ND Grad Expertimentation

Mr_T

Mr_T

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After a long long time researching and then forgetting about it I've got myself a set of soft ND grads. Last night I was at the point where I didn't even know how to fit the filter holder to the camera properly (in fact I put it on backwards and was wondering why it didn't fit too well...) but today I decided to give it a bash. All of these were using a HiTech 0.3 ND grad with my generally playing about.

Annoyingly straight out of camera the shots were really lacking contrast which you can see if you click CLICKY. I played around with exposure correction and I think I've managed to portray the scene pretty accurately.






Feedback is most welcome, and if anyone knows what causes the contrast issue it would be great (ideally I want to cut down on my PPing and get similar results in camera).

At a second glance I've just realised that these are pretty dull, sorry about that :bang:.
 
I removed the curves layer I added to these as it made them too contrasty. I have also made a screenshot of the original first image in Lightroom CLICKY
 
Just a thought - what steps did you take when taking the shot? Did you set the camera up, and compose the shot before putting the grad on? That might explain the lack of contrast...

The way I do it is: Tilt the camera down so there's no sky in the frame, lock exposure. Tilt camera back up, add the grad, take the shot. Or set the camera on manual, get the ground exposed nicely, then stick a grad over the overblown sky.
 
Thanks for the advice, reddeathdrinker I really never thought about that. I just put the filter on and starting snapping away, the only thing I changed was the positioning of the filter or orientation slightly. I have also had it suggested that what the filter has done is make sure all of the data captured is in the dynamic range of the camera, which could make it look a bit flat but still give me the potential to bring out all the colour there.

I can't wait to give you technique a go, it's just a shame it's Monday tomorrow :(.
 
They are nice things to have in the camera bag for sure. I'm hoping I will like them even more once I've got my technique sorted :D.
 
Shameless bump since the topic has now been moved to the correct place (I think). If there are any ND gradders out there please help!
 
You have to check exposure for sky, then for ground, add the relevent grad (depending how many stops difference there is), recompose and shoot
 
I think it will only be fair if I try this again and meter it differently. It makes sense to work out which grad is needed for the situation. I'm hoping that the darkness of the tree compared to the brightness of the sky has meant that I used completely the wrong filter for this situation. I think next time I will do some bracketing to see what kind of results I can get.
 
Mr_T said:
I think it will only be fair if I try this again and meter it differently. It makes sense to work out which grad is needed for the situation. I'm hoping that the darkness of the tree compared to the brightness of the sky has meant that I used completely the wrong filter for this situation. I think next time I will do some bracketing to see what kind of results I can get.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry (or bother) with taking separate meter readings of sky/ground etc, just bracket & check your histogram, for most situations I find around 1 stop under gives a balanced exposure.

It will soon come through experience what strength grad you need for a situation.
 
Les McLean said:
I wouldn't worry (or bother) with taking separate meter readings of sky/ground etc, just bracket & check your histogram, for most situations I find around 1 stop under gives a balanced exposure.

It will soon come through experience what strength grad you need for a situation.
Click to expand...

If I could fix this by exposing differently I would be a really happy man indeed. I was a bit worried I had a duff set of filters or something (I really dread packing things off to be sent back). Thanks very much for the advice.
 
You could take a shot without the grad in place (the sky will be blown) and compare the contrast with the ground. I'm guessing you would still see a slight lack of contrast, that you'll need to adjust.
 
I think you'll struggle with grads for the pictures like the first one as the tree will always appear dark as its in the area of the filter that's darker and used to underexpose the sky in relation to the ground.
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
I think you'll struggle with grads for the pictures like the first one as the tree will always appear dark as its in the area of the filter that's darker and used to underexpose the sky in relation to the ground.
Click to expand...

That's a good point actually,although I had the same problem with the second image too which is closer to what I would have thought is a typical ND grad scenario. I think I'm going to try and different place at a different time with bracketing to see if it performs better :).
 
Mr_T - This is how i would use a ND Grad - if you've gone to the expense of buying them you may as well do it correctly.(Hope i'm not teaching you to suck eggs)..... i posted this in another thread some time ago

The idea of a ND graduated filter is to control the exposure difference between the sky and the ground- if you only meter after putting the filter on the camera the camera will adjust the settings to compensate for the reduced light and either alter the shutter or aperture to compensate for the reduced light - you will see a difference between the sky and the foreground by the whole shot will be incorrectly exposed. - the camera evaluates the whole scene, it cant tell you have a ND grad on the lens.

Set the camera to aperture priority with manual ISO and set you desired aperture.

