New Canon Mirrorless High End Camera? (Rumour)

Mike.P

Mike.P

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Due for launch in the second quarter of 2011, Canon's mirrorless is branded EIS. The first in the series - EIS 60 - is a high end mirrorless camera, not an entry level GF / NEX competitor. It will feature a 22 megapixel sensor. This is a brand new back illuminated design, 18mm x 12mm in size (approximately Micro 4/3rds sized*).

EIS stands for Electronic Image System, as opposed to the famous Canon EOS moniker which is Electronic Optical System.

Canon are developing new EIS lenses, at least two of which will be available at launch - these are the 12-75mm F2.8-4 IS Macro and 70-300mm F3.5-5.6 IS, which retract into a much smaller barrel than EOS lenses.

The camera also has a feature that windows the centre part of the sensor. This will be great for c-mounts. In this sensor windowing mode, the camera's continuous shooting rate increases to a whopping 20fps and resolution drops to 5.5 megapixel whilst offering a tighter crop of the image - great for sports shooters.

In addition to sensor windowing, the EIS 60 has a new Canon technology we've not seen before. I am dubbing it Pixel Fusion for now since the leaked information doesn't assign a name to it.
 
I don't know why you would want a "high-end" camera with a tiny sensor, regardless of whether it has a mirror or not.
 
They've also said to look at the 4K camera for clues too.

Will wait and see when it gets released, by the sound of it it'll need a big investment by any prospective buyers due to the new system. But then, it has also been mentioned that they'll do an EOS to EIS adaptor ring.

Canon Rumors
 
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That looks rather good :thumbs: And enirely possible I think.

I like the way Canon appear to have taken a ground-up view on this and not tried to fit a new camera around their existing lens range, or their current 1.6x format sensors. The benefit of that is things like 25mm f/1.2 become practical and suddenly creative depth of field control is restored for enthusiasts. F/2 zooms will surely be part of the picture.

I hope it's true, but it can only be a matter of time before Canon jump in. The two big questions remain though - is the viewfinder good, and can the AF keep up?
 
This seems strange to me for two reasons.

Firstly the smaller EVIL cameras from Panasonic and Olympus are apparently (so we've all read...) selling very well with Panasonic at least not being able to make them fast enough. There therefore seems to be a market for smaller quality cameras that are still at a more or less reasonable price. This Canon looks like it's going to buck that trend.

Secondly there seems to be a certain amount of resistance to these new cameras, we see it here with people who've probably never tried them bemoaning small sensors, lack of optical view finders etc... so will there be a big market for a high end Canon evil?
 
The benefit of that is things like 25mm f/1.2 become practical and suddenly creative depth of field control is restored for enthusiasts.
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1 - MFT sensors give a crop factor of approx 2X so a 25mm F1.2 has the same field of view as a 50mm F1.2, MFT is great for allowing longer lenses to work well ie doubling their focal length as far as effective field of view is concerned, but not so good for the wide end as you need to halve your current favourite WA lens focal length to get the same field of view.

2 - The smaller sensor inherently gives a greater depth of field making shallow depth of field shots harder to achieve, especially with standard F3.5-5.6 lenses.

3 - If there is an optical viewfinder it will be limited in its scope, think G11 here, most likely it will be an EVF, and how ever you cut it they suck in low light.

4 - Autofocus speed will be about the same as back button focusing on your DSLR as the same method of autofocus is used, thus depending on light levels it can be anything from slow to no go.


Now if they took the benefits from the DSLR range, kept to a APSC sensor or even full frame/decent optical viewfinder and rangefinder like styling/operation they could be onto a winner as they would have only leica as competition


PS I tried and owned a MFT camera, I found it distinctly lacking in a lot of area's so moved back to DSLR several hundred pounds worse off and a lot wiser.
 
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grum said:
22mp on a micro 4/3 sized sensor?
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Haha! yes, that's what I thought. Equivalent of 88mp on full frame :eek:

But some compacts are already up around this level and there's no denying that smaller sensors with very high pixel density are getting better all the time, and Canon will presumably be producing special lenses with enough micro-resolution to make something of them.

If you track recent history and project it forward, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that not only will cameras like this be quite ordinary in a few years time, and a lot of people including enthusiasts will be using them.
 
grum said:
22mp on a micro 4/3 sized sensor?
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That's what I thought - just build a camera that takes good pictures and pints to A3. Most people will never need anymore than that.

What I'd like to see is an Olympus or Panasonic full frame mirrorless camera. Leica M9 ish but cheaper and with all the modern technology.
 
Blue Eagle said:
I don't know why you would want a "high-end" camera with a tiny sensor, regardless of whether it has a mirror or not.
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They need to sell you something new. They can't keep making big profits for their shareholders from regurgitating (and increasingly converging) DSLR's and the market for P&S has dissipated with the adoption of better camera phones.

I'd be amazed if we don't see something similar from Nikon too. Get used to it - they are going to try to sell you a new 'system'.
 
