New Studio Lighting Setup Help

[JohnClark]

Hi all,

New to this forum so hopefully I'm posting in the right place, and I'm ok to post!!

I'm an intermediate photography with a little studio experience. At the company I work for, we have just moved from our old warehouse, which had our "pop up" studio so to speak, with a pull down backdrop, and a few flash lights - this did what we needed so to speak.

However, we have just moved to a new warehouse which we now have a purpose built photography studio. (see photo below)

I'm looking for some help/advice on fashion photography lighting. The majority of photographs are clothing shots on a model.

We have 3 Bowens BW-3910 flash heads, 2 with umbrellas and 1 with a soft box then we have 2 Interift F5 fluorescent lights.

Previously we would just use the 2 umbrellas flashes, one at each side (as in the photo) and this worked... However, since we are trying to do things "properlly" so to speak in our new studio, it would be great to hear some advice from anyone!!

Look forward to hearing back from anyone with any help/advice.

Thanks

View media item 13021

 

[Deleted member 49428]

If what youre used to works and gives the results you want why change it.
Right, properly, best etc. is what gives you what youre after so the question is rather which approaches will lead me to these effects, results and/or solve these problems
Best regards

 

[Garry Edwards]

Welcome to the forum.
That lighting setup is capable of producing mediocre catalogue style shoots, but not fashion.

We can advise you much better if we know more, so it would be helpful if you provide examples of your products as currently photographed, and perhaps links to photos that you would like your products to look like.

For example, if you're selling vast quantities on Amazon, your needs will be very different to if you're selling high quality products to a discerning market.

 

[JohnClark]

Welcome to the forum.
That lighting setup is capable of producing mediocre catalogue style shoots, but not fashion.

We can advise you much better if we know more, so it would be helpful if you provide examples of your products as currently photographed, and perhaps links to photos that you would like your products to look like.

For example, if you're selling vast quantities on Amazon, your needs will be very different to if you're selling high quality products to a discerning market.

Thanks for the reply Garry! I'm unable to post links just yet , however you can find our website if you search Tilletts Clothing on Google.

The shots we have at the moment, as you will see if you have a chance to take a look, a very... consistent shall I say.

We essentially take two kinds of photo in the studio, the first is a "catalogue shot" as I guess it should be called which are the product photos used across our website.

The others are more "fashion" style shots for use in promotional artwork.

At the moment the biggest issue we have using just the two umbrella flashes where they are currently placed in the photo above, is balancing the lighting from the model against the clothes - we often end up with shiny faces, although we do what we can in Photoshop with this. Then also maintaining a pure white background against the model, which I think the new studio alone will help with.

I've read a lot that we should possibly use one "main light", such as the lightbox, with then the flashes more lighting behind the model.

Hope this makes sense and gives you some more information and background to give us some advice.

In advance, really appreciated.

 

[mike weeks]

This ? https://www.tillettsclothing.co.uk/

 

[Garry Edwards]

OK - I've looked at the website, I think you've done pretty well so far considering what you've been working with, but there's a lot of room for improvement..

Catalogue shots
These are intended primarily to show what the product looks like, and needs to include a lot more visual info than you're providing at the moment with just 2 photos. I would, almost as an aside, include far more photos from the front, 3/4, side, back, and closeup detail.
Lighting wise, forget about your continuous lighting, it isn't usable.
What you clearly need, as a starting point, is a pure white background, and what you can't do, on economic grounds, is to waste a lot of time in Photoshop, so you need to start by lighting the background.
Use the two flash heads with umbrellas for this, set one each side, each at 45 degrees to the background. The received power needs to be identical on each, and needs to be a bit brighter than the lighting on the subject, say 0.7 - 1 stop brighter.
Get your model well away from the background, the further the better but a minimum of about 3m, and use your flash head with a softbox to light her. You haven't said anything about your softbox but, within reason, the bigger the better and I suggest something like this one, which is ideal because the light from it is very controlled and it's bigger than your model, so can produce very soft lighting when required. https://www.lencarta.com/30x200cm-stripbox-profold-folding-strip-softbox
This will typically be placed at one side of your model, and a bit in front. It will create light, but will also create the essential shadows too, in the right places.
Ideally, a 4th flash, with another softbox, should be bought to produce fill light, because it will make your life easier - but if budget is an issue then a good workaround will be a large reflector like this one https://www.lencarta.com/110x170cm-redline-pro-handheld-collapsible-reflector and you will also need a holder for it https://www.lencarta.com/reflector-diffuser-panel-clip-holder-boom-arm and a suitable light stand https://www.lencarta.com/redline-pro-pneumatic-air-damped-light-stand

