Need help on panning cars

Merlin5

Merlin5

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Hi guys. I went out today to try out, learn and practise with the tracking AF on my Sony a6600. Just cars in the high road, me pointing my camera with drivers probably thinking I'm a policeman clocking them. :D

First I wanted to see if I could freeze the cars. That wasn't too hard, I put my shutter speed to 1/1250 and got clean shots. All I had to do was wait for the car to come into my focus box. I tested the same on people walking by and also was able to freeze them cleanly.

The problem I'm having is trying to get the effect where the background is blurred, the wheels show they're in motion, but the car or motorbike is kept sharp and in focus. I put the shutter speed to 1/50 and 1/30. I got half a dozen reasonably decent (but nothing really that would be good enough as a keeper if I were at a motorsports event) but all the others were full of motion blur, absolutely terrible. I'm set to continuous focus and using a green tracking box that locks on and stays with the car.

As a car came towards me, I locked focus on it and panned with it. But apart from a small handful that were ok, I never found a rhythm to get me good results every time. I never really knew what I did right to get the half decent ones. Do I need to pan a bit quicker than I think I need to? Do you have any tips for me?
Also, do you recommend firing bursts of shots or just a single shot?
 
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Getting consistently good results takes a fair amount of practise - panning ain't as easy as you'd think. Also, I'd highly recommend using a monopod. I found that helped me a lot when I was a panning newbie.
A trick that works for me is to start panning from behind the car, catch it up and then it is easier to match its speed, rather than trying to focus straight onto it.
 
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saltireblue said:
Getting consistently good results takes a fair amount of practise - panning ain't as easy as you'd think. Also, I'd highly recommend using a monopod. I found that helped me a lot when I was a panning newbie.
A trick that works for me is to start panning from behind the car, catch it up and then it is easier to match its speed, rather than trying to focus straight onto it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Malc. Can you clarify about panning from behind the car. Do you mean as the car approaches, to focus not on the car but on the space behind the car and then pan in the direction of the car to move the foucs box onto the car? Or do you mean get the focus box onto the back part of the car?
 
Focus on a fixed spot on then road and lock down the camera so the settings don't alter. Track the moving car until it reaches that spot and take the picture . You may have to repeat until you get the right shutter speed
 
Merlin5 said:
Thanks Malc. Can you clarify about panning from behind the car. Do you mean as the car approaches, to focus not on the car but on the space behind the car and then pan in the direction of the car to move the foucs box onto the car? Or do you mean get the focus box onto the back part of the car?
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This. But I don't start focusing until the focus point is on the back of the car, then just move to the point on the car where you want to focus. (using CF)
 
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realspeed said:
Focus on a fixed spot on then road and lock down the camera so the settings don't alter. Track the moving car until it reaches that spot and take the picture . You may have to repeat until you get the right shutter speed
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I'm a little confused. Am I pressing my back button to autofocus on a fixed spot, or am I pressing my back button to autofocus on the car?
 
saltireblue said:
This. But I don't start focusing until the focus point is on the back of the car, then just keep (using CF)
Click to expand...

Ah! I see what you mean. So pan behind the car without focusing, and once I've moved onto the car, press to focus. And then take the shot once the car is directly in front of me.
Is it important to keep panning after the shot is taken, i.e. to follow through?
 
Merlin5 said:
Ah! I see what you mean. So pan behind the car without focusing, and once I've moved onto the car, press to focus. And then take the shot once the car is directly in front of me.
Is it important to keep panning after the shot is taken, i.e. to follow through?
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Absolutely - keep panning, don't stop - a bit like athletes, they are told not to run to the line, but keep running through it.
 
saltireblue said:
Absolutely - keep panning, don't stop - a bit like athletes, they are told not to run to the line, but keep running through it.
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Right,and like a golfer following through on his swing. :)

I wonder why that's important in photography. I suppose after clicking the shutter button, if I don't follow through there could still be unwanted motion blur in the nano second the shutter is still open.
 
One other question. If I'm taking 'the shot' as the car arrives right in front of me, does that mean I need continuous focus but only set to single shot? Or set to continuous shooting and fire off a burst of shots once I'm focused on the car, all the way until it's in front of me to make sure one or two will be keepers? Oh and what shutter speed do you recommend?
 
