New Announcements, But Where's The Rest.

[modchild]

Okay, so we've seen the 700D and 100D released today. The 650D has been put into the discontinued archive, but to me there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 650D and the 700D so I presume the 700D is just a 650D with a few tweaks added on. Why Canon have done this I have no idea.

I was hoping to see the announcement of a new 70D, but it seems I'll have to wait a while to see what's on that. Personally, I think the 70D will have to push it a bit to make this rather 'forgettable' announcement day worthwhile anyway. If the 70D comes out with a 're-designed' 18Mp sensor I'll be a bit disappointed, but if it has the ISO and noise handling of the 5D3/6D and the AF system of the 7D and a fps around 5/6, combined with the re-designed body and build quality of the 50D I'd be very tempted to sell my 7D and jump on the 70D. What would you guys want the 70D to include.

Also, the 7DMkII seems as though it's not too far away so what do you hope will go into that. With the technology from the top cameras already in place, how much will filter down into the next step down bodies.

 

[seriousrikk]

if it has the ISO and noise handling of the 5D3/6D and the AF system of the 7D and a fps around 5/6, combined with the re-designed body and build quality of the 50D

It won't

 

[modchild]

Well, I've just been on Canon rumours after the disappointment of todays announcements and, the latest is the 70D will have the same 18Mp sensor that the 700D has, Digic 6 processor, 6 fps and the 19 point AF from the 7D. No news to be found on noise handling, but for me anyway, if it's an equal to the 650D it'll be an improvement on the 7D. There's a few conflicting reports about build quality (similar build and size to the 50D or the 60D, Digic 5+ or Digic 6 processor) but we might have to wait till august/september before we see it.

The 7D II is rumoured to be 24Mp with enhanced noise handling, AF from the 5D3 and 1Dx, Digic 6 processor, 10fps, better weather sealing and 100-25600 ISO rating. Conflicting reports do say the 7D II will have the same 18Mp sensor of the 700D and 70D.

If the 70D comes out and with that sort of spec then my 7D days could be numbered. The only thing I don't get on with on my 7D is the noise handling at ISO1600 and above so if the 70D fills that problem then that'll be the one for me. Oh, and it'll be likely to be much cheaper than the 7D II as well. Yipee!

 

[ljphil78]

there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the 650D and the 700D so I presume the 700D is just a 650D with a few tweaks added on. Why Canon have done this I have no idea

Because 'consumers' which where this line of body's are aimed are so fickle and always need to have something newer so they get drip feed these small upgrades, where as further up the product lines where you start dealing with pro's and people who know how to use a camera without all the unnecessary gimmicks,users are happy with more significant upgrades every 3-5 years.

 

[HoppyUK]

I think it's wrong to assume that just because a new camera comes out with 18mp, it will have the same performance as previous 18mp sensors. I would be disappointed if it was exactly the same, but the fact that it now has embedded AF pixels suggests at least some new development work has been done. Or maybe not, we'll see. The big jump will come with Digic 6.

The dinky new 100D will be a hit, I think but the more interesting new Canons will be the 70D and 7D Mk2. My guess is the 7D Mk2 will effectively replace the 1D Mk4, with a lot of tech from the 1DX and at a substantially higher price than now.

That would leave plenty of room for a 70D that would be more like an upgraded 7D, if you see what I mean, with features taken from both above and below in the EOS range. Then Canon will top it all off with a 40-50mp camera to sit alongside the 1DX, swapping hi-res for hi-speed.

 

[dalegt4]

I cannot see a crop sensor ever having the iso handling capabillities of a FF body, they just cannot do it.

I also dont care for the insane high iso values all these new crop bodies claim capabilites for either, its all well and good saying the camera goes upto 25,000 iso sensitivity.... but what use is it when the camera looks aweful past 6400?

I love my 60D and regularly take shots at 3200 and use the images, however the 650d uses the Digic 5 processor and can shoot 25,600 iso but looks crap.

Yes comparing 100% images at various isos on reviews the 650 in theory "should" look better than the 7 and 60d... yet it doesnt.

Now i am not one for caring about reviews as i'm someone that makes their own mind up but ludicrous ISO numbers on crop sensors usually just make me laugh as as much as i love my 60D i know it will never beat a ff in low light and that makes the insane numbers a marketing gimmic and nothing more.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I cannot see a crop sensor ever having the iso handling capabillities of a FF body, they just cannot do it.

I also dont care for the insane high iso values all these new crop bodies claim capabilites for either, its all well and good saying the camera goes upto 25,000 iso sensitivity.... but what use is it when the camera looks aweful past 6400?

