1. Bigfungun

    Bigfungun

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    Chris
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    I took a couple of pictures of a glider today and was pretty shocked at the state of my sensor after less than 2k shots and a few weeks old.
    90% of my shots (probably more) have been indoors.
    Ive ramped up the contrast etc to define the dust bunnies.

    DSC01931.jpg
     
  2. ancient_mariner

    ancient_mariner

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    How often do you change lenses? It's not the number of shots, but how often you invite dust inside.
     
  3. woof woof

    woof woof

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    Alan
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    I don't know what aperture you've used but in general dust bunnies are unfortunately a fact of life no matter what the interchangeable lens camera.

    If it comforts you at all I use my cameras, including a Sony A7, in any and all weathers. I've used my A7 on the beach in weather I could hardly stand up in and I've changed lenses in those conditions too and all the camera needs is a blast with a rocket or the occasional wet clean and it's fine and it definitely fairs better than my old Canon DSLR's did (300D, 10D, 20D and 5D.)
     
  4. Craig_85

    Craig_85

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    That may have been in there from the factory. Nikon include it free of charge!

    Although mirrorless is possibly more susceptible to dust during lens changes.

    The good thing is it should be easy to clean.
     
  5. Bigfungun

    Bigfungun

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    Chris
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    I dont change lenses that often.
    Its easy to get rid of / clean but i just thought it was quite amusing.
    I think with it being mirrorless its going to be more susceptible also.
    That was shot at f9
     
  6. woof woof

    woof woof

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    This may be a case of six and two threes. The mirrorless sensor is uncovered most of the time but DSLR sensors have that flapping mirror mechanism in from of them busily shedding debris and oil. I think things have got better due to sensor coatings and other anti dust bunny stuff they use these days.
     
  7. simonbarker

    simonbarker

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    That'd be where the dust comes from!

    Happened to me the first time I properly used the camera, a rocket blower or similar is unfortunately a must for these cameras, I can't recall the last time I had to clean my DSLR as the mirror gets the gunk.
     
  8. twist

    twist

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    Mirrorless is definitely worse.
     
  9. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Can you clean the Sony via swabs and sensor pens etc? I’m sure I read you have to be careful with Olympus due to the IBIS and ‘floating’ sensor and I wondered if Sony are the same?
     
  10. snerkler

    snerkler

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    That’s not that bad tbh, my Nikon’s can look like that after a handful of shots :rolleyes:
     
  11. Durbs

    Durbs

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    Yeah - fact of mirrorless life... Since moving to the A7R2 a rocket blower now just lives in the camera bag. Also I've improved by lens changing process so the sensor is always facing down when a lens is off which seems to have helped a little.
     
  12. LongLensPhotography

    LongLensPhotography

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    That's bad. My Canon 5DIII non-mirrorless has only got a couple almost a year after cleaning. And it gets a lot of use and a many lens changes almost every day.
    It is all about sensor coating, and shake off function to a lesser extent. Sony will need to learn lesson or two and licence some Canon tech.
     
  13. ukaskew

    ukaskew

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    Good lens changing technique certainly helps and it's just as important to keep the rear element of your lenses (and lens caps) clean to stop any bits transferring over from those.
     
  14. Gogster

    Gogster

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    Darryl
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    If the III is the same as the II then there's no mirror between the lens mount and the sensor, after using the II for a few months, there was significantly more dust on the sensor in comparison to my 5DIII & 1DX. I can only guess it's because the sensor is nice and exposed to the elements as you switch lenses.
     
  15. Dangermouse1964

    Dangermouse1964 Squeaky Clean

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    Pete
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    My D810 was pristine until I stood behind an aero engine which started whilst I was behind it, then it was absolutely filthy, I didn't change lenses that day and the camera is weather sealed but dust will get in no matter what, its a fact of life with cameras sadly, luckily they can be cleaned and dust doesn't cause any damage so long as its cleaned correctly, my camera went into local shop and came home pristine again.
     
  16. ancient_mariner

    ancient_mariner

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    I'm sure the contamination is nothing to do with the make & model of camera and everything to do with the environment and manner in which it's been used. Nothing personal towards the OP, of course.
     
  17. simonbarker

    simonbarker

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    No, dust really is more of a problem for mirrorless cameras, it's a minor annoyance but it's there.
     
  18. toohuge

    toohuge

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    My brother has a lot of dust issues with his Sony A7II - however it is easy to correct in lightroom - so I don't really see it as a problem.
     
  19. woof woof

    woof woof

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    It's a problem if you take a lot of pictures and then have to clone out dust bunnies.

    I'm a bit surprised by people finding issues as I take pictures and change lenses on the beach, under trees etc in all weathers and conditions yet have very few problems and in fact I'm struggling to remember exactly when I last did a wet clean of my Sony or Panasonic cameras. It's not as if I'm not fussy about dust bunnies, I am.