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Pre plan where you want the capture the car, focus on that point and switch off auto focus, you don't need it, and don't move the focus ring again. If you are using a zoom lens, set the zoom to where you want it to frame the car, and again don't move it. Now pick up on the car you want to capture and follow it to and through the point you want the shot fire the shutter as you go through the point you previously selected
 
Karl.t1965 said:
Pre plan where you want the capture the car, focus on that point and switch off auto focus, you don't need it, and don't move the focus ring again. If you are using a zoom lens, set the zoom to where you want it to frame the car, and again don't move it. Now pick up on the car you want to capture and follow it to and through the point you want the shot fire the shutter as you go through the point you previously selected
Click to expand...

Thanks. Ah ok, so turn off autofocus. What about IBIS or lens stabilisation when panning, on or off?
 
Karl.t1965 said:
Image Stabilisation on most lenses has 2 modes, I normal and II for panning shots
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On my Sony 70-350 there's a switch to turn OSS on or off, so just one mode. I must admit, I turned it off during the panning thinking that stabilisation is only for keeping the camera steady for still subjects, but maybe it would have helped having it on? With my Sigma 16mm lens, it doesn't have stabilisation but then the IBIS can be enabled, again, don't know if that should be on.
 
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j crossley said:
Motion blur is relative to speed. Photographing a car traveling at 60mph with a shutter speed of 1/30 second will create the same amount of motion blur as photographing a car travelling at 120mph at 1/60 second.

As for image stabilisation, turn it off. The panning action negates the need for it.
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Thanks. That's interesting, I never thought about the relevance of car speed to shutter speed.
 
realspeed said:
Focus on a fixed spot on then road and lock down the camera so the settings don't alter. Track the moving car until it reaches that spot and take the picture . You may have to repeat until you get the right shutter speed
Click to expand...
Karl.t1965 said:
Pre plan where you want the capture the car, focus on that point and switch off auto focus, you don't need it, and don't move the focus ring again. If you are using a zoom lens, set the zoom to where you want it to frame the car, and again don't move it. Now pick up on the car you want to capture and follow it to and through the point you want the shot fire the shutter as you go through the point you previously selected
Click to expand...

This is the old school way of photographing a moving object, and how you have to work if you either have a manual focus lens or your camera body can't track adequately or is slow to focus. It shouldn't be necessary in this case with the A6600.

I usually just follow the subject, keeping the AF spot steady on the place where I want to point of focus to be. Here's a couple taken in single shot mode using the above technique, the first with a D610 and the second with a D70.

Copenhagen cyclist-7774 by Toni Ertl, on Flickr

Cars.IR.ICM-3181 by Toni Ertl, on Flickr


It would be good to get @snerkler into this discussion too, since he does excellent motorsport panning.
 
Very nice Toni. Love the first shot.
 
Merlin5 said:
I'm a little confused. Am I pressing my back button to autofocus on a fixed spot, or am I pressing my back button to autofocus on the car?
Click to expand...

forget about back button focus, focus normally. Focus on the point you want to take the shot and don't touch the focus any more because you have already prefocused on that point in the road, leave the camera settings alone. so when panning on the car when the car reaches that point just take the shot
you should get something like this

ZDugVB9.jpg


in this shot I knew the distance away from the dog, I had set the focus on that area beforehand ,So all it needed was to track the dog until it reached this point and took the shot. result dog in focus background blurred.

however if you didn't track the dog and just let it cross that point the dog would be blurred and the background in focus

The further away you target is the less effect of movement of the target ie a carand dep;ends oln car speed.

ancient_mariner
is correct and backed up up what I said. the only thing with those shots i would have used a faster shutter speed to freeze those photos more bringing the subject matter into a sharper shot. But like everything else it is personal choice and those are good examples


To summerise

prefocus on a set point and don't alter the focus
Shutter speed may need altering depeding on
distance and vehicle speed, may need several attempts to get right
track the vehicle to that pre determined point and take the shot
 
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realspeed said:
forget about back button focus focus normally. If you read my post properly I said focus on a fixed point and lock down the camera, You don't touch the focus any more because you have already prefocused on that point. so when panning on the car when the car reaches that point just take the shot
you should get something like this

ZDugVB9.jpg


in this shot I knew the distance away from the dog, I had set the focus on that area beforhand ,So all it needed was to track the dog until it reached this point and took the shot. result dog in focus background blurred.
Click to expand...

