Beginner Most Cost Effective Upgrade?

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cans11

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I am looking to upgrade from my Canon EOS rebel in the next few months (probably around the holidays). I’m undecided on if I should stick with Canon. I’ve also been considering Sony, Nikon, and Pentax. However, I haven’t decided and would like some suggestions. My primary lens that I use is the Canon 50mm 1.8 that I use for portraits. My kit lens gets basic usage for my personal leisure.

I want to go full frame and I’m looking for a good quality but affordable option for a body. I looked into the Canon 6D, however I am aware it has been 11 years since its release. The price is so cheap used though, it’s tempting. My rebel is newer than that and it’s too limiting for me now.

Any suggestions for something a bit “newer” (less than 10 years) but similarly priced? Or is the 6D still a great option despite its age? What limitations could I experience with that body?

If I switch brands, I would need to buy an adapter to continue using my Canon lens, or just buy new lens gear altogether. All extra costs I wouldn't have if I stuck with Canon. I’m not as familiar with those brands, so I’m not sure what would be the most cost-effective upgrade at this time. I'm open to any and all suggestions (including other brands to explore). Do I stick with Canon, switch to another brand and keep my lenses, or sell all of my Canon gear entirely, and move on? Thank you!
 
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cans11 said:
I am looking to upgrade from my Canon EOS rebel in the next few months (probably around the holidays). I’m undecided on if I should stick with Canon. I’ve also been considering Sony, Nikon, and Pentax. However, I haven’t decided and would like some suggestions. My primary lens that I use is the Canon 50mm 1.8 that I use for portraits. My kit lens gets basic usage for my personal leisure.

I want to go full frame and I’m looking for a good quality but affordable option for a body. I looked into the Canon 6D, however I am aware it has been 11 years since its release. The price is so cheap used though, it’s tempting. My rebel is newer than that and it’s too limiting for me now.

Any suggestions for something a bit “newer” (less than 10 years) but similarly priced? Or is the 6D still a great option despite its age? What limitations could I experience with that body?

If I switch brands, I would need to buy an adapter to continue using my Canon lens, or just buy new lens gear altogether. All extra costs I wouldn't have if I stuck with Canon. I’m not as familiar with those brands, so I’m not sure what would be the most cost-effective upgrade at this time. I'm open to any and all suggestions (including other brands to explore). Do I stick with Canon, switch to another brand and keep my lenses, or sell all of my Canon gear entirely, and move on? Thank you!
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You don't say what model you have now, but if you go full frame the EF-S lenses are not suitable.

In what way is you present camera too limiting? I think people would need to know that to make better suggestions.

I ditched Canon a couple of years ago and went with Panasonic Lumix M43, main camera now is a G9, and have not looked back.

As for limitations you may find with a 6D, may be none, all depends on what you do, and what you fine limiting now. Limitations others may find, you may never notice, and limitations you may find others may never notice.
 
In different thing's I read where people change brands. Brand they were using never failed them but they simply feel the need to up grade so go with a different brand they never used thinking they accomplished something. I think Canon cameras are probably as good as any out there and you already sknow something about them, why change? I shoot a Nikon and not a clue how to do all it will do but if I got a new camera of a different brand, I'd be starting all over. On the other hand if there's actually something about Canon that actually bother's you, then change. I don't know that I'll ever get another DSLR but then I'm old. If I did I'm quite sure it would be another Nikon. Nothing I'd call special about Nikon but the ones I've had have all made me happy and I don't even know how to use all the things in them! That guy above me got it down pretty well!
 
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Canon Rebel would be a variant of Canon's xxxD line of cameras. Going full frame would mean going to one of the variants of the 5D range (6 cameras), 6D range (2 cameras) 1DS range (3 cameras), 1DX range (3 cameras) or one of the mirrorless cameras (currently 7 cameras - R / Ra / RP / R5 / R6 / R6 II / R3) . Some of these are going to be older than your current camera (not that it makes it a worse camera). The advantage of sticking with Canon is familiarity as the cameras all work in the same way. You'll feel instantly at home.

Full frame Canon will accept your 50mm f/1.8, but not your kit lens which is likely to be EF-S fitment. With a Canon R series camera you'll need an adaptor.

