My first wedding shoot

andyturner

andyturner

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Andy
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Hi everyone,

Some friends have asked me to shoot their wedding (in a kind of informal capacity, although there will be no pro there). They know not to expect the world from me, just a few nice shots of the ceremony and the two of them together/with family etc (so no big group shots)

My main concern is that the wedding is at 3pm on Dec 3rd - i.e. not a great time for natural light, especially by the time the ceremony is complete.

I have some low light lenses (50mm f1.8/28mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8), but I don't own a dedicated flash or fast standard zoom. The wedding is in a registry office (not a particularly nice looking one!) and the grounds around are ok (a few bushes/conifers etc but nothing too exciting).

Does anyone have any advice that may help? I'm a bit nervous to say the least, and don't want to make a complete hash of it :(

Cheers, Andy
 
If it was me I would enlist the help of a couple of friends and go to the reg office and grounds and see if you could do a few test shots a couple of weekends before, might give you a better angle on things and possible locations for shooting on the day.
 
SteveH40 said:
If it was me I would enlist the help of a couple of friends and go to the reg office and grounds and see if you could do a few test shots a couple of weekends before, might give you a better angle on things and possible locations for shooting on the day.
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Good call :thumbs:

I did go there a few days ago but couldn't get into the room as it was being used. They did offer a time to come back but I wasn't able to make it. I will def go back tho and try a few shots outside
 
I did my first wedding about a month ago - also for friends.

I went to the venues in advance and took test shots and that did help. I had two bodies (one borrowed), borrowed some lenses, and had two flashes (one as a back up). I also brought a friend along to act as assistant and second shoot some candids.

I had a shot list prepared of the group shots (they only wanted a few of various family/friend combinations) and gave copies of that to best man and another friend to help me co-ordinate the people (as they knew who the family were). I had a longer shot list for the whole day for my own reference with all the shots the couple wanted (and other detail shots they hadn't asked for but I wanted to include), where they would be taken and what equipment I needed (ie which lens, flash etc). I also noted on that when I wanted my 'assistant' to second shoot (guest candids) and when not (group shots she didn't so there wasn't another camera to confuse people, instead she did things like arrange the bride's dress.)

I found I used my 17-50 2.8 quite a lot (which I got following recommendations on here) and an 85 1.8 for candids.

Hope that helps a bit. I'm sure others with lots of experience will have better advice - this is just from what I did being in a similar situation. Hope it goes well!
 
Umbrella? Flash, I don't know how well the 500d handles high iso (the 400 and 450d were not great)? You might want to consider borrowing/renting a camera with good ISO handling.
 
I thought about flash but generally I hate using it (I used to own a dedicated one and got pretty poor results, probably because I didn't really know how to use it!)

I'm hoping there will be enough natural light to do what I need with just the built in flash as fill-in.

And if there's not...I guess I may have a problem!
 
andyturner said:
I thought about flash but generally I hate using it (I used to own a dedicated one and got pretty poor results, probably because I didn't really know how to use it!)

I'm hoping there will be enough natural light to do what I need with just the built in flash as fill-in.

And if there's not...I guess I may have a problem!
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After 3PM, in December, in Sunderland...yes, you are going to have a problem if you have no flash.
 
I really don't think the onboard for the 500 would be strong enough. A good flash is easier to work with than a bad one.

Also, you wouldn't be able to direct it. Really, I think you need an ettl flash. These work even if you put the camera in auto mode.
 
I also recommend you get a flash. I'm all for natural lighting, but I would much rather point a flash at a group of people and get a properly exposed and sharp image than rely on high ISO and low shutter speed to get a noisy blurred photo. If you're shooting group shots you need to be on at least F8 and 1/125. Even if you buy the flash with the intention of only using it if required, at least you'll have the peace of mind.

Be prepared with your shot lists and the names of the important people, and take a pen so you can tick them off as you go.

Good luck, I hope you enjoy it - you'll learn loads!
 
a flash is a must and a flash used right can look exelent, most weddings i have done 99% of the need flash, else to get decentish shutter speed you need extreme high iso like 6400 and up,
learn how to bounce flash.
flash used.
SJB_7913a.jpg

iso 10000 (d700)
SJB_7830.jpg
 
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andy,

take a flash gun mate. dont use the onboard one. bounce it off walls and ceilings where possible. a stofen omni bounce may help if you dont want to take brollies......but......take a flash gun:thumbs:
 
If you don't want to buy one just for that day, I've got a YN465 with a copy stofen omni bounce-type diffuser and 1m ettl cable you can borrow. Pick it up in the next day or so, give you a chance to play with it :)
 
Carter64 said:
If you don't want to buy one just for that day, I've got a YN465 with a copy stofen omni bounce-type diffuser and 1m ettl cable you can borrow. Pick it up in the next day or so, give you a chance to play with it :)
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That is an extremely generous offer mate, and one I would definitely take up had I not just been given the green light off the missus to buy one! Yes, under the thumb I know lol.