I love my 60D and regularly take shots at 3200 and use the images, however the 650d uses the Digic 5 processor and can shoot 25,600 iso but looks crap.

Yes comparing 100% images at various isos on reviews the 650 in theory "should" look better than the 7 and 60d... yet it doesnt.

Now i am not one for caring about reviews as i'm someone that makes their own mind up but ludicrous ISO numbers on crop sensors usually just make me laugh as as much as i love my 60D i know it will never beat a ff in low light and that makes the insane numbers a marketing gimmic and nothing more.

I would hope that a crop sensor would one day beat todays FF, but as they stand an 8 year old Canon FF technology is still way more sensitive than any of those 18MP things. One way to do this is get rid of AA filters, move beyond bayer system, and so on...
All todays super high ISO ratings are just a marketing gimmick. A quick look at dxo charts shows a clear picture. ISO 3200 is about the last usable setting even on 5DIII, until we consider that very noisy image is better than no image.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I'm still not convinced there will ever be a 7D mkii, think it more likely the 70D will be its replacement.

Can see the 70D reverting to the metal body and size of the older XXD range and incorporating some of the newer features available

 

[hollis_f]

Well, I've just been on Canon rumours after the disappointment of todays announcements

Is this the same 'Canon Rumours' that was convinced that 22 March would see the announcement of the 70D, the 7D MkII and the second coming?

 

[hollis_f]

I'm still not convinced there will ever be a 7D mkii, think it more likely the 70D will be its replacement.

Canon released the 7D to fill the yawning gap between the 50D and the 1D. It has been amazingly successful. Now you reckon they'll reintroduce that gap?

Never.

 

[Brachytron]

Given that the 7D is the oldest camera in Canon's line up, the update whether to a MKII or 70D should be phenomenal. Apart from AF, buffer and FPS, build and viewefinder, the newer consumer cameras look like they may start to beat it for overall quality and Canon cannot let that happen for long. I hope they don't go mad on pixel count, like the 24MP rumoured, but deliver high ISO performance from a slightly lower pixel count, even if they stay at 18MP. Almost certainly it'll get the 5DMKIII AF, probably 10FPS, Wifi etc. It will be interesting to see what improvements Canon have made to the 18MP sensor in the new 100D and 700D compared to the original 7D's from 2009 (which is still current).

 

[chphoto]

If the 7DII turns out anything like the rumours of 1Dx/5D3 AF, higher fps, better weather sealing then I'll be all over it. I love my 7D to bits, the ISO performance above 3200 isn't a massive issue for me because I tend to shoot in the daylight or with flash. Obviously the Digic 6 processor will help with the ISO handling if they do switch to a 24mp sensor, I imagine that 18mp & dual Digic 4 will be similar sort of performance to 24mp & Digic 6

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I'm still not convinced there will ever be a 7D mkii, think it more likely the 70D will be its replacement.

Can see the 70D reverting to the metal body and size of the older XXD range and incorporating some of the newer features available

Canon released the 7D to fill the yawning gap between the 50D and the 1D. It has been amazingly successful. Now you reckon they'll reintroduce that gap?

Never.

This is what nikon did to D300 vs d7000. Canon marketing department is simply badly out of date and may be trying to catch up . I would strongly disagree with such move, although a bit more affordable 7D marketed as 70D doesn't sound so bad, does it?

 

[Phil V]

They need to maintain the product seperation, the 60d got a body 'downgrade' to make the 7d more appealing, there's no way they'll reverse that for a 70d.

The 70d's focussing is a weak point compared to the competition, so it'll probably get the 7d's, whether that means the 7dII will get the the 1dx 5dIII focussing system is anyone's guess. The mkII and the 70d will get the GPS and WiFi, and hopefully the 7dII will get twin card slots. Other than that and the inevitable sensor upgrade that's about it. (I'd have thought that was fairly obvious)

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Other than that and the inevitable sensor upgrade that's about it. (I'd have thought that was fairly obvious)

You mean the 'brand new' familiar 18MP with ground breaking video AF II from 100D?

 

[buckas]

My guess is the 7D Mk2 will effectively replace the 1D Mk4, with a lot of tech from the 1DX and at a substantially higher price than now.

Yeh that's I'm thinking aswell - hopefully it'll be better at handling higher ISO than the mk1, as that was pants

 

[acetone]

700D is just a 650 with a new finish.

They made a cock-up with the EOS-M so instead they have just shoved old dslr stuff in a tiny body.

Yet another 18-55 kit lens "yawn"

They are just getting left father and farther behind, nothing for existing users and for new users why buy a tiny dslr when CSC from others do the same job but in an even smaller package.