Ah right, I've only recently started photography, and I'm aware of focus and recompose which I think is allowing the camera to be repositioned within an inch or so of the original focus point. I didn't realise I could focus on a point then move the camera quite a few inches or more away and track the car and that the original point would still be in focus.
 
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This blue car was my best effort. Most of the rest of my shots before and after were like the motorbike. :facepalm:

These were done in low light which the a6600 isn't very good at. So it was ISO 2000, 70mm, f4.5 and 1/30th.

Blue-car.jpg



Motorbike.jpg
 
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Stand facing where you intend to take the shot & twist your waist to line up on the target on aproach. then follow the target rotating from your waist up. A good lead in & long follow through after shooting will do a lot to improve your tracking.
I find practice is important, & would recomend starting with faster speeds (1/200 or even 1/500 can work OK with race cars on the straights). It gets disheartening if none of your shots look sharp. Background blur is less impressive at these slow speeds but that will come in time, as your technique develops you can reduce shutter speeds & still get a reasonable hit rate.

I was practicing panning at motorsports meetings long before going digital, and have continued adding airshows & speedboats into the routine subjects. Even with years of practice it's not often I manage results quite as good as this one (1/20s with a long lens):
Take Off by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr
Shots like this one I can manage fairly regularly (only 1/100s with a closer subject):
Giinetta GT No 78 by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr
 
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Merlin5 said:
Ah right, I've only recently started photography, and I'm aware of focus and recompose which I think is allowing the camera to be repositioned within an inch or so of the original focus point. I didn't realise I could focus on a point then move the camera quite a few inches or more away and track the car and that the original point would still be in focus.
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no that recompose is something different don't confuse yourself with that. Oh dear I don't think I can make it any clearer.fous the camera on a point in the road and track the car to that point and take the shot.

Recomposing is moving the camera with the shutter half pressed to keep that focal point at something else. Normally done with spot metering.
 
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Mike you are correct and I forgot to mention lens size and quality which also has a factor in tracking. This is why I like nikon cameras that can go up to 1/8000 sec, suspect other makes can as well but I don't own any
 
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Petrochemist said:
Stand facing where you intend to take the shot & twist your waist to line up on the target on aproach. then follow the target rotating from your waist up. A good lead in & long follow through after shooting will do a lot to improve your tracking.
I find practice is important, & would recomend starting with faster speeds (1/200 or even 1/500 can work OK with race cars on the straights). It gets disheartening if none of your shots look sharp. Background blur is less impressive at these slow speeds but that will come in time, as your technique develops you can reduce shutter speeds & still get a reasonable hit rate.

I was practicing panning at motorsports meetings long before going digital, and have continued adding airshows & speedboats into the routine subjects. Even with years of practice it's not often I manage results quite as good as this one (1/20s with a long lens):
Take Off by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr
Shots like this one I can manage fairly regularly (only 1/100s with a closer subject):
Giinetta GT No 78 by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Thanks very much, that's good advice for me. Yes, very disheartening! Still, I've only had a few tries at this so practise makes perfect. I'll do what you suggested and increase the shutter speed and gradually slow it down incrementally until I get the knack. Great photos!
 
realspeed said:
no that recompose is something different don't confuse yourself with that. Oh dear I don't think I can make it any clearer.fous the camera on a point in the road and track the car to that point and take the shot.

Recomposing is moving the camera with the shutter half pressed to keep that focal point at something else. Normally done with spot metering.
Click to expand...

Ah ok, now I get recomposing. Yes, I did understand what you said about focusing on a point in the road.
 
ancient_mariner said:
This is the old school way of photographing a moving object, and how you have to work if you either have a manual focus lens or your camera body can't track adequately or is slow to focus. It shouldn't be necessary in this case with the A6600.

I usually just follow the subject, keeping the AF spot steady on the place where I want to point of focus to be. Here's a couple taken in single shot mode using the above technique, the first with a D610 and the second with a D70.

Copenhagen cyclist-7774 by Toni Ertl, on Flickr

Cars.IR.ICM-3181 by Toni Ertl, on Flickr


It would be good to get @snerkler into this discussion too, since he does excellent motorsport panning.
Click to expand...
Thanks Toni that's very kind. Those shots are superb by the way, truly superb.

OP, panning needs practice practice practice. Also, at the slower shutter speeds hit rate is likely to be low. Some people prefer to use a monopod but I find they get in the way. I believe using a gimbal can help massively as it helps prevent any vertical movement and just allows you to focus on getting the panning speed right.

