Need a definate answer...

D

djs

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727
Name
Daniel
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi all,

Right, I think I have asked this question quite a while back but I'm not sure I really got a definate answer.

An old client just called up, and after realising that I won't be giving her a full res photo so she can go and print it on canvas herself....she asked if the photo could be removed from my website. Which is fine.
I apologised and immediately removed the photo.

What I would like to know is....do I need written/verbal permission from the parents to use a photo of a child on my website portfolio?

The image is not being sold to anyone else. It's simply being used as a portfolio on my website.

Do I need a signed document, verbal permission or anything else?
Is it illegal for me to use the images without permission?

Thanks

djs
 
I would have thought that if it was done for a client and you haven't got a model release form signed then you have to accept what she says.
I may be wrong in understanding this, but I am willing to be corrected.


Kev.
 
afaik no, by letting you take the photo they're giving permission and copyright resides with you, however it's not particularly good practice to go against parental consent for business purposes.

obviously you said you wanted a definite answer but you're asking on a forum when you should be ringing a solicitor or the like for definitives
 
Thanks for the replies.

I've been doing some googling, some people say yes, most say you don't need permisson.

I guess it's just courteous to ask first.
 
Can't give you a defintive answer as UK law is different to here in NZ, but one point may be relevant. A lawyer would probably argue that in putting a photo on your website of a child that you were using it in marketing your services. Also the fact that the website goes outside of the UK may put you in breech of something called the "Data Protection Act".

See if you can get a copy of the June 2009 issue of Digital Camera World as they have a legal section that covers it. You can also email their legal team at digital.camera@futurenet.com putting the word LAW in the subject line.
 
mikeward said:
wrong!! just cos you taken the picture doesnt give you the rights too the material in it.
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Why not? Assuming the OP owns the copyright (and they will do, unless it has been formally assigned to elsewhere, and no mention has been made of that) then they can indeed do anything they want with it.

There are exceptions to that, relating to derogatory use or indecency, but the OP has made no mention of that either.

Just because somebody doesn't like a picture shown on a website (and that is pretty much the only infoprmation the OP has given us) is certainly no legal grounds to remove it, even if it is prudent for other reasons.
 
To add further unfounded conjecture (;)), I was under the impression that you required a model release if the image is to be used for commercial purposes (i.e. used in a magazine ad for a product).

That said, I'm not sure if this would apply if the image was being used in a "factual" sense as an example of the photographer's work....

Either way I probably wouldn't feel comfortable using an image I'd been asked not to.
 
tbm said:
To add further unfounded conjecture (;)), I was under the impression that you required a model release if the image is to be used for commercial purposes (i.e. used in a magazine ad for a product).

That said, I'm not sure if this would apply if the image was being used in a "factual" sense as an example of the photographer's work....

Either way I probably wouldn't feel comfortable using an image I'd been asked not to.
Click to expand...

A model release is not a legal requirement, and the document as such has no legal status, but it's often a good idea as it basically shows the subject's agreement.

Not that technically you necessarily need that agreement but in some situations, a magazine or a picture agency won't use a photo without one - it's just to avoid any potential hassle which might arise if somebody raised an objection and wanted to mount a civil action, for whatever reason.

Basically, this kind of photography is so common these days, there is so much choice for picture editors, that they will simply choose a photo supported by a model release over one without, because it makes their lives easier.
 
I'm 99.99% sure you can leave it up on your website. For self-promotion you can use any photograph of yours, it's not being linked to a product or anything like that.

If you ever come down here to Australia, there are some bizarre laws in place:

For example; if you are commissioned for a private shoot, eg family portraits, a wedding.. copyright of the photographs lies with the client and not you as the photographer. Unless everyone signs something to the contrary beforehand.

Crazy, eh?
 
Jayst84 said:
I'm 99.99% sure you can leave it up on your website. For self-promotion you can use any photograph of yours, it's not being linked to a product or anything like that.

If you ever come down here to Australia, there are some bizarre laws in place:

For example; if you are commissioned for a private shoot, eg family portraits, a wedding.. copyright of the photographs lies with the client and not you as the photographer. Unless everyone signs something to the contrary beforehand.

Crazy, eh?
Click to expand...

Really?! So if a client buy's a 7x5, then they are allowed to go scan it, and print it as many times as they want?

Do you know if that same law applies in Australia?
 
djs said:
Really?! So if a client buy's a 7x5, then they are allowed to go scan it, and print it as many times as they want?

Do you know if that same law applies in Australia?
Click to expand...

Copyright laws are definitely very different in the UK and Australia. Australia is a bit behind the curve in a lot of similar areas; the idea of rights managed images still confuses a lot of clients, for example.

To be honest, I'm not really sure how it works down here. If a client has the copyright, I don't really see how they can control it, with the photographer having the files of course.

I always have it written out beforehand that copyright will remain with me as the photographer. It's hard enough to make any cash without giving photos away. :D
 
mikeward said:
wrong!! just cos you taken the picture doesnt give you the rights too the material in it.
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On what basis do you say that?

I have to respectfully disagree with you. Unless otherwise agreed (i.e. as part of your standard T&Cs, if you operate as a business, you assign copyright to your customer when they have paid your bill), copyright vests in the creator.

Have a look here:

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-applies/c-artisticworks/c-photo/c-photo-ownpost89.htm

The last paragraph of that link may well be where the OP comes unstuck here. It would suggest to me that even if the copyright vests in the OP, the person who commissioned the photo (i.e. the customer) still has the right to block its publication.

This isn't my specialist field so I'm afraid I don't know what the source of the right to block publication is. A bit of further Googling may assist.
 
Provided you took the picture under normal conditions the copyright is your (unless your employed by someone else as a photographer) and as long as you haven't signed over copyright then the photo is yours to do with as you please.
It might be good practice to take it down when asked but you don't have to.
 
she has no right to demand you remove it. you have the copyright to the image unless you sign it away. if the picture is a good one then I'd not remove it, she is just being bitchy becauseyou won't give her the full size image
 
mikeward said:
wrong!! just cos you taken the picture doesnt give you the rights too the material in it.
Click to expand...

hahha...

yes it does unless stated otherwise in a contract to that effect...as the 'author' of the image you retain intellectual copyright on that image unless it was a comissioned shoot and those rights were signed away...
 
No you don't HAVE to remove it. However, I would say it is best business practice to only use images that people have given you permission to use. (We have this in our ts and cs, which everyone's attention is drawn to before signing. It can be excluded if they require. In addition, I would usually check with a client they are happy for images to be used on website)

L

eta - imo what the law says and what is the right thing to do are two different things ion this instance.
 
best get model release for all shots if possible
signed by the parents
thats all i can tell you ...there could be more though with all the online sit..as in sugar..which goes down in this rotten world
 
If it is that good would it not be better to negotiate with her to have a copy that she could well have printed to canvas on the condition she signed a release so that you could use the image on your website?

Failing that ring her and tell her you are going to shred her hi res photo of little Norman never to be seen again.

Apologies to anyone called Norman.
 
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