Promotional shots
These are the shots that create the 'want' in your customers, which means that the shots often need to include drama, and when there is something special about the fabric, then the shots need to show these qualities too.
It's virtually the same equipment and with a similar approach, but you will need to add a honeycomb grid for the softbox https://www.lencarta.com/30x200-stripbox-egg-crate-strip-softbox-honeycomb-grid and also a very fine honeycomb grid for your standard reflector https://www.lencarta.com/standard-reflector-10-degree-universal-honeycomb-grid. These will allow you to produce backlighting, and also to reveal texture and fine detail in a dramatic way.

I would add, fashion isn't the easiest genre and you'll find that there's a pretty sharp learning curve

I've linked to Lencarta products because I used to work with Lencarta and know the products, similar products are of course available elsewhere.

 

[HoppyUK]

Welcome to TP

It looks like Garry is steering you in the right direction, but I wondered if you have problems with sales returns when colours don't exactly match the on-screen images? If so, it can be quite a complicated issue with lots of elements contributing and needing to be controlled, but if you're kitting out a new studio, now is a good time to get all your ducks in a row.

You can only do so much though, as what the customer sees also relies on their computer screen being accurate, but at least you'll know you've done all you can.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Welcome to TP

It looks like Garry is steering you in the right direction, but I wondered if you have problems with sales returns when colours don't exactly match the on-screen images? If so, it can be quite a complicated issue with lots of elements contributing and needing to be controlled, but if you're kitting out a new studio, now is a good time to get all your ducks in a row.

You can only do so much though, as what the customer sees also relies on their computer screen being accurate, but at least you'll know you've done all you can.

Good point, getting the colours right (or at least OK) is also essential, but it's easily done to a reasonable standard, and of course every website page needs to carry a disclaimer, reminding people that their computer monitor may not display colours accurately.

And there are a lot of other things to learn too, as I said, it's going to be a pretty sharp learning curve.
A very quick look at the website shows a lot of room for improvement in the boot photography, these need to be photographed at the right height and from the right angles, and the lighting needs to be very carefully controlled too, with different lighting for different shapes and different textures - and they need to be well stuffed too. I did an article on photographing boots and shoes and things... https://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting-blog/shooting-the-shoe/#.Vjx2WCsl-hE as well as quite a few on fashion. Oh yes, and bags need to be stuffed too.

But, although the OP is going to have to learn the principles of lighting, at least he's shooting with live models - so many small firms seem to think that it's OK to 'model' clothes on mannequins, which are the worst possible selling tool.

 

[sk66]

It looks like you've built yourself a cove about 4m wide and 2m deep, is that about right?

 

[Canon brook]

OK - I've looked at the website, I think you've done pretty well so far considering what you've been working with, but there's a lot of room for improvement..

Catalogue shots
These are intended primarily to show what the product looks like, and needs to include a lot more visual info than you're providing at the moment with just 2 photos. I would, almost as an aside, include far more photos from the front, 3/4, side, back, and closeup detail.
Lighting wise, forget about your continuous lighting, it isn't usable.
What you clearly need, as a starting point, is a pure white background, and what you can't do, on economic grounds, is to waste a lot of time in Photoshop, so you need to start by lighting the background.
Use the two flash heads with umbrellas for this, set one each side, each at 45 degrees to the background. The received power needs to be identical on each, and needs to be a bit brighter than the lighting on the subject, say 0.7 - 1 stop brighter.
Get your model well away from the background, the further the better but a minimum of about 3m, and use your flash head with a softbox to light her. You haven't said anything about your softbox but, within reason, the bigger the better and I suggest something like this one, which is ideal because the light from it is very controlled and it's bigger than your model, so can produce very soft lighting when required. https://www.lencarta.com/30x200cm-stripbox-profold-folding-strip-softbox
This will typically be placed at one side of your model, and a bit in front. It will create light, but will also create the essential shadows too, in the right places.
Ideally, a 4th flash, with another softbox, should be bought to produce fill light, because it will make your life easier - but if budget is an issue then a good workaround will be a large reflector like this one https://www.lencarta.com/110x170cm-redline-pro-handheld-collapsible-reflector and you will also need a holder for it https://www.lencarta.com/reflector-diffuser-panel-clip-holder-boom-arm and a suitable light stand https://www.lencarta.com/redline-pro-pneumatic-air-damped-light-stand

