Beginner New lens or more practice?

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Ness

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Hi all. I have had my Nikon d3200 for 2 years. I practised on my kit lens until I figured the basics and after a year bought a 50mm 1.8g lens. I struggled at first to get sharp images away from auto but after almost a year of playing I think I've mostly got the hang of it. I'm confident in taking photos in good lighting. However, my indoor shots are awful. My living room is always dull and photos always come out grainy or dark. Kids birthday photos were a failure. I have it on slow shutter speed, larger aperture, higher iso but have never managed a decent shot in the poor lighting. Is there a lens that will improve this or is there something more I can do (besides artificial light) that would improve my indoor portrait shots? It's my birthday coming up so I can treat myself if I want to, but I don't want to pay out if there is more that can be done with my existing lens.

Thanks!
 
Ness said:
Is there a lens that will improve this or is there something more I can do (besides artificial light) that would improve my indoor portrait shots?
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My best guess is that, changing lens won't help you need to add light. Preferably off-camera flash (don't worry, it doesn't need to be expensive and it's not too complicated to learn).

Bu that's a best guess.. based on zero supplied evidence, honestly - how can anyone answer your "how can I improve my images?" question if you don't provide any examples? We did have Forum Psychic Hat for such circumstances, but it was far too expensive to keep calibrated.. ;)

How about some example shots?
 
Alastair said:
My best guess is that, changing lens won't help you need to add light. Preferably off-camera flash (don't worry, it doesn't need to be expensive and it's not too complicated to learn).

Bu that's a best guess.. based on zero supplied evidence, honestly - how can anyone answer your "how can I improve my images?" question if you don't provide any examples? We did have Forum Psychic Hat for such circumstances, but it was far too expensive to keep calibrated.. ;)

How about some example shots?
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This ^
 
If f1.8 and 1000 ISO isn't giving you a high enough shutter speed to not blur then I'd suggest you bought more powerful bulbs as a first step! :)

Failing that, I'd go for an on-camera flash using the excellent Nikon iTTL and learn how to bounce it off walls/ceiling, but still keep to f1.8 and 1000 ISO too so you can place the DoF clearly on whatever you want to be the main subject and the flash will recharge almost instantly too

It'd take too long to learn OCF properly in time for your birthday, but on-camera you'd be getting better shots within seconds of fitting it

Dave
 
I'd add some shots...but I can't figure out how to log into my flickr account. :/

I didn't use flash at all, I have a bit of a flash phobia (I probably don't know enough about how to use it properly) but I also wouldn't want to use it in situations like a kids party, I would imagine it would be really distracting. Is that the only option then?
 
Ness said:
I would imagine it would be really distracting. Is that the only option then?
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Kids don't care or even notice after a short while IME

Your choices for indoors are

1 - up the ISO until you're happy with the shutter speed and exposure, then sort out with NR, or just accept grain as a feature

2 - add more light so you don't need to do 1

You either add more light by adding more lamps &/or brighter bulbs or you use an additional lighting source such as flash

Dave
 
A couple of things worth bearing in mind..

If you're planning on taking photos, start thinking about this well in advance of a party. Where you place presents will generally determine where they're opened. If it's the darkest part of the room you're making life difficult for yourself. There's nothing wrong with nudging the subject into a better location - with better light and better backgrounds.

Photos don't have to be "sharp" to be interesting. I like this one you've posted and I don't care that it's got some high ISO noise because it's about the expression..

DSC_0883 by Vanessa Jackson, on Flickr

.. I might be tempted to tweak it a smidge with sympathetic processing - which is a personal preference. But wouldn't I beat myself up over it on technical grounds when it's such an emotionally engaging shot. Photographers are terrible judges of their own images ;)

You are getting decent shots, I suspect you're judging yourself against the wrong criteria and you're your own worst audience.. ;)

Keep it up :D
 
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Firstly as others have said with children it's all about the expressions.

Secondly up the ISO to 3200 and then use a NR program - download a trial copy of Neat Image 3, create a set of profiles and then use the program to reduce noise - I use it and properly used it can work wonders.

Thirdly take hundreds of pictures of your kids.

Fourthly use bounced flash or get brighter light bulbs :)
 
Im a beginner too but the first thing i thought was an external flash , you could use the on board one but as it pops up and i dont think it can be angled it would end up with harsh looking portraits.

Are you using auto mode or auto focus?