Seriously tho, as previously stated it is folk like you that make these forums... True gent :)
 
Mike, from your experience with it, how would you rate the YN-465? They look decent on paper and I don't want to break the bank.

I am also considering the Nissin 622 but can get the 465 for about half the price!

Cheers :)
 
Andy, glad you're getting sorted and hope the day goes well!
The YN465 coped well with some bar opening night pics I did in town. Straight-forward shots of people for the bar's Facebook, nothing fancy.
(Like your wedding, it was a bit of a favour, beer n fags money sort of thing. Son's the assistant manager, DJ's a mate and I'm on good terms with the owner!)
Exposures consistent, ettl working fine. A little FEC when I had assistant manager in a white shirt and barman in a black shirt. Groups of up to about 10, which was the most I was asked to do anyway, lighting was even. I was fairly close most of the time, at or near the 18mm end of the lens.
The construction of the unit isn't the best. I'm not saying it's poor at all, just that it is what it is, an amateur tool. I can't imagine and wouldn't expect it to stand up to the rigours of day-in day-out work.
I knew I wouldn't be using it a lot, so that's why I went for price :)
 
Personally, I found the yonguno to be very difficult to get good shots from compared to the 430/580 from Canon. The YN didn't seem to meter correctly, but I am a novice with flash.
 
Actually went for Nissin di622 mark II, got bargain for a brand new one on ebay, 90 quid delivered.

The missus actually said get one which will last, and spend a bit more on it!

Knew there was a reason why I married her ;)
 
Well job done and have to say I'm quite relieved!

Not everything went to plan and I learned a hell of a lot, but I got some shots I'm reasonably happy with and hopefully the bride & groom will be too.

Thanks to all who gave me advice - I'm so glad I got a flash as I would have been screwed without it!

Here's some of my favourite pics from the day;

1
Isabelle_1_530x795.jpg

2
Donna_Mirror_2_530x795.jpg

3
Isabelle_Limo_795x530.jpg

4
Donna_Beau_1_530x662.jpg

5
Isabelle_Bubbles_530x795.jpg

6
Donna_s_Dress_530x795.jpg


Technical imperfections galore i'm sure, but hopefully caught some of the good moments of the day :)
 
Well done Andy, I hope you enjoyed the day. Write down the things you learnt in a notebook, and if you shoot another wedding then refer back to it. Its surprising how quickly you forget! You could also make a note of the camera settings for the photos you like the best, and what went wrong on the photos you're not happy with. I'm sure the bride and groom will be delighted with these.
 
Carol said:
If you're shooting group shots you need to be on at least F8 and 1/125.
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that's not true. for a group shot at a focal length of around 35mm effective focal length if the group is 3m away at 2.8 you have a depth of field of 1.29m which is more than enough for two rows. Put them all on 1 row and you can dial down even further.

This was 85mm @ f/2.8. subject distance of 5.62m giving a DOF of 73cm, more than enough for the distance between the 2 rows


group by MrJoeBoy, on Flickr
 
I was thinking of a large group of people 3 or 4 deep to give an idea of what settings he might need in a worst case scenario, it was just a general statement, and erring on the side of caution to get everyone in focus.
 
well, the deeper you go the more dof you need thats true but still f/8 is overkill, even f/4 at 35mm effective focal length gives a DOF of over 3.66m if the subject is 4m away, even 4 rows of people the most you would need is 2m if that, I would think :shrug:
 
andyturner said:
Thanks Carol :)

Not sure you deserved to be shot down in flames for the f8 thing tho...
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Shot down in flames?

How's that? I was trying to ensure you had the right Info when you had been given incorrect information. Next time I'll remember not to bother helping you :bang:
 
andyturner said:
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the comment, I just felt it was a bit blunt. After all, Carol was also only trying to help.

Didn't mean to offend though, so I apologise.
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Ok no problem. I am quite blunt I suppose, but not to belittle anyone. Just saying it as I see it to correct something. Sometimes people do want to use f8 as its often the sharpest aperture for a lot of lenses.
 
joescrivens said:
that's not true. for a group shot at a focal length of around 35mm effective focal length if the group is 3m away at 2.8 you have a depth of field of 1.29m which is more than enough for two rows. Put them all on 1 row and you can dial down even further.

This was 85mm @ f/2.8. subject distance of 5.62m giving a DOF of 73cm, more than enough for the distance between the 2 rows
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The information I gave was NOT incorrect! Andy didn't shoot the wedding on a full frame camera, its his first wedding. If he shoots a group at 3 metres / F2.8 and 35mm then that equates to 79cm on his camera. Not my idea of playing it safe for your first wedding!!

If its dark and he's using available light or bounced flash then he might be even closer, say 2 metres if he's getting a waist-up shot. In that scenario at 35mm he would need F8 to get 1.04 metres in focus.

The idea with wedding photography is to also show the location in the background, not to blur it out to the nearest possible inch.