Promotional shots
These are the shots that create the 'want' in your customers, which means that the shots often need to include drama, and when there is something special about the fabric, then the shots need to show these qualities too.
It's virtually the same equipment and with a similar approach, but you will need to add a honeycomb grid for the softbox https://www.lencarta.com/30x200-stripbox-egg-crate-strip-softbox-honeycomb-grid and also a very fine honeycomb grid for your standard reflector https://www.lencarta.com/standard-reflector-10-degree-universal-honeycomb-grid. These will allow you to produce backlighting, and also to reveal texture and fine detail in a dramatic way.

I would add, fashion isn't the easiest genre and you'll find that there's a pretty sharp learning curve

I've linked to Lencarta products because I used to work with Lencarta and know the products, similar products are of course available elsewhere.

Hi Garry...really comprehensive reply... can I ask where you would position the reflector ......or if using a fourth light for fill....would it have a grid and roughly where would you place it?

In terms of power would a combination of say an ad200 and 3x 580exll be enough for this set up or would you need more....?

Thanks in anticipation.......

 

[JohnClark]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the quick responses and the detail.

@Garry Edwards - I'll certainly be playing around with the suggestions you have made today. Very comprehensive thanks for the details.

@sk66 - The studio is probably about 5m x 4m. It has a curved flush finish on the right and back side which makes the depth a little difficult to gauge from the photo.

Many thanks

 

[Garry Edwards]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the quick responses and the detail.

@Garry Edwards - I'll certainly be playing around with the suggestions you have made today. Very comprehensive thanks for the details.

@sk66 - The studio is probably about 5m x 4m. It has a curved flush finish on the right and back side which makes the depth a little difficult to gauge from the photo.

Many thanks

Don't hesitate to come back with questions once you've got the basic setup/equipment sorted out - moving from where you are now to where you need to be is going to throw up some queries.

Hi Garry...really comprehensive reply... can I ask where you would position the reflector ......or if using a fourth light for fill....would it have a grid and roughly where would you place it?

In terms of power would a combination of say an ad200 and 3x 580exll be enough for this set up or would you need more....?

Thanks in anticipation.......

The short answer to placement can only be "wherever it needs to be" - which isn't helpful, but it's what it is. Technically, a 'fill' light should light all parts of the subject seen by the lens, which means that it cannot be a conflicting light, i.e. it cannot come from a completely different direction to the key light and create the effect of a second sun, but this 'rule' slips away a bit with product photography, where the objective may be to create the right shadows in the right places but to not leave any part of the subject totally unlit, if that makes sense.

It isn't about power, so the AD200 would be fine as far as power is concerned, the 580's would probably have enough too, although the problem with those is that they have a built in reflector. However, not having powerful modelling lamps for this type of shoot is a real hindrance, and so is slow recycling.

 

[sk66]

The studio is probably about 5m x 4m. It has a curved flush finish on the right and back side which makes the depth a little difficult to gauge from the photo.

Ok, so a smallish infinity cove...
The main issue I see is that your modifiers are very "generic" and they will give you generic results. The interfit kit might be "ok" for smaller product stuff, but otherwise it's not worth owning IMO. If adding a 4th light I would spend the money on a basic 300ws strobe w/ modeling light and a good quality boom stand. You should be able to get that for around the price of an AD200... I don't see any point to ditching the Bowens in favor of a small battery power system here.

No one can suggest a lighting setup w/o a specific product/situation/goal. But you are going to want a variety of hard and soft modifiers. For "hard" the stock reflectors outfitted with honeycombs (around 10*) would be a good start. A large (~60cm) silver beauty dish w/ honeycomb would also be nice. For "soft" the large strip box Gary recommended would be very useful, and a large softbox/octabox is essential IMO (4ft min), both with removable grids.

