, no crop and was 11 feet away, so as others have said, if you want something like this distance (I'm not showing off, I'm certainly no pro!!), you'll need to get a lot closer. Good luck!

 
john starkey said:
Hi Tori,just pretend you are gonna snuggle up to your other half,then move away a bit thats how close you need to be to birds sometimes,or spend at least a grand on a longer lens,

but don,t give up,

regards,
john
Click to expand...
And you wonder why I get worried in a small hide with John when he's trying to work out what focal length he needs :crowded: :puke: :LOL: And this is a different story to the one Johns lovely wife told me :naughty:

Seriously though Tori, you have made improvements since your robin shot, and CT's edit shows even more so how much better these shots are.
Your technique including getting closer is the next step, but having got this far already, dont give up, your doing ok (y)
 
I'm going to keep trying. Your comments and support and one very kind member on here who keeps helping via mail, is keeping me going!

Lol@CT...that's why I'm divorced!! ;-)

Chris, when I get a bird shot like that I will be on here shouting to everyone about it!! It's a great shot!

I'm now looking at hides lol. Oh and external flashes for something else I want to try, but that's top secret as yet ;-)

I can see me ending up penniless...<sob>
 
Tori said:
Chris, when I get a bird shot like that I will be on here shouting to everyone about it!! It's a great shot!
Click to expand...

Thanks :D You'll be happy to know, that was actually my first proper attempt at shooting birds, so it's not like you need years of practise to perfect the technique! A £1000 lens, a £300 teleconvertor and a trip to a hide is all you need to get a shot like that (well, maybe a general knowledge of how your camera works and composition too, but it seems like you're gaining that anyway!)
 
If looking for somthing a bit cheaper to use as a hide you could try one of these, Gelert Quickpitch Pop-Up Tent they are about £30 from here.

www.outdoormegastore.co.uk
 
I only have a little 500d with a 70-300 lens so maybe I'll be trying for a bit longer! Maybe a converter or whatever they're called... But then you must lose quality surely?
I see those pop up tents at rallies alot so it's worth a look! My neighbours will think I'm bonkers, in a tent with a camera! Either that or a peeping Tom!!
 
I've got a 2 man pop up hide and it's great - really comfortable seats but it weighs 17lbs and it always takes me forever to get it back in the bag.

A bit of cammo leafscreen sheet strung between a couple of bushes or a gap in a hedgerow makes a pretty good hide and it's light as a feather and folds up small. More pleasant than being cooped up in a tiny hide for long periods too.
 
Don't birds see over the top? Lol Oh you mean thrown over the top? I don't have anything that I could do that with I don't think. Maybe I'll post a pic of my garden tomorrow and ask for suggestions!

I need to find an army surplus store I think!
 
Last edited:
Tori said:
Don't birds see over the top? Lol Oh you mean thrown over the top? I don't have anything that I could do that with I don't think. Maybe I'll post a pic of my garden tomorrow and ask for suggestions!

I need to find an army surplus store I think!
Click to expand...


The trick is just to keep still and low Tori. In fact that's more than half the battle - hide or not. If you can get set up close to your birds, preferably tripod mounted and seated, which is less threatening to the birds, as long as you wear suitable clothing and keep still, avoiding sudden movements, you'll be surprised how soon the birds get used to you.

Sudden movements of your hands spooks them, so keep your movements slow and deliberate - gloves helps a lot as our flesh is almost luminous to them.
 
To continue with CT's advice, a hide I use is this one:
http://www.stealthwildlife.co.uk/lightweight-bag-hide-2458-0.html
They make a few different ones as well. Unlike how its shown in the picture, I have the camera on a tripod and sit on a camping type 3 legged stool, the hide covers all of me and the tripod, and you are sitting low down too. By keeping relatively still in the way CT describes, this gives just that bit more concealement, and allows you full vision in all directions and is not too hot in the summer. Can be folded up and almost put into a pocket.
Just another thought for you :).
 
^^^, yeah but lets face it, it is slightly bigger than a Blue/Great tit or a Chaffinch/Greenfinch.
 
AFC said:
^^^, yeah but lets face it, it is slightly bigger than a Blue/Great tit or a Chaffinch/Greenfinch.
Click to expand...

And no doubt lashed to a post as well :LOL:
 
u8myufo said:
And no doubt lashed to a post as well :LOL:
Click to expand...

