New canon body or f2.8 lens to reduce noise in dark sports hall?

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tris101

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Tristian
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Hi All, I need your valued opinion..

I have canon 70-200 F4 IS and a canon 70D I have been taking artistic roller skating pics of my daughter during comps. The sports halls are always dark and poorly lit. The photos are turning out ok but as I need shutter speed 400-800 (ideally a little bit higher during jumps) I’m using high iso 6400+ so noise is becoming a problem.

So whats the best option? Change the body to full frame 5D Mkiii or change the lens too the 70-200 F2.8 IS I don’t have the money to do both… It will be hard to fund one change and imposable to do both.

I did have 50D body and the 70D is step up but the noise at high iso bothers me. I don’t think the 7D Mkii will be that much of improvement over the 70D in terms of Noise.

Going full frame will also require changing my canon 17-55 f2.8 maybe for 24-70 f2.8 mki or 24-105 f4

Any suggestions and guidance very welcome.
 
I suppose the best test is whether you're comfortable with an ISO setting 1 stop lower (to guestimate what it would be like with the 2.8 lens) by setting your shutter speed to half and using a temp tripod surface. There will be motion blur but you will at least be able to judge the quality of the photo output.
Most folks talk about investing in glass over a camera, I doubt 1 stop would make that much difference but i have no experience in shooting in that environment. The 2.8 is presumably far heavier and bigger to transport. Perhaps you could hire a lens or camera to give it a trial run of both options!? From a FF perspective a 6D would be far cheaper if you don't need fancy AF requirements and just more ISO headroom. It can also focus in lower light than a 5DMk3.
 
Thanks.. that's what I was thinking I don't think 1 stop will help all that much. I know the f2.8 would be a better choice and longer term swapping over will be the plan, but I think I might gain more by going full frame.

I did look at the 6D but I don't think the AF will be up to jump and spins as the sport can be fast moving, I think It really does need to be zoned/grouped Af points.

Hire might be an option to think about...
 
Going full frame body will give a cleaner image at higher ISO's
 
yes normally shot jpg and raw with noise reduction.

Thanks Snerkler that's interesting to see the comparison.
 
70-180mm it depends on the ring and seating location. A fixed lens might be a bit hard as the ring size is normally around 4 badminton court size as a min and the skaters use the whole ring. So I guess you would end up with lots of cropping.
 
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tris101 said:
Thanks.. that's what I was thinking I don't think 1 stop will help all that much. I know the f2.8 would be a better choice and longer term swapping over will be the plan, but I think I might gain more by going full frame.

I did look at the 6D but I don't think the AF will be up to jump and spins as the sport can be fast moving, I think It really does need to be zoned/grouped Af points.

Hire might be an option to think about...
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The 6D AF would more than cope with the action, I use mine for all sorts of fast stuff, I rarely get my 'sports' body out these days! Zoned / grouped / tracking af is all well and nice, but you don't really need it for most things. Centre af tracking is fine, as long as you yourself can keep up, which you should be able to do fairly easily :)
 
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Thanks Jim, I don't think I need the 61 point af the 5dMkiii offers but I do like the zoned function of the 70D its much nicer than the 50D. The 11 point af on the 6D are also not cross type so I guess its only the centre point which is good, maybe I need to go and try one and see what is like hands on. The reduced price would be very welcome but only if I don't end up wishing I brought he 5dMkiii.

What fast stuff do you take pics of Jim with your 6D? is the frame rate a problem? Any one using the 6D for indoor sports?

Is the body change to FF the best option?
 
tris101 said:
Thanks Jim, I don't think I need the 61 point af the 5dMkiii offers but I do like the zoned function of the 70D its much nicer than the 50D. The 11 point af on the 6D are also not cross type so I guess its only the centre point which is good, maybe I need to go and try one and see what is like hands on. The reduced price would be very welcome but only if I don't end up wishing I brought he 5dMkiii.

What fast stuff do you take pics of Jim with your 6D? is the frame rate a problem? Any one using the 6D for indoor sports?

Is the body change to FF the best option?
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I do a lot of horse jumping and cross country, a bit of Motorsport. And my dogs! I'll post some later if you want?
 
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@tris101 - here are some of my sports / action stuff from the 6d that I have on Flickr;

Playing with bike tyre 25th July 15 h by Jim, on Flickr

Rookley walk 1st Sept 15 r by Jim, on Flickr

61 by Jim, on Flickr

Bee in flight 1 by Jim, on Flickr

18 by Jim, on Flickr

62 by Jim, on Flickr

1st September 14 q by Jim, on Flickr

...whilst its no 1DX or 7D2 in the af specs, it can certainly handle its own when it comes to fast moving stuff :) One thing for indoor stuff, well two, it handles high ISO very well indeed, possibly Canon's best low light body, plus it has a very sensitive centre af point, +3 ev above Canon's next best which means it won't hunt in low light. It's worth thinking about if you think FF and its high ISO abilities would be of benefit.

ps - I think everything bar the bee was shot with the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, with maybe the Canon 24-105 for the dogs? Either way its all in the exif!
 
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They look good, looks like I will have to do some research on the 6D as an option. I'm pretty sure FF is the way to go to improve the high ISO and noise, then maybe the end of next year look to change the F4 lens to F2.8
 
buy a used full frame 6d or 5d3 later and buy the glass now. thats what I would do. those bodies will come down in time..the lens will hold its value and will be usable forever :)
 
Getting an f2.8 will give about 1 stop of extra, I don't think this will help reduce the noise all that much. With all the Mkii canon lens being released lens price have drop quite a bit 100-400 for around £475-525 or 70-200 f2.8 £650-750 so they are not holding there value that great at the min.

Is a new 70-200 f2.8 mkii worth the extra cash over a 2nd hand mki? is the 70-200 f2.8 IS Mki as sharp as the F4 IS version?
 
tris101 said:
Getting an f2.8 will give about 1 stop of extra, I don't think this will help reduce the noise all that much. With all the Mkii canon lens being released lens price have drop quite a bit 100-400 for around £475-525 or 70-200 f2.8 £650-750 so they are not holding there value that great at the min.

Is a new 70-200 f2.8 mkii worth the extra cash over a 2nd hand mki? is the 70-200 f2.8 IS Mki as sharp as the F4 IS version?
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Edit - ignore me, I thought I was posting in the Astro thread!
 
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The lens has nothing to do with noise reduction, you need to look at a different body.........more than likely full frame. The 5DIII is very good in low light but I fear the frame rate might not be good enough for you.

TIP: over expose by 1/3rd helps in low light
 
admirable said:
The lens has nothing to do with noise reduction, you need to look at a different body.........more than likely full frame. The 5DIII is very good in low light but I fear the frame rate might not be good enough for you.

TIP: over expose by 1/3rd helps in low light
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A faster lens will help reduce noise as it will allow the use of a lower ISO and hence lower noise.

Why over expose, that means higher ISO and more noise? I don't shoot Canon so by overexposing does this help noise in the shadows or something?
 
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Wow that must be a dark hall mate I would get a body like a 6d or a 1d mk iv
 
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