If you switched systems, some will allow an adaptor, but the cost the adaptor may be negated by buying a native lens in that fitment.

You are aware that the 50mm f/1.8 will be noticably different on a full frame camera.
 
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In addition to the above points, what is your motivation for wanting to move to full frame?
 
There really is no point in changing camera brands unless you know that you have an absolute requirement that your current brand doesn't supply. It makes no sense and just adds to the cost of your upgrade.

However - you appear to not understand the implications of an upgrade to FF* with the same brand (you're wasting your energy on questions you don't need answers to whilst ignoring the important stuff you need to learn).

The 6d is cheap, actually very good VFM, it's a brilliant camera for shooting portraits on a budget (I still have one, will likely never get rid of it).

It's limitations? The AF is terrible compared to a 5dIII or 5dIV, and light years behind the R6, but if you're happy to focus recompose, the images are clean and wonderful - it's a lovely little camera.

*The costs - you'll need a new std zoom, there isn't really an option as cheap as the EF-S lenses, but if you're happy with older kit, the old 28-105 (£100 ish) was fantastic on my film EOS cameras (and I often consider buying another). The 50mm will fit on the 6d, but it's a different lens entirely, to recreate what you're doing with the 50 on the Rebel you'll need an 85mm 1.8 (about £200 s/h).

The cheapest option might be to keep the Rebel and it's std zoom, then to trade in the 50mm against an 85. Hope that helps.

There's a whole other post about not going FF but just upgrading your current body to keep using the current lenses.
 
@cans11
I think if you want some genuinely helpful advice it’d help everyone if you told us what camera you have now and what you really want from an upgrade.

It might be that a later Canon crop is the best option (much cheaper than a FF upgrade of whatever brand).

Or if you’re really struck on a change of brand, why that is, then you’ll get some more tailored help.
 
cans11 said:
My kit lens gets basic usage for my personal leisure.
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I can't see the point of updating the camera body if you just have a 'kit lens'. I suspect that might be an EF-S 18-55. If you do spend on a FF body then you would have to spend some more money on lenses that are compatible with full-frame. As mentioned above the 50mm f1.8 will give you a different view on a FF body.

I'd invest the money on EF 'L' lenses - which should be abundant now which should give you an affordable quality upgrade.
 
I use a Nikon d800 and d750, both full frame , i found the advantage to full frame is that you can switch to crop mode and get extra optical zoom if it’s needed.
for example i have a 500mm lens but in crop mode it becomes 750mm, i find this a useful option. Depending on your investment in lens this is also an important factor to changing cameras or brand. And finaly if you comfortable with the brand you have then stick with that brand
 
steve_lyt said:
I use a Nikon d800 and d750, both full frame , i found the advantage to full frame is that you can switch to crop mode and get extra optical zoom if it’s needed.
for example i have a 500mm lens but in crop mode it becomes 750mm, i find this a useful option. Depending on your investment in lens this is also an important factor to changing cameras or brand. And finaly if you comfortable with the brand you have then stick with that brand
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On the Nikon system, and Pentax also, cameras detect if a DX/DA lens is attached on a full-frame camera and the camera goes into crop mode. IIRC.

Canon doesn't give you that option, I believe EF-S (APS-C) lenses should not be attached to 5D/6D/1D series cameras at all, yet EF (full frame) lenses can be fitted to every EOS camera made.
 
Yes i should have added it also depends on the model of camera you want to change to. I know that Nikon system allows cropped lens and full frame lenses can be used on all the Nikons , but some will be automatically cropped or only be manual focus. I have never experienced other brands , but i am aware of the canon cropped and full frame lens issue
 
steve_lyt said:
I use a Nikon d800 and d750, both full frame , i found the advantage to full frame is that you can switch to crop mode and get extra optical zoom if it’s needed.
for example i have a 500mm lens but in crop mode it becomes 750mm, i find this a useful option. Depending on your investment in lens this is also an important factor to changing cameras or brand. And finaly if you comfortable with the brand you have then stick with that brand
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It's not adding optical zoom - switching to crop mode simply provides a cropped image, exactly as if you had taken the FF image and then cropped it in post - which is Digital zoom.
 
