New PC - Integrated Graphics Card?

Loopy

Loopy

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Lynda
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Please excuse me if the questions I'm about to ask are really stupid, but my head is done in with the various PC specs that are available and what I actually need as opposed to want.

I'm looking to buy a new desktop PC but I really don't have the knowledge to build something myself and the range of components available is quite bewildering.

I realise that it's very 'off the shelf' but this is the one I'm being drawn to at the moment http://direct.tesco.com/q/N.1999739/Nr.99.aspx
sorry if the link doesn't work.

Can anyone tell me why this is not a good option?

A couple of other questions...
* What's the difference between a 'shared' graphics card and an 'integrated' one? Is it just terminology? My understanding of an integrated/shared card/chip is that it is hard-wired into the motherboard and uses some of the ram as opposed to a dedicated card that has it's own memory. Does a shared card use up a noticeable amount of ram?
* If I buy a PC with an integrated/shared card, can I install a dedicated one at a later date?
* Can you run two monitors from an integrated card? At the moment I have an ok monitor but also have the option to use two smaller better monitors in tandem, so I'm wanting to explore the split screen thing where you have all the tools on one and the image in another.

Like I say, I probably read too much about what the ideal set up is so get a bit clouded about what I actually need. I think that I'm getting a bit hung up about having to have a dedicated graphics card. The PC won't be used for gaming, just photo editing.

Any pointers would be most appreciated.
Thanks
L

PS - oh, and feel free to laugh and point out any wrong terminology I've used. :)
 
Don't be embarrassed - no one knows everything,

* What's the difference between a 'shared' graphics card and an 'integrated' one? Is it just terminology? My understanding of an integrated/shared card/chip is that it is hard-wired into the motherboard and uses some of the ram as opposed to a dedicated card that has it's own memory. Does a shared card use up a noticeable amount of ram?

Firstly built in graphics cards are correctly described as integrated or on-board the memory they use is described as shared. Tesco's description of this PC is full of misnomers.

* If I buy a PC with an integrated/shared card, can I install a dedicated one at a later date?

Depends on the motherboard, there's no way of knowing from the advertised specs.

* Can you run two monitors from an integrated card? At the moment I have an ok monitor but also have the option to use two smaller better monitors in tandem, so I'm wanting to explore the split screen thing where you have all the tools on one and the image in another.

Depends on the graphics card built in, again there's no way to tell from those specs.

To run two monitors the card needs to have 2 separate outputs, usually DVI and VGA, but more expensive cards allow for 2 DVI's which would be the preferred option.

Also the PC has 3Gb of RAM which would be about a maximum for 32 bit windows, if you're planning to do serious amounts of image editing you should look for 64 bit windows and at least 4Gb of RAM and the option to add more later.

Hope that helps, just bear in mind that Tesco sell PC's for everyman, not specifically fit for a purpose. I wouldn't buy Steak, a PC or a camera from Tesco but my neighbours could do that and get exactly what they need, it's not snobbery it's knowing enough about what I need, to know that Tesco can't sell me one.
 
I'd steer clear of "shared" or intergrated cards. Seperate cards are so cheap now for a decent one, its just makes no sense. For under £50 you could get a 1GB card with dual monitor support, and you can upgrade as and when you like.

If buying new, I wouldnt consider anything but a 64 bit OS with minimum of 4 GB RAM. Computers move so fast, it wont be long before 32 bit is obsolete, so it makes sence to get as far as you can now. And again, over time you can upgrade your RAM to as much as the motherboard supports.

Just be careful, a few months back I started looking for a PC with a budget of £250.
In the end I bought all the components and built it myself.

I ended up spending £850!!!
I thought I might aswell buy the best of everything now, so it lasts a bit longer before I have to upgrade again.
 
Thanks guys, just had a chance to come back to this.
It makes sense but I'll have a better chance of processing it in the morning.
Really appreciate the input.
(y)
 
Phil V said:
.........
Also the PC has 3Gb of RAM which would be about a maximum for 32 bit windows, if you're planning to do serious amounts of image editing you should look for 64 bit windows and at least 4Gb of RAM and the option to add more later.

............
Click to expand...

Perhaps a better read of the link is required!



The Acer X3910 desktop PC is a compact base unit featuring a 2.8GHz Intel® Pentium® Dual-Core E5500 processor, 3GB RAM and a 1TB hard drive. The X3910 includes a dual layer DVD rewriter, integrated Intel® GMA X4500 graphics, a 5.1 sound card and Microsoft Windows® 7 Home Premium 64 bit.



It's been a long time since there were ever any problems adding a graphics card on modern motherboards so don't worry on that score.

Add some extra RAM and this machine sounds fine.
 