Also not that unless the car is running left to right/right to left it's highly unlikely the full car will be sharp. Take a look at Toni's cyclist shot above which is moving at a 3/4 angle towards the camera, there is an area of sharpness and the rest is blurred. If you see a shot like this where the car is completely sharp but there's massive motion blur then it's almost certainly been photoshopped. There is a member on here who is excellent at panning but also at photoshopping motion in and has even written an article on it. I've forgotten their name, I thought it was graphix something or other but I can't find them.

Being as we're showing examples here's a few of mine.

1.
P6302247-Edit-Edit by TDG-77, on Flickr

2.
Marc Marquez by TDG-77, on Flickr

3.
A7R05836-Edit-Edit by TDG-77, on Flickr

4. And an example of accentuating motion blur in photoshop.
A7R06791-Edit-Edit by TDG-77, on Flickr
 
snerkler said:
Thanks Toni that's very kind. Those shots are superb by the way, truly superb.

OP, panning needs practice practice practice. Also, at the slower shutter speeds hit rate is likely to be low. Some people prefer to use a monopod but I find they get in the way. I believe using a gimbal can help massively as it helps prevent any vertical movement and just allows you to focus on getting the panning speed right.

Also not that unless the car is running left to right/right to left it's highly unlikely the full car will be sharp. Take a look at Toni's cyclist shot above which is moving at a 3/4 angle towards the camera, there is an area of sharpness and the rest is blurred. If you see a shot like this where the car is completely sharp but there's massive motion blur then it's almost certainly been photoshopped. There is a member on here who is excellent at panning but also at photoshopping motion in and has even written an article on it. I've forgotten their name, I thought it was graphix something or other but I can't find them.

Being as we're showing examples here's a few of mine.

1.
P6302247-Edit-Edit by TDG-77, on Flickr

2.
Marc Marquez by TDG-77, on Flickr

3.
A7R05836-Edit-Edit by TDG-77, on Flickr

4. And an example of accentuating motion blur in photoshop.
A7R06791-Edit-Edit by TDG-77, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Thanks snerkler. Very cool photos. Yep, practise will be the key for me. Given my blue car photo, I don't think I'm a million miles from nailing it, just need to practise and try the techniques that have been mentioned. Did you initially focus on a fixed point for yours before tracking the vehicles? I notice your shutter speeds varied from 1/160 to 1/10. I'd imagine 1/10 is a tough one to get perfect.
 
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Adding additional blur doesn't interest me, it's either there or it isn't. Kind of like putting a fake sky in.
 
Merlin5 said:
Thanks snerkler. Very cool photos. Yep, practise will be the key for me. Given my blue car photo, I don't think I'm a million miles from nailing it, just need to practise and try the techniques that have been mentioned. Did you initially focus on a fixed point for yours before tracking the vehicles? I notice your shutter speeds varied from 1/160 to 1/10. I'd imagine 1/10 is a tough one to get perfect.
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Focussing depends on a few factors. If it's side to side panning I'll tend to manually focus on a point, likewise if a fence is stopping AF from working well. For 3/4 I'll use AF usually. I'd say at 1/10 hit rate for me would be around 5-10%.
 
As has been said before, practice, practice, practice.

This was my first time out with the new Pentax K3 III at the first stock car/banger meeting of the 2021 season (run under covid guidelines)

All taken using the Pentax DA* 50-135 lens, all hand held and with shake reduction turned off.

Apart from a slight crop to get rid of some excess background all these images are straight off the camera.











 
malvern_man said:
As has been said before, practice, practice, practice.

This was my first time out with the new Pentax K3 III at the first stock car/banger meeting of the 2021 season (run under covid guidelines)

All taken using the Pentax DA* 50-135 lens, all hand held and with shake reduction turned off.

Apart from a slight crop to get rid of some excess background all these images are straight off the camera.











Click to expand...

Nice. What was your shutter speed? snerklers post above has some great examples and his flickr page tells me between 1/10 to 1/160th.
 
Merlin5 said:
Nice. What was your shutter speed? snerklers post above has some great examples and his flickr page tells me between 1/10 to 1/160th.
Click to expand...


#1 = 1/60
#2 = 1/100
#3 = 1/100
#4 = 1/80
#5 = 1/60
#6 = 1/50

All with AF set to 'Continuous'
 
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