Voyager said:
They need to sell you something new. They can't keep making big profits for their shareholders from regurgitating (and increasingly converging) DSLR's and the market for P&S has dissipated with the adoption of better camera phones.

I'd be amazed if we don't see something similar from Nikon too. Get used to it - they are going to try to sell you a new 'system'.
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Dead right. They are trying to sell a new system, and what's more you're going to want it!

I posted something about these new cameras over a year ago before anything was actually on the market. The thread ran for several pages of mostly (unpleasant) argument about how it would never happen. I even have a £100 bet with a prominent member on it.

Now we have several cameras about, like the Pano GF1 which has spawned probably the longest thread ever on TP - 120 pages and over 3,500 posts. Almost all of them positive!

PS No manufacturer in their right mind would want to compete with Leica. They gave up that sector in the 1960s. Full frame is a possibility with this kind of camera, but it will be a few years off because that market sector is very traditional and right now a DSLR is the best way of serving their needs.
 
HoppyUK said:
Dead right. They are trying to sell a new system, and what's more you're going to want it!

I posted something about these new cameras over a year ago before anything was actually on the market. The thread ran for several pages of mostly (unpleasant) argument about how it would never happen. I even have a £100 bet with a prominent member on it.
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I'm sure that is one way the manu's will go (there will be other ideas for sure!) The big advantage (to them) of these EVIL bodies is that they also get to sell you new lenses.....
HoppyUK said:
PS No manufacturer in their right mind would want to compete with Leica. They gave up that sector in the 1960s. Full frame is a possibility with this kind of camera, but it will be a few years off because that market sector is very traditional and right now a DSLR is the best way of serving their needs.
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Well, they won't make a EVIL full frame until the market interest drops for 4:3 sensors. Then they can sell you a new body and new lenses to match and the wheels of industry go round and round....

I think any of them actually chasing Leica (and making full frame rangefinders) is unlikely but they will be trying to market whatever they have as 'like a Leica' for the 2010's.
 
Voyager said:
I think any of them actually chasing Leica (and making full frame rangefinders) is unlikely but they will be trying to market whatever they have as 'like a Leica' for the 2010's.
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By Leica like I simply meant full frame sensor in a compact body - I can keep dreaming. I'd love a full frame compact with 35mm lens - if I had the kind of money Leica demand I'd buy one (even though I think they massively overcharge).
 
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RichardtheSane said:
Tiny sensor?

Not really...
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Well.. yea really. As hoppy said, it's equivalent to 88Mp, if canon announced an 88mp 5D mk3 we'd all think it was ridiculous.

But i think maybe you are correct voyager, it is purely an attempt to offer a different type of camera which requires new accessories. I suppose it could be useful for people looking for a small, high quality camera but when i read 'high-end' i though immediately of canon 50D or higher sort of high end and i doubt this new system could compete with the 50D or higher (in IQ, not sales)
 
Blue Eagle said:
Well.. yea really. As hoppy said, it's equivalent to 88Mp, if canon announced an 88mp 5D mk3 we'd all think it was ridiculous.

But i think maybe you are correct voyager, it is purely an attempt to offer a different type of camera which requires new accessories. I suppose it could be useful for people looking for a small, high quality camera but when i read 'high-end' i though immediately of canon 50D or higher sort of high end and i doubt this new system could compete with the 50D or higher (in IQ, not sales)
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Apart from at higher ISOs some of the M4/3 cameras can compete just fine with a 50D for IQ though
 
grum said:
Apart from at higher ISOs some of the M4/3 cameras can compete just fine with a 50D for IQ though
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As owner of both a 50D and a GF1 I can vouch for that. In terms of IQ there's very little in it (although I rarely venture above ISO100 on either!)
 
Blue Eagle said:
But i think maybe you are correct voyager, it is purely an attempt to offer a different type of camera which requires new accessories. I suppose it could be useful for people looking for a small, high quality camera but when i read 'high-end' i though immediately of canon 50D or higher sort of high end and i doubt this new system could compete with the 50D or higher (in IQ, not sales)
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It doesn't matter what you (or I think) - the manufacturers need to make greater profit for their shareholders. They will not do this by offering incremental improvements on DSLR's year-on-year.

I suspect the market is pretty much saturated - in that effectively all potential DSLR buyers have bought and the only sales are now from 'upgrades' - and although it will continue to exist and will develop, albeit more slowly than the past decade, the manufacturers need to find a larger and more profitable market segment.

They will do this by selling you a new type of camera which you will want to buy. Either because it is measurably better than your current camera of because the marketing will make you feel that you, by not buying into the new system, are being left behind.
 
Voyager said:
.....
They will do this by selling you a new type of camera which you will want to buy. Either because it is measurably better than your current camera of because the marketing will make you feel that you, by not buying into the new system, are being left behind.
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Bring it on marketeers :D
 
Is the Canon somthing like the Sony A55 DSLT? if so it will have a bit of a running mate there as the Sony takes all the currant lenses so no need for new ones.
 
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