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Loopy said:
Please excuse me if the questions I'm about to ask are really stupid, but my head is done in with the various PC specs that are available and what I actually need as opposed to want.

I'm looking to buy a new desktop PC but I really don't have the knowledge to build something myself and the range of components available is quite bewildering.

I realise that it's very 'off the shelf' but this is the one I'm being drawn to at the moment http://direct.tesco.com/q/N.1999739/Nr.99.aspx
sorry if the link doesn't work.

Can anyone tell me why this is not a good option?

A couple of other questions...
* What's the difference between a 'shared' graphics card and an 'integrated' one? Is it just terminology? My understanding of an integrated/shared card/chip is that it is hard-wired into the motherboard and uses some of the ram as opposed to a dedicated card that has it's own memory. Does a shared card use up a noticeable amount of ram?
* If I buy a PC with an integrated/shared card, can I install a dedicated one at a later date?
* Can you run two monitors from an integrated card? At the moment I have an ok monitor but also have the option to use two smaller better monitors in tandem, so I'm wanting to explore the split screen thing where you have all the tools on one and the image in another.

Like I say, I probably read too much about what the ideal set up is so get a bit clouded about what I actually need. I think that I'm getting a bit hung up about having to have a dedicated graphics card. The PC won't be used for gaming, just photo editing.

Any pointers would be most appreciated.
Thanks
L

PS - oh, and feel free to laugh and point out any wrong terminology I've used. :)
Click to expand...


Most, but not all off the shelf PC's will have a spare PCI-E slot to upgrade the graphics at a later date.

Integrated graphics are built into the motherboard and share the main system memory. In the past they used to be generally slow but now offer reasonable performance, unless you are a gamer. You can often configure how much ram you want the integrated graphics to use.

Integrated graphics cards usually have just a single DVI or VGA connector. You can get adaptors to convert VGA to DVI and vice versa.

Dedicated cards have their own memory, so won't steal ram. These offer much better performance and usually have more ports,eg DVI,VGA,HDMI or dual DVI.

£50 can get you this - http://www.ebuyer.com/product/190752 - dual DVI and 1GB.

Even a 256mb card with dual DVI will do the job, unless you want to play the very latest games.
 
I thought that chosing Win 7 64bit might throw up some software issues and you will end up needing Premium as that can run an XP emulator.

Probably only top end Video Editing software currently must have a 64 bit OS (and an Intel Processor not AMD) over 32 bit, so is there really any need to have it if you aren't using it? - ok upgrade in the future when it will actually be used?
 
First of all, thank you very much everyone who has replied. I certainly have a better understanding of cards now. I'm assuming that they are quite easy to install?

The reason I was looking at purchasing a new computer is that I had been told that it wasn't worth upgrading one of our current desktops. However, reading your replies and considering them with the opinions of some people my hubby has been asking, is an upgrade the better option?

I've got the specs of the 3 computers using Belarc advisor so please let me know if there is any other information required to offer advice.
We need to have two useful PCs from the 3 specs but it is a bit bewildering trying to figure out what needs to be upgraded and what can be moved about. e.g. Can the processor from PC3 be put into PC1 and can anything be done about the size of the cache. Can the memory be upgraded in PC1. Can the hard drive storage be utilised in PC1? So, can PC1 and 3 can be combined with a little upgrading? Can you tell I haven't a clue:shrug:

I'm really sorry if it seems like I'm giving you the runaround

All running Windows XP

PC 1 spec
Processor
1.87 gigahertz Intel Core 2 Duo
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
2048 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (2 total)
Not hyper-threaded
Main Circuit Board
Board: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO., LTD MS-7255
Bus Clock: 266 megahertz
BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG 09/19/2006
Drives
1314.30 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity (This is how it showed on the download??)
1192.49 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space
HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GSA-H20N [Optical drive]
Generic Flash HS-CF USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 1
Generic Flash HS-MS/SD USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 2
Generic Flash HS-SM USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 3
ST3320820AS [Hard drive] (320.07 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 5QF0VNV3, rev 3.AAC, SMART Status: Healthy
WD 10EAVS External USB Device [Hard drive] (1000.20 GB) -- drive 4
Memory Modules
1024 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory
Slot 'A0' has 512 MB
Slot 'A1' has 512 MB
Local Drive Volumes
c: (NTFS on drive 0) 314.34 GB 271.89 GB free
g: (FAT32 on drive 4) 999.96 GB 920.60 GB free