Canon maybe still be selling shed loads of kit, but personally I think they'd be better not realising an upgraded 7D or 70D, but spend time on R&D and bring out something ground breaking as they did with the first 5D.

 

[HoppyUK]

Yeh that's I'm thinking aswell - hopefully it'll be better at handling higher ISO than the mk1, as that was pants

Yes, the gaps that Canon has to fill are marketing price points as well as performance/spec, and there's a big gap between the 5D3 and 1DX, that used to be filled by the 1D-series that had its purpose but was always a bit of an odd-ball. A 7D Mk2 or whatever it's called, essentially a 1DX with 1.6x sensor, fits the bill perfectly. It will be sensational I'm sure, but will be way, way more expensive than the 7D.

Then there's the gap below the 5D3 and the consumer models. That would suit a 70D, basically filling the current 7D's slot, and sitting alongside the 6D.

 

[dalegt4]

I find it strange though, yes as people keep bleating on about the 7D and 60D use a 4 year old sensor... so what?

No really, I mean so what?

Some absolutely outstanding photos have been taken with the 7D and 60D using their "old" and "has been" sensor so people seem to keep implying, to be frank, I think its pretty rediculous to say its old hat because I still see people taking phenominal pictures on 20D's and the alike and they are stone age compared to the 18mp 7 and 60D's.

4 years ago when the camera came out reviews raved saying how astonishing the image quality was, people seem to be under the illusion that because it is now "old" that the image quality has worsened or something?

Insane i'm sorry and I may be biased in the fact that I own one of the said "old" sensor cameras but in all honesty when put in the right hands they more than match 90% of todays that DXO or whatever claim are 90000% better on overall image quality, strange as when looking at a variety of images and iso's on review sites you cant actually see much of this gazillion percent image quality.

ISO performance can and should be improved, I will happily shoot at 3200 but personally I would like to see the newer models give great clarity and quality at nearer 12k.

I know people will say oh the new ones can hit 25k... yeah and the image has so much noise that it might as well of not been taken.

 

[acetone]

I find it strange though, yes as people keep bleating on about the 7D and 60D use a 4 year old sensor... so what?

Basically because Nikon have not stuck with very good 4 year old sensors, but have made even better newer sensors, and we want to know why the much larger company of Canon is just resting on it laurels and not given us the same improvements.

 

[Steve Smith]

Why Canon have done this I have no idea..

Don't worry. I'm sure they know why!

All todays super high ISO ratings are just a marketing gimmick.

Agreed. When I use film, ISO 100 and 400 is enough for me. Not sure why I would ever want ISO settings in the thousands yet it seems to be what everyone talks about when discussing new cameras.

They must be taking portraits of black cats in coal cellars at night!


Steve.

 

[dalegt4]

Thankyou Steve, you say what I think, they are just that, Nikon put up ratings of 25k on the crops and the 650d claims 25 or something too and it is totally useless at that rating so what on earth is the point in it other than pub talk!

 

[dalegt4]

but with regards to the old sensor, theres an old saying and its why ive kept my old car and never took the engine out.... sometimes if its not broke, don't fix it.

I agree they should be looking at making them superior as they are knocking on but its still a very capable sensor

 

[acetone]

but with regards to the old sensor, theres an old saying and its why ive kept my old car and never took the engine out.... sometimes if its not broke, don't fix it.

r

That's probably what they said at many a British sports car manufacture in the 60s

Cameras company's are in the technology industry, it's improve or die, standing still just does not cut it any more.


Nobody is say the older kit in now rubbish, my old 30D is still a fine camera, what we are saying the new models have to be improvement over older ones and not just a cosmetic change, which the 700D looks to mainly be.

 

[dalegt4]

this is my point though, i'm not saying it is as i have never used a Nikon, but for arguments sake the 7D and 60D hold their own in comparison to Nikons new equivelants then this may well be why they havent bothered to do a massive change in things?

There must be a reason in which they are not doing so.

With regards to my comment about not being broke don't fix i speak an example in terms of engines( I know they are not the same but engines are of a technical nature), Toyota first introduced the 3s engine block back in the early 1980's and its been through multiple cars up untill late 2000's.

Toyota still used a revised 3s Beams block in the Lexus Touring car up to the mid 2000's.

In essence the block didnt actually change that much, what did was the head, now I know engines are totally different to sesors but what i'm getting at is that "if" you can create an extrodinary product that can last with minor improvments and still keep up with the competition while not re- creating the wheel then Manufacturers will do this.

We all know alot of the time cost is everything and if they can keep up with keeping costs down, they will.

As you say, the 700D in my eyes is a bit of a joke when its nothing more than the 650D but I couldnt say as I havent looked at it.