Canon crop cameras can take EF-S and EF lenses.
Canon full frame cameras can take EF lenses only.

Cameras which have full frame / crop mode usually doesn't give any optical improvements, you go from a 24mp image to a 11mp image and the outer border of pixels isn't recorded.
 
Crop mode in ff cameras is an optical crop, so the pixel size is uneffected, it just that only part of the sensor is used. It’s just like using a cropped camera with the same lens
 
welshwizard645 said:
On the Nikon system, and Pentax also, cameras detect if a DX/DA lens is attached on a full-frame camera and the camera goes into crop mode. IIRC.

Canon doesn't give you that option, I believe EF-S (APS-C) lenses should not be attached to 5D/6D/1D series cameras at all, yet EF (full frame) lenses can be fitted to every EOS camera made.
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Unfortunately
On the later R mirrorless bodies Canon has chosen to offer this option for EF-S lenses on the adaptor

Sadly as I always thought Canons original approach to be the correct one.
 
The problem with EF-S lenses on a full frame camera is that the protrusion of the lens rear element can hit the mirror. Some don't and those exhibit heavy vignetting as the lens is designed around a crop sensor.

When developing the R platform Canon would have considered the multitude of possibilities, and probably came to the decision that an adaptor was the way to go to achieve all their future aims yet providing a degree of backwards compatibility.

I've recently dipped a toe in Canon's R system, with an R7 - there is much I quite like, and several things I dislike (the small form factor / lack of battery grip / lack of LCD display) - and for the time being I will always have an adaptor on the front. I don't own any RF lenses (yet), and my lenses and teleconverters also have to work with a 1DX2, a 7D2 (and in an absolute emergency my wife's 40D), so until the 1DX2 workhorse dies, I'll be sticking to EF unless there is an extremely compelling argument for RF version. The R7 also takes SD cards, which although I dislike, are cheap, and I don't want to heavily invest in memory cards which turn out to be a blind alley.
 
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As someone who's been in this situation - I'll chuck in my 2p.

My first DSLR was a Canon 600d.

It was a remarkable step up from my previous point and shoots.

It came with an 18-135 kit lens. I underestimated how good this actually was.

Everyone said 'get a nifty 50' but I didn't understand that 50mm on crop is broadly equivalent to around 85mm on full frame. Which is pretty zoomed in for most occasions - especially anything indoors. I liked the 1.8 bokeh effect though.

I wanted more range, so bought a Sigma 18-250 lens.

It was noticeably worse than the canon kit lens. Especially on Bokeh.

My daughter fancied 'getting into photography' so I bought her a £30 300d Canon and a £20 24-70 Tamron lens. The lens was dross, but switching it over to my other lenses, It produced comparable images to the 600d for a 20th of the price.

She never really used it so I sold it on. I couldn't bear to sell the Tamron lens to an actual person, so included that in a trade in to MPB.

A friend of mine was selling a 20d for £50. So I bought that and genuinely loved it. Produced very clean images despite being almost the oldest possible Canon camera. Certainly felt like they had less noise when compared to the 600d on the same lenses.

Quite liked the idea of a newer version of the 20D and got a bargain on an 80D new from John Lewis at about £200 under list. So sold the 600D (and the horrible Sigma 18-250) as well as the 20D to recoup some costs.

Didn't really think the 80D was any less noisy than the 600D TBH.

Still had a hankering for FF so looked into a 5D MKI (or classic as they're now being called). This genuinely was a revelation. Despite being over 10 years old when I got it, it was still more than capable of anything I would throw at it. It was certainly more capable than I ever was (or am). the only caveat to that, was poor low-light performance as it only went up to ISO1600.

Kept it for a year, but then decided to get a newer 5D and tossed up whether to keep the 80D and get a 5DIII, or keep the Classic alongside a 5DIII. In the end I decided having the 80D worked for me as the batteries were the same.

But in hindsight I think it was the wrong decision. I sold the MKI to a friend and have instructed him that if he ever wants to sell it, then give me a call as I'd have it back in a heartbeat. It produced wonderful colours. And I enjoyed the almost 'back to basics' approach.