PC2 spec
Processor
2.60 gigahertz AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core
128 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (2 total)
Not hyper-threaded
Main Circuit Board
Board: 0A7C
Bus Clock: 199 megahertz
BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD MS7297 1.08 08/22/2007
Drives
160.02 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
137.51 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space
HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GSA-H60L [Optical drive]
Generic- Compact Flash USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 1
Generic- MS/MS-Pro USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 4
Generic- SD/MMC USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 3
Generic- SM/xD-Picture USB Device [Hard drive] -- drive 2
ST3160815AS [Hard drive] (160.04 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 6RX2LT6H, rev 3.CHF, SMART Status: Healthy
Memory Modules
1920 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory
Slot 'A0' has 1024 MB
Slot 'A1' has 1024 MB
Local Drive Volumes
c: (NTFS on drive 0) 149.28 GB 128.68 GB free
d: (NTFS on drive 0) 10.74 GB 8.83 GB free

PC 3 spec
Processor
3.20 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
16 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Hyper-threaded (2 total)
Main Circuit Board
Board: MSI 0A48
Bus Clock: 200 megahertz
BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD MS7254 1.04 07/14/2006
Drives
160.03 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
147.84 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space
HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH22NP20 [CD-ROM drive]
Maxtor 6V160E0 [Hard drive] (160.04 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 3356383941344732202020202020202020202020, SMART Status: Healthy
Memory Modules
448 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory
Slot 'A0' has 512 MB
Slot 'A1' is Empty
Local Drive Volumes
c: (NTFS on drive 0)
160.03 GB
147.84 GB free
 
Well, I have a few days holiday coming up so I don't mind spending some time if I'm going to learn how to do something. (Is it easy to screw up?)

Budget wise, I don't want to spend more than a new PC, in fact I'd like to spend less than a new PC so let's say £300 to set a figure.

I have no idea how much components cost so if this is completely unrealistic, sorry. I also realise that this is like asking, how long is a piece of string.

To remove some of the equation, ignore the spec for PC2 as hubby is quite happy to use this. Can anything be salvaged from the other two specs?

Thanks
 
Well, if it was me, I would salvage all the drives from PC's1 and 3 and bin the rest.

Utilise some of the drives into PC2, then build a new PC.

However, you ain't me so get down to Tesco's in the morning!
 
Spec 3 would beneift hugely from more RAM, its only got 512mb, which is nothing really. You want at least 3GB in there, but above 3GB on a 32 bit OS is wasted. You could do with a bigger hard disk in time too, bigger the better really. Other than that its not too bad.

Spec 1, again more RAM is needed, and you could potentially change the processor for a slightly better one. All that could be done for well under your budget.

In fact I have a spare processor and 3GB RAM sat here that I keep menaing to sell.

The best bet would be to upgrade 3's RAM, and stick 1's Hard drives in there too.
 
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questions please.

Looking at the specs, to my very inexperienced eye , PC3 has quite a good processor, but the cache is really poor, compared to PC1 which looks like it has a slower processor but more cache. By adding more ram memory will the cache improve.

Also, PC3 has an empty slot. Can I take 512 from PC1 and 'pop' in into PC3 to see if this speeds thing up before forking out on new memory.

And, can I take the 320GB hard drive from PC1 and put it in PC3.


Re storage, I have a TB external drive so at the moment things are backed up there.
 
Ozei said:
According to the Acer website the X3910's motherboard has two spare PCI Express slots - in which case adding a graphics card would be easy. RAM can be upgraded from 4GB to 8GB.

http://us.acer.com/acer/product.do;...ond189e.c2att1=25&ctx1.att21k=1&CRC=631963138
Click to expand...


Be careful you are pointing to the US website here, also specs on vendor websites usually tell you what can be configured, what appears on reseller shelves does not always have everything it can have as a range of models are configured to meet various budgets and spec requirements. Always ask the supplier for the exact specs of the model they are offering to avaoid disappointment.:)
 
You cant change the cache without changing the processor, but by adding more RAM you will give more headroom for the computer to process information. As its stands PC 3 has way to little RAM.

Thing is a computer will fail at its weakest point, which once you have upped the RAM will be the Cache on the processor. I doubt it will cause huge problems, but you may get some bottlenecking on intensive processes.
 
Thanks. In a moment of impulsiveness we've taken 1 & 3 to bits. Watch this space.
 
ok, tried the simple thing of putting an extra 512 ram into PC3. Seemed fine, but went to install elements to test speed and DVD player isn't working, d'oh!

So now I'm looking at PC1 and thinking, change the processor for a better one and upgrade the memory. there are only two slots so would I get 2 x 1024 cards or 2 x 2G. Am I right in thinking that they have to be a matching pair (i.e. you can't put a 1G and a 2G together)

What you got for sale TCR if I'm not being too bold? (Am I allowed to ask?)
 
