More Birds

dod

dod

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Ebenezer McScrooge III
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Not really been taking many shots lately but managed a few again today. Before anyone else says it, I agree, the bokeh on the third is just plain weird. :suspect1: Not PS'd though apart from a slight crop, taken with the 100-400. Might also get rid of the OOF branch on the first and that thing at the bottom if I get the chance.

birdy1.jpg


birdy2.jpg


birdy3.jpg


birdy4.jpg


birdy5.jpg
 
These I like Dod - yeah they can be criticized but hey, they are wild creatures and these are superb stills of them !

100 - 400 you say ... three legs or VR ?
 
absolutely cracking shots dod, to say these are wild birds, in the wild, brilliant stuff, would like to see the upper branch on 1 (blackcap/tit) cloned out.
stevannie
 
stevannie said:
absolutely cracking shots dod, to say these are wild birds, in the wild, brilliant stuff, would like to see the upper branch on 1 (blackcap/tit) cloned out.
stevannie
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'tis a Blue Tit = Parus Minor !
 
thanks Ven, nice to know there's someone who knows what their on about.
Lovely shots, once again.
stevannie
 
thanks Ven, nice to know there's someone who knows what their on about.
Click to expand...

Birds I know ... photography is why I am here ! Appreciate the sentiment Stev !

And yes they are great pics !
 
All good shots but I think the crop is wrong on the first shot. I would have gone more for a landscape shot leaving some space for the bird to look into, that way it would also remove some of the other branch clutter.

birdy1.jpg


I also altered the contrast slightly and applied a tad more sharpening to bring out more feather detail.

Hope that helps?
 
wow stunning stuff, i love these, there does seem to be a funny thing happening with the background in a couple of the shots, shots 2 and 3 have a strange look to the background. Is that normal ?
 
barrymoir said:
wow stunning stuff, i love these, there does seem to be a funny thing happening with the background in a couple of the shots, shots 2 and 3 have a strange look to the background. Is that normal ?
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Its caused by vibration when the shutter is activated.
The technical term for it is,'Camera Shake'.

When shooting with long lenses you need to make sure you keep the whole lot steady. This can be achieved by resting the camera on a solid surface or sturdy tripod. Using your spare hand to push down on the lens, you also need to make sure you push your face into the back of the camera applying a bit of preasure.
You also need to get a high enough shutter speed to eliminate the effect of camera shake.
 
ahh thanks for that Matt, id have thought the shake would have thrown the whole picture out slightly not just the background though.
 
Yes I am getting a weird look to some of the backgrounds that I wouldn't have thought was camera shake.
 
The 100-400L can sometimes produce donut oof highlights, which are typical of a mirror (cat) lens, and some of those oof highlights in Dod's robin shot seem to be just verging on becoming donuts.The effect seems to be a random, occasional thing, but is probably caused by a combination of chosen focal length, the nature of the background, and even the aperture. It's an effect not common to the 100-400L either, other zooms can produce the effect. It's certainly not camera shake as the bird and the twigs in the foreground are sharp.

You ideally shouldn't be touching the camera at all when you take shots on a tripod - that's the whole purpose of using a tripod, so release the shutter with a remote release, rather than touch the camera and induce camera shake.

The technique Matt describes for pressing down on the lens etc. are all accepted techniques when tracking birds fliitting about and not keeping particularly still, when you really need the 'hands on' approach to have any chance of being able to manouevre the camera and get a sharp shot when the opportunity presents itself, but wherever possible use a cable release. :)
 
That 4th picture is really great, and I much prefer Steve's crop of the first one.
 
Thanks for the comments :) Steve, you're right as usual, that is a better crop. I was a bit worried about going to far with the sharpening but I think you've proved it could stand it.

Venomator, what do you mean VR? These were either on the monopod or handheld after the head broke on the monopod :(
 
lovely bird shots...I like the crop that Steve did but find the sharpening a bit too much. The last shot is the best in my opinion..... :)
 
excellent shots Dod, all very good but #4 and #5 stand out best for me, Steves crop works very well too..
 
CT said:
You ideally shouldn't be touching the camera at all when you take shots on a tripod - that's the whole purpose of using a tripod, so release the shutter with a remote release, rather than touch the camera and induce camera shake.
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When Using large lenses on a tripod, the vibration from the mirror can cause the artifacts that appear in some of dod's images here.
If you look at image #2, you can see the twigs in the background have duplicated because of the mirror slap.
The only way to avoid it is to use a higher shutter speed, and/or apply downward preasure to the lens. Once you have mastered the technique the effect of vibration can be eliminated.
 