No it wasn't actually as it was free flying in a demo and no jessees either.

Yep it is bigger than a blue tit but all I was trying to say was the 70-300 lens is a good lens and not to give up.

bit smaller... very large crop, absolutely no PP work whatsoever, apart from the crop, using the 70-300, shot through a closed dirty window. Needs PP sharpening etc etc.... but once again trying to say do not give up on the 70-300, keep persevering.


Robin in snow Jan 09 by djguk47, on Flickr

David
 
UKOz said:
No it wasn't actually as it was free flying in a demo and no jessees either.

Yep it is bigger than a blue tit but all I was trying to say was the 70-300 lens is a good lens and not to give up.

bit smaller... very large crop, absolutely no PP work whatsoever, apart from the crop, using the 70-300, shot through a closed dirty window. Needs PP sharpening etc etc.... but once again trying to say do not give up on the 70-300, keep persevering.

David
Click to expand...

Twas only in jest David ;) Yes the lens is far from being rubbish and Ced`s edits have proved what can be achieved. I am reading this thread and get the feeling Tori is comparing her pictures against a lot of others that are posted here. And yes she should not give up, bearing in mind this is her second attempt she is doing good. I think she mentioned she likes doing motorsport stuff, now whilst I used to go to a lot of GP meetings years ago I would not expect my efforts on motorsport to be that good to start with if I attempted it today. Tori also mentions about getting disheartened, imo you should not be feeling like that so soon whilst trying to learn the subject. Every mistake we make with the help of others on here should be seen as a positive move in the right direction. I am pretty sure though that she will come back with some shots shortly, which will show a huge improvement.
 
Rich,
As we say back home... no worries mate.... I had just got off a cr*p conference call....:bang:
I really enjoyed using my 70-300 and was very happy until I managed to acquire a 100-400 and wow.... but...the 70-300 stays in my bag as when I am out with my friends the first thing they ask is...have I got the 70-300 with me as they wouldn't mind having a go with it.

You are so so correct in your comment about helping each other as over the past 18 months, which is when I started taking photography a bit more seriously, I have learnt so much from other people. Looking at the images they post and seeing how they achieved the image.

Tori will get there and I agree she will start posting images that new members will aspire to achieving.

David
 
The help is what keeps me going. I had a bad day at the weekend, but I'm not quitter and will be out again next weekend trying again!

400mm lens...now there's a thought..No...stop it, I can't afford any more gear!! I ahve a mortgage to pay!!

I have decided to make a bird hide. It will be the queen of all bird hides. I have drawn plans already. I'm quite good at building things, but normally things with engines, so I may post some pictures of it 'in the making' as long as you all promise not to laugh!

;-)
 
UKOz said:
Rich,
As we say back home... no worries mate.... I had just got off a cr*p conference call....:bang:
I really enjoyed using my 70-300 and was very happy until I managed to acquire a 100-400 and wow.... but...the 70-300 stays in my bag as when I am out with my friends the first thing they ask is...have I got the 70-300 with me as they wouldn't mind having a go with it.

You are so so correct in your comment about helping each other as over the past 18 months, which is when I started taking photography a bit more seriously, I have learnt so much from other people. Looking at the images they post and seeing how they achieved the image.

Tori will get there and I agree she will start posting images that new members will aspire to achieving.

David
Click to expand...
No probs David ;)
Tori said:
The help is what keeps me going. I had a bad day at the weekend, but I'm not quitter and will be out again next weekend trying again!

400mm lens...now there's a thought..No...stop it, I can't afford any more gear!! I ahve a mortgage to pay!!

I have decided to make a bird hide. It will be the queen of all bird hides. I have drawn plans already. I'm quite good at building things, but normally things with engines, so I may post some pictures of it 'in the making' as long as you all promise not to laugh!

;-)
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me Tori a mobile hide on wheels complete with a 500cc engine :LOL: I too would love a bigger lens but that is out of the question, however when I first joined up I listened to what another member was saying. And that was get as close as possible, ok a lot of the shots I take in the garden are at close range and most of the birds are used to me. Here is one I took from aprox 12ft away. The hide consisted of nothing more than a few pieces of Hazel branch bent over to form a bivvy and the net draped over it. I am pretty sure I could have got in even closer if the ground had permitted it.

KF-1.jpg
 
Looks like a small amount of back focus to me? Have you tried setting up a focus test to make sure it is spot on for that distance?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top