Mountain Biker

Oli R C

Oli R C

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Just wanted to get people's opinions on this photo I took at a recent bike race at Kielder. It's one of my favourites from the day.

Cheers :)

bike74.jpg
 
I like the framing / composition, the detail of the mud shows and gritty look on the riders face.

It's a little soft though. Have you sharpened the image at all?
 
Hi Freester. It only had Aperture's default amount of sharpening. i've added a bit more here, but any more and it's starting to look over done. Much of the softness is movement blur, but I was happy with the face, which I thought was the most important bit. It's just I don't like static looking action shots, so go for slightly slower shutter. Am I causing myself problems before I even start? Should I speed up the shutter?

Thanks :)

bike742.jpg
 
Right I hear what you are saying. Personally I prefer the 2nd. The face seems more in focus.

I'm no expert at this type of shot. I'm sure there will be someone else along in a minute advising on the best way to get some decent motion blur into the picture. Personlly I would probably try upping the shutter speed and panning a bit more.
 
The 2nd is defo better. Will keep it that way. But there was plenty of panning going on there unfortunately. :thinking:
 
it's very difficult to get decent mtb shots, the bumpy nature of the ground the bike is traveling over and the motion of the rider conspire to move just about everything your trying to focus on.

If you get the shutter speed fast enough to deal with that, you lose the movement of the wheels, go slower to get the spoke blur and pretty much everything is OOF

As for the photo, I like it :)
would have been nice to get the top of his lid in the frame, and maybe the front brake rotor.
 
Thanks digitalfailure. I've often wondered about the helmet, but feel it may lose its impact if the shot was any wider.

I've got another race coming up in 2 weeks, so will experiment with shutter speed a bit more.

Cheers.
 
when you've got it right, you can come and snap me.

I was out today and the chap with the camera in our little group managed to catch me doing ....

dfbike.jpg


i'd have lived to have the bike a little sharper, but i wasn't hanging about :D
 
Ha. Would be interested to know where that was? I'm involved with the trail building that's going on at Kielder.

Our website is www.kieldertrailreavers.org.uk (built by my own fair hands)

Lots more trails to be built during 2008... but I digress ...

As for the shot of you today, if it were me taking it, I'd rather be right beside the trail, and trying to fill the frame. Maybe I'm making things difficult for myself, but that's just the kind of shots I'm after.

But as I say, we have another race in 2 weeks, but one problem is it is a 1 lap race (50km), from Kielder to Newcastleton (7Stanes) and back, so not many opportunities to get many shots of the competitors. Planning will be key, and I'll think I'll be using a faster shutter speed. Just to note, I do use slow sync flash, which I find helps, especially to bring out detail, but also to improve sharpness.
 
hi m8, without taking your thread too far OT

The trail is quite narrow as you come down the ramp as it's a slope down the left and a fallen tree on the right, about 5 ft from the end of the ramp the trail runs into a bermed right hand switch back so there isn't an awful lot of room down there.

That pic is from a section of the black run at coed llandegla, there's a few vids on you tube that show the trails and that section (drop shore)

I'm planning a return to Kielder this summer......:)
 
hi , i dont know if you did this or not but i find panning and flash are a good way of bringing a sense of speed into my mtb shots . it ensures motion blur in the backround whilst keeping the rider sharp . however looking at the shot again it looks as if you did use the flash .if you`d have got a pic of me going up that hill you `d have been lucky to capture any motion. :)
 
Just seeing that boardwalk fills me with dread after coming off one at Afan on Saturday, more practice needed I think!
 
LOL.... That's a time when less speed kills :)

Its about 15ft down on the left with a steep slope down through the trees after that :D
 
fudge. Yeah, I did use flash. I love the way it shows up the details, especially in the face. And I always pan too. I think I just need to practice more. I'm beginning to wonder about my focus technique, though I usually experiment with that too. Maybe I should try putting the camera into Auto ISO, use fully manual, use a smaller aperture, and experiment with shutter speed.

Craikeybaby, go here, scroll to the bottom, and you'll see our 'Woodstock' feature at Kielder. Not advisable to ride when frosty!

digitalfailure, cheers for the info. Defo want to ride some of the Welsh Trails. They sound well good. :)
 
Good picture and the flash is very subtle with just enough to make the rider pop that little bit on the picture.

I have had a look at your website and there are some really nice shots on there especially on the 'winter warmer' ride.

I think alot of the people on this forum use remote flash which seems to get some great results.

Kielder must me nice at the moment before the mozzies come out to play!

Cheers,

Bob
 
Good effort mate. I take one or two bike shots as I attend at least a race a month as a supporting parent.

If I get you right you are trying to get an up-close-and-personal shot. This is one of the hardest to achieve as riders take different lines but when nailed get's the all important eye contact which your shot has delivered.

I use off-camera flash. I started with cheap ebay slaves but now use pocketwizards. They give textural light and because they are not "talking" back to the camera you can take a lot of manual control often pushing past the max synch speed of your camera.