You can put 1x2GB and 1x1GB, but they should ideally be of the same brand and type to avoid conflict issues. Also your motherboard may only support certain types and upto a certian amount.
I have the following.

3.4GHz PENTIUM , SOCKET 775 DUAL-CORE CPU, with ZALMAN CPNS 9500 FLOWER COOLER.

and

1x2GB STICK OF CRUCIAL BALLISTIX TRACER (RED) AND 1x1GB STICK OF CRUCIAL BALLISTIX TRACER (MULTI).

Taken out of my PC last month when I upgraded to an i5 processor, new Motherboard etc etc.
 
TCR4x4 said:
.... Also your motherboard may only support certain types and upto a certian amount.
Click to expand...

hmmm, so how do I know if the board will support the memory?

Is it an easy thing to change the CPU and fan?
 
Loopy said:
ok, tried the simple thing of putting an extra 512 ram into PC3. Seemed fine, but went to install elements to test speed and DVD player isn't working, d'oh!
Click to expand...

DVD not working is likely to be power or signal cable not connected properly to the drive. Or the signal cable is on the wrong pins/connector on the motherboard.

Loopy said:
So now I'm looking at PC1 and thinking, change the processor for a better one and upgrade the memory. there are only two slots so would I get 2 x 1024 cards or 2 x 2G. Am I right in thinking that they have to be a matching pair (i.e. you can't put a 1G and a 2G together)
Click to expand...

The manual for PC1's motherboard (MS-7255) is available here. http://www.retrevo.com/search/v2/jsp/mytrevo/myTrevo.jsp?page=man. This board has to have a Socket 775 processor - to upgrade to a decent one (e.g. 2.93GHz) would cost around £95 on its own (e.g. http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Comp...(1066FSB)+Processor+-+Retail+?productId=34749) - so you're 1/3 way to blowing the budget already.

The MS-7255's maximum supported memory is 2GB - so there's no point in putting in 4GB (two x 2GB sticks). IMO this defeats the object of even thinking about an upgrade on PC1.


Edit: quick board spec here http://www.directron.com/p4m890ml.html or here (depending on what the number is on the VIA chipset) http://reviews.cnet.com/motherboards/msi-p4m900m-l-motherboard/1707-3049_7-32335970.html.
 
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You are more than welcome to pay for the postage of the processor and the 2GB stick, try it out. If you want to keep it, then say £100, if not just post it back to me.

Its relitively simple to change the processor, just undo the screws on the fan, pull it off, undo the clip on the processor and take it out. When putting the new processor in you will need to put some thermal paste on the top where the fan/heatsink sits on top of it.
 
Thank you all. If you don't mind I'll get back tomorrow evening. Too late to think at the moment.
I do appreciate the advice
 
Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply. We're swapping the memory from PC2 between 1 and 2 and seeing what difference it makes, but I have to use it for a couple of days to see if I notice a difference.
 
Hi
Just thought I'd join in, I have been building PC's for over 10 yrs. To be honest anyone can build one, the question I always ask is what do you want to do with it and your peripherals should be purchased accordingly.
I use ebay a lot as there are some good bargains. recently I bought a used quad core and board with 2gig of ddr3.......it could be more powerful with a few bits and pieces, but will do what I want at present.
A 1gig graphics card isn't always a better option than a 500mb card.
If building, read up on the individual components before buying and it's a game of patience.

When removing the CPU, be careful not to bend any pins and always wipe the old paste off and replace out of a new or sealed tube. (only put a small amount in the middle of the chip, or it will go all over).

I hope I have helped a bit in the information gathering process.....and will try and answer any questions anyone may have.

Best Wishes
Andy
 
Hi andymn, thanks for the reply.

Just another quick question while I'm comparing the various computer specs for speed. Again, I'm trying to establish whether I just want more than is possible from an old upgraded computer.

Would people mind giving me an idea of how long is a reasonable time to copy 7gig of photos from a memory card to the had drive. It's currently taking me about an hour and a half. This seems very slow to me, but then I don't know if that's just me being impatient. Card is a Kingston 133x CF.

Thanks again for your help
 
Just to update and finalise the thread.
Thank you everyone for all the input.

Eventually, we decided on the new PC route. Tesco had a Dell PC with a dedicated graphics card so rang them to ask if it would support two monitors, their technical helpline redirected me through to Dell, who offered me a much better spec machine for not much more money. So now I'm waiting impatiently for it to be delivered. Anyway, I know that some of you could have built a better model for the same money, but this is me.
So the basic spec is Intel i3 processor, 6g ram, 1TB storage, 1g graphics card.
Should see me okay for a couple of years or so.
Thanks again for all the comments.
(y)
 
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