Before you put the filter on the camera point the camera at the foreground (make sure the whole foreground fills the frame) take a reading (shutter speed) , then do the same but point the camera at the sky (make sure the whole sky fills the frame) take a reading (shutter speed). Then work out the difference between the 2 readings this is how much light you need to stop from the sky to end up with a correctly exposed shot - (2 stops would need a 0.6 ND) set the camera to manual dial in the settings you metered for the foreground stick the ND grad on and take the picture - The ND grad will stop 2 stops worth of light from hitting the sensor where the sky is on the frame but all the light metered for for the foreground will hit the sensor - correctly balanced image will be captured :)

Thats the theory - as i understand it anyway.;)
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
Before you put the filter on the camera point the camera at the foreground (make sure the whole foreground fills the frame) take a reading (shutter speed) , then do the same but point the camera at the sky (make sure the whole sky fills the frame) take a reading (shutter speed). Then work out the difference between the 2 readings this is how much light you need to stop from the sky to end up with a correctly exposed shot - (2 stops would need a 0.6 ND) set the camera to manual dial in the settings you metered for the foreground stick the ND grad on and take the picture
Click to expand...

Why go Ground->Sky->Ground?
Sky->Ground gives you the same difference in readings and then you have the correct settings dialed in to take the shot
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
Mr_T - This is how i would use a ND Grad - if you've gone to the expense of buying them you may as well do it correctly.(Hope i'm not teaching you to suck eggs)..... i posted this in another thread some time ago

The idea of a ND graduated filter is to control the exposure difference between the sky and the ground- if you only meter after putting the filter on the camera the camera will adjust the settings to compensate for the reduced light and either alter the shutter or aperture to compensate for the reduced light - you will see a difference between the sky and the foreground by the whole shot will be incorrectly exposed. - the camera evaluates the whole scene, it cant tell you have a ND grad on the lens.

Set the camera to aperture priority with manual ISO and set you desired aperture.

Before you put the filter on the camera point the camera at the foreground (make sure the whole foreground fills the frame) take a reading (shutter speed) , then do the same but point the camera at the sky (make sure the whole sky fills the frame) take a reading (shutter speed). Then work out the difference between the 2 readings this is how much light you need to stop from the sky to end up with a correctly exposed shot - (2 stops would need a 0.6 ND) set the camera to manual dial in the settings you metered for the foreground stick the ND grad on and take the picture - The ND grad will stop 2 stops worth of light from hitting the sensor where the sky is on the frame but all the light metered for for the foreground will hit the sensor - correctly balanced image will be captured :)

Thats the theory - as i understand it anyway.;)
Click to expand...
Excellent explanation there matey, thanks for that. I had never thought of using Manual to be honest, as I usually expose for the ground, then use AEL, drop the ND filter down and take the shot. I will try what you suggest though as it seems to be a far more accurate method.

Cheers.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Why go Ground->Sky->Ground?
Sky->Ground gives you the same difference in readings and then you have the correct settings dialed in to take the shot
Click to expand...

Because that's the way I do it :) - as the post starts This is how i would use a ND Grad.......
 i did'nt say it was the only way..... or even the correct way ;) and unless you do your initial metering in manual mode you will still need to switch to manual mode and enter the settings anyway which ever way round you do it.
 
Dogfish_magnet, that was exactly the information I needed thanks so much for posting it. I know people have different variations on the way that they do things but now that I know one variation that has been tried and tested I can give it a whirl then work out what else I could do or where I may be going wrong. I've long been tempted by ND grads but delayed them for years because I thought exposure blending would be easier (and cheaper) but I really want to get as many landscapes as I can looking nice inside the camera without needing extensive post processing work.

Have you thought about posting what you posted here as a tutorial in the tutorials forum?

Thanks again :).
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
Because that's the way I do it :) - as the post starts This is how i would use a ND Grad.......
 i did'nt say it was the only way..... or even the correct way ;) and unless you do your initial metering in manual mode you will still need to switch to manual mode and enter the settings anyway which ever way round you do it.
Click to expand...

Having re-read my post I realise it sounded a bit accusatory, it wasn't to be, I was wondering if the way I did it was wrong
 
:thinking: Errm, daft question number 2 of several hundred to come....

Do you just have to cover the sky with the filter ?? as wouldnt covering the entire lens under expose both sky and ground.

Your welcome to shoot me if that is a particularly stupid question.
 
Just the sky because we're talking about using graduated filters rather than neutral density filters (which lower the exposure for the whole scene)
 
All bar one said:
:thinking: Errm, daft question number 2 of several hundred to come....

Do you just have to cover the sky with the filter ?? as wouldnt covering the entire lens under expose both sky and ground.

Your welcome to shoot me if that is a particularly stupid question.
Click to expand...

The only stupid question is a question not asked.

As rick said above - just the sky as a ND grad looks something similar to this - clear at the bottom with a darker top half.

ndgrad.jpg
 
Which meter mode do you tend to use when you're shooting with these different methods? Spot or matrix?
 
welly said:
Which meter mode do you tend to use when you're shooting with these different methods? Spot or matrix?
Click to expand...

If you want to use the method mentioned above, the entire frame will be filled with the sky and then later the ground so you could use matrix or spot metering for that. Matrix would probably be better because it will work out an average value for say that sky (which can differ hugely). If you don't want to fill the frame with the sky and then the foreground you could use spot metering to meter them both separately without actually moving the camera around.
 
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