If your using auto mode try shifting into manual and see how long of an exposure you can take without movement/blurring becoming an issue and what aperture your happy shooting (i think that portraits are usually shot at a low f number/stop ) but to get to a level or sharpness your happy with you might need to stop down a bit.

I have a canon so cant guide you in specifics but if you switch to the M mode on the dial, you should be able to set the shutter speed to reduce blur you want this as short as it can go possibly 1/4000s (the canon you move the wheel i think the nikon this is on the grip at the front.

Then your aperture again on the canon theres a button a/v +- you push this and move the wheel to select your aperture if the 50 mm is f1.8 you should be able to select from 1.8 to 22 in steps (smaller better for portraits)

The faster the shutter speed the less light gets in and the same happens if you close your aperture down each time.

If you choose to change your iso setting as well the lower numbers i.e.100 will produce darker images while larger numbers will boost the light but also the noise


So things you can try before spending anything is try changing the settings incrementally , i'd start at 1/4000s f1.8 and iso 100 (this will no doubt be too dark) but then bring down the shutter speed to 1/2000s and see how much brighter that is compared to your first one. You can raise this up until blur from the child moving would become a problem. If its still too dark bring up the iso setting and again see how it has changed since the previous photo


Hope this makes some sense to you ;) or you know it already d'oh sorry :)
 
Flash guns were invented for poor light situations. Pretty much essential for reliable indoor shots.

A combination of bounce flash off the ceiling (usually white) to fill the room, with a dash of direct light from the camera position works well. Using multiple guns for preference, but a crude but dead easy and often effective way of doing that with one gun is to use a Stofen diffuser cap - cheap clones are only a few quid off Amazon/ebay. Just pop it on and point the flash straight up.

Edit: one drawback of bounce flash is it eats light, so the gun is always working hard and will take a few seconds to recharge. Push the ISO.
 
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Thank you for the suggestions and thank you for your encouraging words Alistair, I appreciate them after feeling miserable that my opportunity for good family photos was a disaster! Others got better shots on their camera phones which is always disheartening.

Stinkypu I'm shooting in manual already, although I still mostly rely on autofocus.

I might have a look at a brighter bulb as a compromise, and will try to be a little more clever with lighting, still feel like a flash would be irritating at a small family party.
 
Ness said:
Stinkypu I'm shooting in manual already, although I still mostly rely on autofocus.
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Tbh, I'd be using Av with auto-ISO and a minimum shutter speed set for these circumstances. Manual exposure can be useful, but you should be concentrating on what's in front of the camera not be distracted by having to juggle ever setting yourself. Manual focus is more useful, but takes practice.

Ness said:
Others got better shots on their camera phones which is always disheartening.
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Judge a photo on the story and emotion, not how sharp/bright it is. And judge it as a print, not on screen. Your photo that I inserted further up the thread could look fantastic printed.

If you want more flexibility in low light, make sure you're shooting raw or raw+jpg. The raw file is more flexible for processing to reduce noise.
 
.
 
Ness said:
Thank you for the suggestions and thank you for your encouraging words Alistair, I appreciate them after feeling miserable that my opportunity for good family photos was a disaster! Others got better shots on their camera phones which is always disheartening.

Stinkypu I'm shooting in manual already, although I still mostly rely on autofocus.

I might have a look at a brighter bulb as a compromise, and will try to be a little more clever with lighting, still feel like a flash would be irritating at a small family party.
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It's not about a brighter bulb, that will likely made bu99er all difference anyway unless it's huge. Even then, brightness will be borderline at best and domestic room lighting is rarely attractive for photography.

Flash is one of the things to elevate your pictures above iPhone standard, when you know how to work with light and get the most from it. The Stofen suggestion is a quick and dirty fix that should (mostly) work okay.
 
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Alastair said:
A couple of things worth bearing in mind..

If you're planning on taking photos, start thinking about this well in advance of a party. Where you place presents will generally determine where they're opened. If it's the darkest part of the room you're making life difficult for yourself. There's nothing wrong with nudging the subject into a better location - with better light and better backgrounds.

Photos don't have to be "sharp" to be interesting. I like this one you've posted and I don't care that it's got some high ISO noise because it's about the expression..