Also, I don't go and get my tape measure out for every group shot, and I don't keep a mental note of the calculations for DOF in my head. I'm pretty thick when it comes to numbers anyway. These have all been through an online DOF calculator. I don't care if the calculations are wrong, thats not the point - you wouldn't have this resource available during a wedding.

Joe - out of interest, how many weddings have you shot? You get one chance to get it right. Messing about with shallow DOF on large group shots is not big or clever.

Andy, thank you for your support. I have a pretty thick skin so no offence taken :cool:
 
Carol said:
The information I gave was NOT incorrect! Andy didn't shoot the wedding on a full frame camera, its his first wedding. If he shoots a group at 3 metres / F2.8 and 35mm then that equates to 79cm on his camera. Not my idea of playing it safe for your first wedding!!

If its dark and he's using available light or bounced flash then he might be even closer, say 2 metres if he's getting a waist-up shot. In that scenario at 35mm he would need F8 to get 1.04 metres in focus.

The idea with wedding photography is to also show the location in the background, not to blur it out to the nearest possible inch.

Also, I don't go and get my tape measure out for every group shot, and I don't keep a mental note of the calculations for DOF in my head. I'm pretty thick when it comes to numbers anyway. These have all been through an online DOF calculator. I don't care if the calculations are wrong, thats not the point - you wouldn't have this resource available during a wedding.

Joe - out of interest, how many weddings have you shot? You get one chance to get it right. Messing about with shallow DOF on large group shots is not big or clever.

Andy, thank you for your support. I have a pretty thick skin so no offence taken :cool:
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:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 
Carol said:
The information I gave was NOT incorrect!
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yes it was. Here's what you said

Carol said:
If you're shooting group shots you need to be on at least F8 and 1/125.
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At least f/8 was your comment.

Carol said:
Andy didn't shoot the wedding on a full frame camera, its his first wedding. If he shoots a group at 3 metres / F2.8 and 35mm then that equates to 79cm on his camera. Not my idea of playing it safe for your first wedding!!
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I said "effective focal length" of 35mm which means it is irrelevant whether he is shooting full frame or crop. If he actually dialled 35mm onto his lens on a 1.5 crop he'd be at effectively 52.5mm.

Carol said:
If its dark and he's using available light or bounced flash then he might be even closer, say 2 metres if he's getting a waist-up shot. In that scenario at 35mm he would need F8 to get 1.04 metres in focus.
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Do you know what you are saying? A group that close at 52.5mm effective focal length. You might just be able to get 2 peoples head and shoulders.

Carol said:
Joe - out of interest, how many weddings have you shot? You get one chance to get it right. Messing about with shallow DOF on large group shots is not big or clever.
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I have shot one wedding, it's here if you would like to see it

http://lucydougiewedding.wordpress.com/

I didn't say anything was big and clever. I was correcting something you had said that a group has to be a minimum of f/8. That is incorrect information. Maybe a maximum of f/8. Anywhere from 2.8 to f/4 is often more than enough. Even for a group 4 deep at a standard effective focal length of 35mm from 3-4m away.

It's not about being big or clever, it's about knowing how much light can pass onto your sensor and keep things all in focus, all of these is paramount to knowing what conditions will achieve the best result.

Carol said:
Andy, thank you for your support. I have a pretty thick skin so no offence taken :cool:
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I'm not debating this to offend you and I hope you can see that all I am doing is correcting some of the things you are saying. It's not to offend at all, it's just to make sure people reading this aren't misinformed.

At the end of the day, sure there are times when f/8 would be necessary. Like an 8 person head shot at 50mm where there were all in a line 8 people deep. But to blanket say that group shots demand at least f/8 is incorrect. As I have shown with examples, group shots can be as low as 2.8 or even lower in fact. This shot of 4 people was shot at f/2 at 135mm

1042.jpg
 
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Joe, I appreciate you are only trying to help, but I didn't start this thread for it to become a tit for tat argument on a simple DOF issue.

Can we get back to some constructive criticism on my shots from the day please?

:thumbs:
 
Andy, sure!

I think I have made my point and the evidence is that to back that up. I'll not say anymore on the subject and I hope my comments are taken in the manner in which they were supposed to be, and thats just to make sure people really understand the technicalities of the shoot.

No offence meant and hopefully, none taken from anyone
 
Andy, I was giving you my opinion on how I shoot large group photos - as much DOF as possible. I know a lot of photographers who do the same, and I'm sure there are lots who differ. Its up to you to decide the best settings for your situation. I've already commented on your photos, I think you did a great job - well done!
 
Carol said:
Andy, I was giving you my opinion on how I shoot large group photos - as much DOF as possible. I know a lot of photographers who do the same, and I'm sure there are lots who differ. Its up to you to decide the best settings for your situation. I've already commented on your photos, I think you did a great job - well done!
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That wasn't aimed at you in any way, shape, or form.

Think I'm gonna give up on this thread now :lol:
 
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