    1. Open bag and loosen the end cap of the lens I'm going to mount.
    2. Point camera down over and turn my back to any wind/rain.
    3. Remove the lens and place it straight in the bag.
    4. Fit the new lens.
    5. Fit the end cap to the removed lens.

    I suppose one factor in not having many problems could be that I mainly use primes, maybe some zooms could act like bellows and blow air into the camera body? Just a thought.
     
  20. ancient_mariner

    ancient_mariner

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    Based on a limited survey of 4 cameras (2 DSLRs, 1 Sony SLT - semi mirrorless, and an Oly mirroless) there's not really a difference. Having said that, I am surprised at how the DSLRs seem to pick up SO MUCH dust, when one would expect the mirror and shutter to block it.
     
  21. twist

    twist

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    Buy fast lenses and never stop down, problem solved :D
     
    Musicman likes this.
  22. snerkler

    snerkler

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    So you don't think the mirror flapping around will cause dust to fly around inside? ;)
     
  23. Dave Semmens

    Dave Semmens

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    First time I have ever seen someone say a company can learn from Canon sensor tech

    :ROFLMAO:
     
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  24. ancient_mariner

    ancient_mariner

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    But the shutter....... :p

    The D610 seems to get big lumps that stick & resist a blower, though they do come away with a wet clean. Never had to wet-clean my sony sensor in 2 years.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  25. snerkler

    snerkler

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    That'd be oil :eek: ;)
     
  26. ancient_mariner

    ancient_mariner

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    That would be the D600. ;)
     
  27. snerkler

    snerkler

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    Yeah that was bad. I keep reading that all Nikons are prone to a bit of oil, but I can't say I've seen any on mine.
     
  28. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    Extending zooms are dust machines, sucking in air as they're zoomed and pumping it back out from wherever it can escape, including the rear of the lens directly in front of the sensor.

    It's easy to see if your lens is prone to it, simply by putting a small plastic bag over the rear and sealing it with a rubber band, then watch the bag expand and contract as the zoom ring is turned.
     
    gremlin16 and RumpFace like this.
  29. snerkler

    snerkler

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    The Tamron 150-600mm G1 is the worst lens I’ve known for this, proper dust pump. Great lens though.
     
  30. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    The bigger the lens, the more air it pumps :)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
    snerkler likes this.
  31. Gogster

    Gogster

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    And the D610, which was released to fix the oil issue.
     
  32. Gogster

    Gogster

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    Darryl
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    Surely a camera who's sensor is exposed to the elements when the lens is taken off is more liable to dust than a camera that has a physical barrier in said scenario?
     
  33. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    True, and mirrorless sensors are much closer to the lens mount too, but by the same logic a DSLR's sensor that is only exposed for tiny fractions of a second should be pretty much immune to dust... but they're not. Instead, they have a mirror belting up and down all the time creating a small hurricane inside the mirror-box.

    It appears that both mirrorless and DSLRs are prone to sensor dust for different reasons, honours roughly equal in practise? The difference may be extending zooms that pump air in and out, or dirty body caps, or it could be camera bodies that are not hermetically sealed and debris that gets in through the battery and card compartments, and also around the various cable connection points, which can make its way to the sensor over time.

    Dust is a fact of photographic life, and always has been. We just have to be as careful as reasonably possible and clean things up when necessary. Not a big problem really :)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  34. Gogster

    Gogster

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    Darryl
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    Not from my experience (Sony A7R II v 5D3) the A7R was often having a sensor clean.
     
  35. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    You mean, mirrorless is more prone to dust? Could be, though that's not been widely reported as a general truth AFAIK, hence my comment above about other factors.
     
  36. Gogster

    Gogster

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    Darryl
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    My UN-scientific take from TP is that they do.
     
    HoppyUK likes this.
  37. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

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    Stewart with a 'w'
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    Yes
    I don't yet have enough data to provide a statistically valid answer to this, because we haven't been hiring out mirrorless cameras for long enough. But I hope to soon. Watch this space.

    Of course one potential complicating aspect is how well the in-camera dust removal technology works. That differs from one manufacturer to another; for example Canon DSLRs are noticeably better at cleaning their own sensors than Nikon DSLRs. So whilst I would expect to be able to tell whether Sony / Fuji mirrorless are worse for dust than Canon / Nikon DSLRs, that might be because they're Sony / Fuji rather than because they're mirrorless. Once we start to see Canon / Nikon mirrorless, presumably with the same dust management technology as Canon / Nikon DSLRs, we'll be able to tell for sure.
     
    ancient_mariner and Craig_85 like this.
  38. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    Richard
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    But what if it's not just a question of DSLR vs mirrorless, and there are actually other more significant factors? There are certainly some valid alternative considerations.

    On-board sensor cleaning as you say, maybe full-frame is more prone than APS-C simply because of the larger surface area? And extending zooms, dusty environments, and things like simply leaving the body cap off? For sure, if you're pumping an extending zoom back and forth in a flour mill the sensor's going to get duty regardless of anything else.
     

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