For your general "model shots" and with 4 lights I would use 2 of the 500ws w/ the umbrellas on the BG. I would then probably use a BD from above/frontal (300ws), and a large softbox or stripbox (500ws) from the side (roughly 45* for both)... but this is really just a first guess/instinct. It would likely change depending on the specific situation, perhaps significantly. Place the model at the front edge of the cove...
I would also suggest a bellows type lens hood to eliminate veiling flare, they can be picked up for about $50 in good shape used. I made a 3:2 mask for mine, but I'll also tape black card over the opening to restrict it farther if necessary. It's not a necessity, but IMO it's a lot easier and more convenient to use than flags/stands/etc.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Ok, so a smallish infinity cove...
The main issue I see is that your modifiers are very "generic" and they will give you generic results. The interfit kit might be "ok" for smaller product stuff, but otherwise it's not worth owning IMO. If adding a 4th light I would spend the money on a basic 300ws strobe w/ modeling light and a good quality boom stand. You should be able to get that for around the price of an AD200... I don't see any point to ditching the Bowens in favor of a small battery power system here.
.

Agreed

No one can suggest a lighting setup w/o a specific product/situation/goal. But you are going to want a variety of hard and soft modifiers. For "hard" the stock reflectors outfitted with honeycombs (around 10*) would be a good start.

Sort of, but it then gets complicated, and there's no point in John trying to run before he can walk. And, IMO the modfiersI have already suggested will do pretty much everything.

strip box Gary recommended

And whilst I'm having a go at you ... I sort of forgive you because you're American, but it's Garry not Gary. When I worked in the States hardly anyone could pronounce my name, let alone spell it. I used to explain that the pronounciation is Garry as in marry, not Gary as in Mary. When you post on a British forum, you should spell the name Garry the Welsh way. Oh yes, whilst I'm at it, Wales in a country near England, it isn't Wales, England

 

[sk66]

Sort of, but it then gets complicated, and there's no point in John trying to run before he can walk. And, IMO the modfiersI have already suggested will do pretty much everything.

I was trying to give a basic "hard light contour, soft light fill" scenario as a starting point. But reading back through you already had (essentially). I think the only thing different is I added a BD... and specified a medium-large softbox/octa for the 4th strobe (leaving out the reflector/stand altertnative).

I used to explain that the pronounciation is Garry as in marry, not Gary as in Mary.

I would pronounce those the same!
But I do usually make a conscious effort to spell it correctly... sorry I missed it this time.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Steven, I'm making a real mess on this forum today....
I did in fact write about your suggestion about a beauty dish, but must have messed that bit up because it didn't appear..
What I said, in essence, was that although you are perfectly correct in suggesting a beauty dish, I don't think it's right for John, and there are various reasons for this.
1. A beauty dish, used correctly, creates very sexy lighting on suitable female faces, but it's a very precise lighting tool that has to be at the right angle, the right height and the right distance.
2. Typically, with fashion photography, we ask the model to dance on the spot, her body moves around with each shot but the face stays the same, so that at least some of the shots will work with the beauty dish. This requires a good pro model, which we don't have here.
3. John needs to get up to speed with simple lighting techniques, and adding a 4th light here would make life much more difficult and dramatically increase the failure rate - which doesn't mean of course that he shouldn't consider it at some future point. I'm all for sexy lighting for selling clothes, I just think that this may be a step too far too soon.

He is at least using a human to model the clothes, so many people think it's OK to use a mannequin. The thing is, potential buyers tend to relate to the model, e.g. if it looks good on her then they think it will look just as good on them, and nobody wants to relate to a lump of plastic.
And when their partners buy for them, they can't relate to a mannequin either, because nobody wants to shag a lump of plastic
[QUOTE="sk66, post: 8058672, member: 62098"

I would pronounce those the same!
But I do usually make a conscious effort to spell it correctly... sorry I missed it this time.[/QUOTE]
Ignore me, I've had email after email today miss-spelling my name...
Possibly the worst example of Americanism I've come across was when I was introduced as guest speaker at a do in NYC "And now I introduce our keynote speaker, Mr Gery Edwards from Wales in England, who is an outstanding lighting professor"
Professor? I'm not even qualified to teach an evening class