In the end, the 80D just sat there with all its lenses taking up space and losing money. So I sold that as a bundle to MPB, and bought a bought a Sony RX10M4. Which is now my ideal 'walk around camera' as it has a 24-600mm equivalent built-in lens. It's only a 1" sensor, but it works for me. Had it about two months.

Somewhere in amongst all that, I bought a 'little' camera for nights out - which is a Canon G5 X - 24-100mm.

What I've learned.

If I could do it all again, I'd buy lenses that were EF (and not EF-S) lenses. They don't all need to be mega bucks - several plastic fantastic lenses are EF fitment. But it would have made storage (and ultimate cost) a lot less. And given me options to use the same lenses across both cameras. It would have meant not having to rebuy the FF equivalents.

The only exception to that might have been when you need something ultra-wide on a crop body. I now have a 17-40L lens which is pretty wide full frame, but on a crop body doesn't offer much more compared to the 18-55 kit lens. For that I had the 10-22 for the 80D. It was one of my favourite lenses.

As an aside, almost all my kit is now SH. I've found that buying better, older kit is far more cost-effective than buying newer, worse kit.

But all in all, what I realised was that in very few instances was it the equipment that was holding me back. most often, it was my own ineptitude. I'm in no way saying the same applies to you, but you need to know what your camera is not allowing you to do, before anyone (including me) you can work out where to go next. I'd certainly upgrade lenses before bodies these days.
 
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cans11 said:
I am looking to upgrade from my Canon EOS rebel in the next few months (probably around the holidays). I’m undecided on if I should stick with Canon. I’ve also been considering Sony, Nikon, and Pentax. However, I haven’t decided and would like some suggestions. My primary lens that I use is the Canon 50mm 1.8 that I use for portraits. My kit lens gets basic usage for my personal leisure.

I want to go full frame and I’m looking for a good quality but affordable option for a body. I looked into the Canon 6D, however I am aware it has been 11 years since its release. The price is so cheap used though, it’s tempting. My rebel is newer than that and it’s too limiting for me now.

Any suggestions for something a bit “newer” (less than 10 years) but similarly priced? Or is the 6D still a great option despite its age? What limitations could I experience with that body?

If I switch brands, I would need to buy an adapter to continue using my Canon lens, or just buy new lens gear altogether. All extra costs I wouldn't have if I stuck with Canon. I’m not as familiar with those brands, so I’m not sure what would be the most cost-effective upgrade at this time. I'm open to any and all suggestions (including other brands to explore). Do I stick with Canon, switch to another brand and keep my lenses, or sell all of my Canon gear entirely, and move on? Thank you!
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A kit lens and a 50mm 1.8 is minimum investment, so switching brands if desired shouldn't be a concern.

A few examples of say Nikon, which I feel offer great used gear for the money, but there's other brands to explore as well.

The Nikon D750 has an excellent autofocus system and a good all-round camera. It can be had for less than £400. I had one and really liked it.

Or the Nikon D810 can also be had for around £400, with 36MP and massive dynamic range at base ISO. You could pop on a used Nikon 85mm f/1.8 (similar to a 50mm on a cropped sensor) for £200, so for around £600 (less any trade-in value you get for your current gear) and you would have a very nice setup, especially for portrait.

Looking at some specs, although these aren't the be all end all, but you can see the difference between your mentioned 6D and say the D810:

1687771627741.png



Plenty of other excellent professional used lenses available as well.

 
gman said:
Or the Nikon D810 can also be had for around £400, with 36MP and massive dynamic range at base ISO. You could pop on a used Nikon 85mm f/1.8 (similar to a 50mm on a cropped sensor) for £200, so for around £600 (less any trade-in value you get for your current gear) and you would have a very nice setup, especially for portrait.
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Missing the kit lens, but I don’t disagree.
 
When I got my D5000 and then again my D7000 I didn't get them with kit lens's. Still had the lens's from my D70 and they worked fine. I think getting the kit lens On a new camera is only good if you don't already have something that cover's it. If I were to switch from my Nikon to another brand I would probably get it with a kit lens for not much other reason than all the lens's I have only work on Nikon's.
 