I took this shot last year and was particularly delighted with it however there were a lot of failures to get this one.
511330870_6525a9d0cf_o.jpg


I feel it IS important that you get the whole bike in as this tells a better story and allows the rider to "flow" rather than being boxed in. Does that make sense? :thinking:

Oh, and get a huge data card. You'll be amazed how many you take! :LOL:
 
BobR,

Thanks for taking time to look at my site. And cheers for your comments. Of the three events there, the Winter Warmer was the only one I could really get some good shots. With the others, I was really marshalling, and couldn't move about, and one of them, was at a road, rather than out on the trails.

As for the mozzies... sshhhh! You'll wake 'em up! (y)

HIMUPNORTH,

What can I say... Fantastic shot! Bit of a zoom burst going on there too perhaps? Something I've experimented with when shooting rally cars (with mixed results, but some quite pleasing!).
But I take onboard your comments on getting the whole bike in. I suppose looking back at mine, it is lacking the bigger picture.
And Pocketwizards you say? I'll definately look into those, seeing as you can get results like that!

If you'd be happy to divulge the settings used with that shot, I'd be very interested to know, but you've already helped, so no worries if you don't.

Many thanks :D
 
Oli R C said:
BobR,

HIMUPNORTH,

What can I say... Fantastic shot! Bit of a zoom burst going on there too perhaps? Something I've experimented with when shooting rally cars (with mixed results, but some quite pleasing!).
But I take onboard your comments on getting the whole bike in. I suppose looking back at mine, it is lacking the bigger picture.
And Pocketwizards you say? I'll definately look into those, seeing as you can get results like that!

If you'd be happy to divulge the settings used with that shot, I'd be very interested to know, but you've already helped, so no worries if you don't.

Many thanks :D
Click to expand...


I think you are right about the zoom burst. This guy had the corner nailed and I had to zoom out to get him in. Purely reactive rather than planned.

Before you spend a lot of money on remotes pay a visit to strobist.com and search this site for other comments on remote flash. Some guys here have the process well sorted and there are other options to PWs but can't remember their name just now. :doh:

The idea for shooting bikes is to set your flash to manual on a suitable output (eg out in the open on a really bright day 1/4 or 1/8th and in the woods 1/16th or 1/32nd) and adjust aperture until you have achieved suitably lit rider. To balance the ambient light you need to shift the ISO, bearing in mind you will need to adjust the aprture after each ISO shift. You should reach the right combination fairly quickly after a bit of practice. I rarely shoot below ISO 400 in these circumstances and over 1000 is not unusual. The flash does such a good job of saturating the colours that the high ISO is not something to be too afraid of.

You will see from the EXIF of my shot that I was at 1/160th f4.5 with the ISO set at 640.


I know manual sounds scary but it really is not too bad once you get your head into it. The priorities as I see it are;

1. Get a suitably fast shutter speed unless I am looking for a different effect.
2. Light the rider correctly (this is a bugger when you get a rider with a dark outfit, then a white one, then a red and so on)
3. Balance the ambient light last. You ideally want to be about a stop underexposed but can get away with more so this would give you a stop and a half of contingency which ain't bad by any standards.

Ask more, read more. Pretty soon you will have it nailed and we be learning from you!

(y)
 
HIMUPNORTH - your advice is incredibly detailed and invaluable as usual.

I'm covering a MTB ride this weekend (my first one!) and taking along a transmitter for my flash, so I'll try to remember all your advice here.

When you say 'manual', I assume you mean using manual settings as opposed to manual focus??? :eek:
 
HIMUPNORTH, as ekimeno says, incredibly detailed advice there.

Pretty complex stuff, but while I think I'm getting my head around it, I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to simplify it at all - I'm just thinking about my success rate.

Would Distance Priority Manual flash be of any use? It seems you tell the flash the shooting distance, then it adjusts output while you select ISO, aperture etc... Presumably you can balance subject and background using this method?

I'm not questioning anything you've said, just trying to make it easier on my limited brain!

:)
 
Oli R C said:

Would Distance Priority Manual flash be of any use? It seems you tell the flash the shooting distance, then it adjusts output while you select ISO, aperture etc... Presumably you can balance subject and background using this method?

I'm not questioning anything you've said, just trying to make it easier on my limited brain!

:)
Click to expand...


That's a Nikon feature and I use Canon so I cannot tell you how effective it is. The main problem with auto output on flash is that IT is determining what it thinks is the right exposure when once you have fired a couple of test shots you know what settings you need.

Try both methods on test subjects before you go "live". it really is not as hard as you might think. This said you will occasionally be at a spot ramping ISO higher and higher as the light falls and forget to drop the flash output, then wonder why the shots are not "popping".

I have been at a few races and talk with the other togs to see if anyone else uses a different method however once the flash is off-camera most people opt for a manual output.

ekimeno - I sometimes use manual focus. When in the trees a trunk can "grab" your autofocus at the wrong moment. Setting a pre-focus and letting the rider come into your field of focus can prevent this. (y)
 
Well your advice certainly sounds like the way forward, and I WILL persevere with it. But is this the best method for on-camera flash? Because until I get an off-camera flash set-up, my flash will be on-camera.
 
It will certainly allow for faster recycle times however your distance to subject will probably move much more and I would suggest using the automatic settings on your camera with any preferred exposure adjustments dialled in. You may need to play with that until you get the "look" you want, generally slightly under prevents that obviously flashed look.

Have fun! (y)
 
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