DSC_0883 by Vanessa Jackson, on Flickr

.. I might be tempted to tweak it a smidge with sympathetic processing - which is a personal preference. But wouldn't I beat myself up over it on technical grounds when it's such an emotionally engaging shot. Photographers are terrible judges of their own images ;)

You are getting decent shots, I suspect you're judging yourself against the wrong criteria and you're your own worst audience.. ;)

Keep it up :D
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I really like this, don't be hard on your self. The compostion is good, the little one is in focus with the onlooker blurred out which adds to it. Children move around a lot you did well.
As above maybe invest in a flash to freeze the movement but really your doing well;)
 
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Ness I agree with everyone else, get a flash. Turning on the lights or buying brighter bulbs isn't the same thing - I thought it might help but it really won't. Pictures using natural light from a window will be easier, that's great light, you still need to tame it though, get your angle right so you are not shooting into the window. You are taking good pics, a flash will make them better still. Stop beating yourself up :)
 
Wrong post
 
Honestly, a flash gun will work wonders. This situation is exactly why they were invented! ;)

Just point it up at the ceiling (to get you out of a pinch) and you'll be surprised how much it doesn't look like flash! :)

Good luck!
 
wezza13 said:
Honestly, a flash gun will work wonders. This situation is exactly why they were invented! ;)

Just point it up at the ceiling (to get you out of a pinch) and you'll be surprised how much it doesn't look like flash! :)

Good luck!
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So true
 
Echo what others have said re flash, but you will make a noticeable difference to the image posted there, just by post-processing it (assuming you shot raw too?) - as it just looks under exposed to me, and the white balance off a touch.
 
Alastair said:
A couple of things worth bearing in mind..

If you're planning on taking photos, start thinking about this well in advance of a party. Where you place presents will generally determine where they're opened. If it's the darkest part of the room you're making life difficult for yourself. There's nothing wrong with nudging the subject into a better location - with better light and better backgrounds.

Photos don't have to be "sharp" to be interesting. I like this one you've posted and I don't care that it's got some high ISO noise because it's about the expression..

DSC_0883 by Vanessa Jackson, on Flickr

.. I might be tempted to tweak it a smidge with sympathetic processing - which is a personal preference. But wouldn't I beat myself up over it on technical grounds when it's such an emotionally engaging shot. Photographers are terrible judges of their own images ;)

You are getting decent shots, I suspect you're judging yourself against the wrong criteria and you're your own worst audience.. ;)

Keep it up :D
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Like many others I also like your image and perhaps if you need more brightly lit image more light be it household bulb or flash would get your job done. Myself I do have a certain love for natural light so find the light and expression charming
 
border_all said:
Like many others I also like your image and perhaps if you need more brightly lit image more light be it household bulb or flash would get your job done. Myself I do have a certain love for natural light so find the light and expression charming
Click to expand...

Don't mean to sound harsh, but there is nothing 'natural' about room lighting and it's rarely attractive. In this case, IMHO there's not enough of it and it's in the wrong place.
 
Ness said:
Hi all. I have had my Nikon d3200 for 2 years. I practised on my kit lens until I figured the basics and after a year bought a 50mm 1.8g lens. I struggled at first to get sharp images away from auto but after almost a year of playing I think I've mostly got the hang of it. I'm confident in taking photos in good lighting. However, my indoor shots are awful. My living room is always dull and photos always come out grainy or dark. Kids birthday photos were a failure. I have it on slow shutter speed, larger aperture, higher iso but have never managed a decent shot in the poor lighting. Is there a lens that will improve this or is there something more I can do (besides artificial light) that would improve my indoor portrait shots? It's my birthday coming up so I can treat myself if I want to, but I don't want to pay out if there is more that can be done with my existing lens.

Thanks!
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hi ness, ive got nothing to add except to take notice of what alastair is telling you, by the way mobile phones always take pictures with flash, keep this in mind.
 
apec said:
, by the way mobile phones always take pictures with flash, keep this in mind.
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The flash switches off on my phone ;)

And I've never used 'auto flash on' on any camera whether a compact or DSLR, not that I disapprove of flash, but I know that light should always be considered from a quality rather than quantity viewpoint.

The problem with lots of photographers is that they go straight to the understanding of the technical issues 'lesson one - the exposure triangle' rather than the creative ones, and that's why the world has billions of sharp well exposed s*** pictures.

It's not 'good' just because it's in focus and well exposed, a camera can do that all by itself 90% of the time. A 'good' image is one that people want to look at; oddly a camera can never do that by itself.
 
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