New to film - help?

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I'm very tempted to have a play about with some film photography. I was tempted to go for a fixed lomo fisheye camera and play about with that but I think I might want to get something with a bit more manual control... maybe an old canon body? This may be a very stupid question but are the digital canon lenses different from the film ones :help:? I was hoping to get an old camera and lens for reasonably cheap and was hoping to play about with a fisheye...
 
Well - there are film bodies that are compatible with modern EF lenses. They won't work with the EF-S lenses such as the 18-55 kit lens though. Canon decided that as the EF-S lenses only cast an image circle large enough to cover a 1.6x cropped sensor, that it would be silly to mount a EF-S lens on a full frame camera. As a EOS film camera is by definition a Full-Frame camera, you are restricted to EF mount lenses. Some of the lens manufacturers make lenses with a EF mount fitment on the back of the lens, but which only cast a digital size image circle (for example Sigma's DC range of lenses) These will mount to the camera, but MAY interfere with the movement of the mirror, and to be honest I'd avoid them, just to be sure.

There are plenty of half decent EOS film cameras out there - one that is a good match to your 450D is the EOS-30 - it's about the same size and weight as the 450D's body, has a similar focusing points setup, and ii one of the last film bodies canon made, so a decent example has a good chance of not having "been around the block" as much. As to getting EF mount lenses cheap - good luck! - you're up against all the digital AND film people, which is probably why old EF lenses hold their value.

Now, as to a fisheye lens.... well - they're not cheap, at least for what is after all a "one trick pony" lens, though i've noticed a EF 15mm 2.8 Fisheye lens being sold on ebay, by Kerso, who also sells directly to members on here, usually for a bit less than the ebay BIN price. I've personally bought a number of items from Ian, and he's a great guy to deal with. The lenses are covered by Canon's international warranty, and with the UK sales reciept, if anything goes wrong, you've as much cover as you would by buying from Jessops for example.
 
I say you want to be going older - getting a camera that will use your current lenses is all very well however you don't have the best setup for learning manual then.

There are some excellent old SLR's kicking about for next to no money that would work perfectly. Fisheye lenses can be had, but they are always fairly expensive.
 
I say you want to be going older - getting a camera that will use your current lenses is all very well however you don't have the best setup for learning manual then.

There are some excellent old SLR's kicking about for next to no money that would work perfectly. Fisheye lenses can be had, but they are always fairly expensive.

"However you don't have the best setup for learning manual then."

How do you mean? Any suggestions :)?
 
"However you don't have the best setup for learning manual then."

How do you mean? Any suggestions :)?

When you have a camera that still has all the automatic options, much the same as your DSLR, you will invariably use them when you want to be in your comfort zone.

Something such as an Olympus OM10 (If you want an SLR) or even a medium format TLR will take away most of the automatic stuff you find comfortable. As soon as you step outside your comfort zone the learning really begins.

I am going through the back to film journey myself at the moment. I was going to use my EOS33 body but it just felt too much like using a DSLR. I wouldn't have gained anything from it. Instead I purchased a medium format TLR with no meter, no AF/AE. Alongside that I picked up a Weston Master V light meter. I know with this combination I'm going to have to work a lot harder to get good shots - but learn a lot more in the process.

Hope that explains my reasoning.
 
I'm thinking of getting a Canon T70 or a T90 (both released before I was born :eek:). Do you reckon I'd get a good film experience out of one of these :)?
 
Of course you will - put some film in there, and get out shooting. Just because you're shooting film doesn't mean you need to wear a hair shirt, and only ever take shots in everything manual mode. Okay, I learned to use a camera with a fully manual camera, but it doesn't mean I shoot everything in manual - I shoot in the appropriate mode - if it's appropriate, I'll shoot everything manual - if it's appropriate to shoot in AV or T modes on a canon camera, I'll use those, with the appropriate over-rides or compensations set. I've even been known to use full program mode when it was appropriate - i.e. using on camera flash at a family party when I was on my second bottle of red :)

Thinking with my head, I reckon that the T90 is probably one of the most sensible Manual Focus film cameras out there - to all intents and purposes it's a EOS body that you can mount FD lenses to. I have to admit though, that when it comes to film, I don't particularly pick cameras with my head - I love the look and feel of the older FD bodies, despite their propensity to coughing fits. I've also got a couple of nice, EF lens compatible bodies, for when I want a camera to "just work" and be seamlessly interchangeable with my modern digital kit. If that puts me out of step with the rest of the filmies, so be it :shrug:
 
I'm thinking of getting a Canon T70 or a T90 (both released before I was born :eek:). Do you reckon I'd get a good film experience out of one of these :)?