But why isn't the same effect found on the actual birdy?
 
doddie, the best shot of the bunch is the final shot of the robin, even though its a tad over sharpened.

The angle of the perch, carries through the bird giving a very pleasing pose.

When setting up feeders for photography, you need to set up a perch at a similar angle to the post in this shot, leaving it a birds hop away from the feeder, this way you can eliminate the feeder from your shots.

Try to position it so when your going to start snapping, the sun is directly behind you, this will stop unwanted shadows in the captured images, and will also bring out the feather detail.
 
SammyC said:
But why isn't the same effect found on the actual birdy?
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It probably is, but as its the point of focus and probably had sharpening applied, so it has been disguised.
If you were to look at a full size image without sharpening, it would be a lot easier to spot.

You also need to remember that the effect will be exagerated the further away from the lens you go.
 
Ah. have to take your word for that as I haven't got anything that long.

:)
 
Matt said:
It probably is, but as its the point of focus and probably had sharpening applied, so it has been disguised.
If you were to look at a full size image without sharpening, it would be a lot easier to spot.

You also need to remember that the effect will be exagerated the further away from the lens you go.
Click to expand...

Here's a 100% crop Matt, no processing whatsoever, is this what you'd expect? Genuine query, I've never heard of the technique you're talking about so if it will help get rid of the effect I'll give it a go :) Edit added second crop

100croprobin.jpg


100croprobin2.jpg
 
There not as sharp as I'd expect them to be, and I believe this is down to movement. If you look closely at both robin images you'll notice one image is effected horizontally while the other is vertically.

Here's a 100% crop of an image of mine using the 10D and Sigma 800 (no Image stabliser).
This is the first shot I took using my New tripod and 393 Head and the technique explained higher up the thread.

MEP-100crop.jpg
100croprobin.jpg


As you can see, I hadn't got the technique spot on, as there is a slight bit of movement visable in the grass to the right of the birds head.

Looking at both crops, the first one is sharper, which leads me to believe it is down to technique.
 
I see what you're saying. How come though there's not the same artefacts on the bird itself? :confused: What I'm gettting at is on the one looking left there appear to be three blades of grass for every one. Surely you'd expect to see something similar on the beak?
 
It is there, thats why the shot is out of focus.
It should look much sharper than the one I posted as, I believe you use the 20D.
The movement is exagerated the further away form the lens you go.

I'm no scientist and can't explain the ins and outs as I would like to, so I'll leave you something to read, an article by E.J. Peiker called, 'Defeating the "Camera Shake" Enemy'.
 
dod said:
Venomator, what do you mean VR? These were either on the monopod or handheld after the head broke on the monopod :(
Click to expand...

Sorry Dod - forgot myself ... VR, as SammyC suggests is certainly Nikonese Vibration Reduction. Impressed you captured these handheld and/or monopoding ! My Blackies (see thread) were VR 400 and handheld !

Just overlooked the fact a few people still have Canon gear !:laugh1: :getmecoat :laugh1: Sorry ...
 
Right, this was really bugging me so did a test. This time using tripod, Mirror lock up and cable release. Activated lock up and waited 10 seconds each time before taking a shot. Focus was on the stone which was beside the robin yesterday, camera was placed in as near identical position as I could get it.

That strange bokeh effect is still there so the lens does produce it. Granted my hand held efforts weren't as sharp as they could have been.

bokehtest2.jpg


bigger version here
 
Did you try the technique that Matt outlined to see if you could stop it? Just for completeness sake?
 
Thats an excellent article Matt, i may have to try using the old tripod a bit more with the 100-400, even with the IS, as pointed out by Rob (Arkady) and CT in my Marwell pics, it is a bit soft in not so good light :)
 
IanC_UK said:
Thats an excellent article Matt, i may have to try using the old tripod a bit more with the 100-400, even with the IS, as pointed out by Rob (Arkady) and CT in my Marwell pics, it is a bit soft in not so good light :)
Click to expand...

Don't use the VR feature (or Canon equivalent) when the lens is mounted on a tripod! It'll cause really bad blurring - it's designed to work to combat small movement - if there isn't any then it goes all Pete Tong on you.

We did loads and loads of testing on this at both the School (Cosford) and at the SF training centre.

Turn VR OFF when tripod-mounted. Please.
 
Good point by Rob there - unless the IS/VR system can detect movement it can't work anyway, so is pointless on a tripod.
 
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