Ah, so is it reference to the D810 not having a kit lens? If so, it wouldn't bother me as I find kit lenses usually stay in the bag anyway. If not, then I still don't follow lol
 
OP last seen 5 Jun :(
 
gman said:
A kit lens and a 50mm 1.8 is minimum investment, so switching brands if desired shouldn't be a concern.

A few examples of say Nikon, which I feel offer great used gear for the money, but there's other brands to explore as well.

The Nikon D750 has an excellent autofocus system and a good all-round camera. It can be had for less than £400. I had one and really liked it.

Or the Nikon D810 can also be had for around £400, with 36MP and massive dynamic range at base ISO. You could pop on a used Nikon 85mm f/1.8 (similar to a 50mm on a cropped sensor) for £200, so for around £600 (less any trade-in value you get for your current gear) and you would have a very nice setup, especially for portrait.

Looking at some specs, although these aren't the be all end all, but you can see the difference between your mentioned 6D and say the D810:

View attachment 393681



Plenty of other excellent professional used lenses available as well.

Click to expand...

Mentioned his kit lens at the start?
 
used 5d mk 3

dont let people tell you they are old, there is a massive amount of excellent pro photography out there done by that camera
 
gman said:
Cost of what?
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gman said:
Or the Nikon D810 can also be had for around £400, with 36MP and massive dynamic range at base ISO. You could pop on a used Nikon 85mm f/1.8 (similar to a 50mm on a cropped sensor) for £200, so for around £600 (less any trade-in value you get for your current gear) and you would have a very nice setup, especially for portrait.
Click to expand...
 
So where did I mention anything about a kit lens that you initially brought up?
 
Phil V said:
You’re getting there now
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That didn't take long for your usual obnoxious self to come out.

You still haven't explained why he would have to buy a kit lens with a D810, other than implied that just because he has one with his current camera then he should get one with a new camera purchase (below).

Phil V said:
The OP has a kit lens as well as the 50mm
You missed that on your list of camera and 85mm :)
Click to expand...
 
gman said:
That didn't take long for your usual obnoxious self to come out.

You still haven't explained why he would have to buy a kit lens with a D810, other than implied that just because he has one with his current camera then he should get one with a new camera purchase (below).
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This is very silly and frankly you making it personal is beyond a joke.

When you stated the costs of his upgrade, you missed the fact he’d need a std lens.

I posted that I agreed with everything you’d written but you’d missed the need for the std lens.

You then got defensive and went all round the houses before your personal attack, still not accepting the simple fact that you’d missed that lens.

Have a pleasant evening :)
 
Phil V said:
This is very silly and frankly you making it personal is beyond a joke.

When you stated the costs of his upgrade, you missed the fact he’d need a std lens.

I posted that I agreed with everything you’d written but you’d missed the need for the std lens.

You then got defensive and went all round the houses before your personal attack, still not accepting the simple fact that you’d missed that lens.

Have a pleasant evening :)
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lol nice try, but you forget that I know you and what you were doing.

Anyway, that aside, you wrongly assumed that I missed the kit lens. To recommend the kit lens with the D810 would be silly because of the resolving capability required of that sensor. I'm genuinely surprised you didn't know that?

In my opinion the 85mm on its own would be fine to start off with with a full-frame camera, especially for portraits as I had already said.
 
gman said:
lol nice try, but you forget that I know you and what you were doing.

Anyway, that aside, you wrongly assumed that I missed the kit lens. To recommend the kit lens with the D810 would be silly because of the resolving capability required of that sensor. I'm genuinely surprised you didn't know that?

In my opinion the 85mm on its own would be fine to start off with with a full-frame camera, especially for portraits as I had already said.
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‘You know me’ ? Really??
What a ridiculous post.

Of course the D810 in your opinion would require an expensive ‘kit lens’ replacement. But that doesn’t mean you can just choose to ignore the fact the OP would need it to replace his current use.

By the by
The only people with any interest in this thread now is you and me. And that’s only because you’re too proud to simply post ‘fair point’, when I politely pointed out your omission.

The OP was last seen on the 5th of June ;)
 
This now getting quite ridiculous, with no more useful information.
 
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