The T70 is the best bang for buck going and I have two with the T90:-

Advantages not usually considered:-
They are cheap.
No one is going to nick it as it's ugly.
If it does get nicked you wont cry over something bought for peanuts, and if you drop it, same thing.
No chasing around for unusual batteries as it takes 2XAA.
Poor man's fast continuous winder at about 2 frames/sec.
VG foolproof safety shift if you get the exposure wrong.
Screw lenses e.g. Pentax can be used with a cheap adapter in stop down mode and you have the T70 sophisticated exposure when using M42 lenses.

more professional info on:-
http://www.mir.SPAM/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/SLRs/t70/index.htm

I've noticed the T90 is going up in price, but their are bargain to be had if you get one with a sticky shutter and get it working
 
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As an owner of both the T70 and the T90 can you tell me the main functional differences between the two? Is it just that the T90 has spot metering and AV mode? Do either have DOF preview?

...I can't make up my mind if any of this matters as I don't use DOF preview or spot metering on my digital SLR ever and don't shoot AV often at all, I pretty much always shoot manual.
 
As an owner of both the T70 and the T90 can you tell me the main functional differences between the two? Is it just that the T90 has spot metering and AV mode? Do either have DOF preview?

...I can't make up my mind if any of this matters as I don't use DOF preview or spot metering on my digital SLR ever and don't shoot AV often at all, I pretty much always shoot manual.


Well the T90 was for advanced amateurs or pros, and it depends on how interested you are using film and do you want to spend up to £100 with matching 300TL flashgun....not worried about money? Then get the T90, if you are more interested in taking photos than playing with umpteen controls on the camera and flash, then get the T70.

For me I use the T70 most as it usually goes in my back pack (home or abroad) as I don't want to worry about sandy beaches, rocks, kids or scratches etc. The T90 I use mainly at home with the flashgun 300TL for group photos and will take it abroad for weddings and similar esp when you want to balance ambient light with flash.

Have fun reading the advanced features of the Flash gun 300TL (I assume you have already looked up the T90). :eek:
http://www.mir.SPAM/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canont90/Canon300tlflash/index.htm
 
As an owner of both the T70 and the T90 can you tell me the main functional differences between the two? Is it just that the T90 has spot metering and AV mode? Do either have DOF preview?

...I can't make up my mind if any of this matters as I don't use DOF preview or spot metering on my digital SLR ever and don't shoot AV often at all, I pretty much always shoot manual.

Well, with a film slr, DOF preview is needed a bit more, after all with a digital you just shoot and chimp the shot. With the film camera, it's nice to be able to review things "in camera" rather than just hope for the best. It does help that the film camera's viewfinder is probably a lot larger and brighter than the digital's (usually a proper pentaprism rather than the pentamirror arrangement in (say) the 450D. Being larger and brighter from the outset, you do stand some chance of being able to review the DOF "in finder" whereas with the 450D in my experience everything pretty much just went dark.
 
Well the T90 was for advanced amateurs or pros, and it depends on how interested you are using film and do you want to spend up to £100 with matching 300TL flashgun....not worried about money? Then get the T90, if you are more interested in taking photos than playing with umpteen controls on the camera and flash, then get the T70.

For me I use the T70 most as it usually goes in my back pack (home or abroad) as I don't want to worry about sandy beaches, rocks, kids or scratches etc. The T90 I use mainly at home with the flashgun 300TL for group photos and will take it abroad for weddings and similar esp when you want to balance ambient light with flash.

Have fun reading the advanced features of the Flash gun 300TL (I assume you have already looked up the T90). :eek:
http://www.mir.SPAM/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canont90/Canon300tlflash/index.htm

Hmm, not that bothered about settings I guess and I'm not that sure about flash either! I use flash quite a bit with my digital SLR but was mostly hoping to use the film camera for outdoor shots (I think)... and also with the much larger sensor it probably wouldn't even need flash that much?


Well, with a film slr, DOF preview is needed a bit more, after all with a digital you just shoot and chimp the shot. With the film camera, it's nice to be able to review things "in camera" rather than just hope for the best. It does help that the film camera's viewfinder is probably a lot larger and brighter than the digital's (usually a proper pentaprism rather than the pentamirror arrangement in (say) the 450D. Being larger and brighter from the outset, you do stand some chance of being able to review the DOF "in finder" whereas with the 450D in my experience everything pretty much just went dark.

Ho hummm, this is true :(. I'm not sure then! Pretty sure the T70 doesn't have DOF preview but does anyone know is the T90 does? I'd kind of like to stick to Canon and I don't really want to move into the EOS range as I'd like to try the manual FD lenses...
 
***DOF preview but does anyone know is the T90 does***

Yes it does.
 
lso with the much larger sensor it probably wouldn't even need flash that much?

Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that with film, whilst with a digital you can just bump up the ISO and the larger the sensor the less noise and better low light capability. (Its similar with film as theres less grain with larger sized film but that means you have to use medium format or large format), with film your stuck at one ISO remember.
That means that for indoors unless your using higher speed film like 800 or 1600 you will need flash even more than with digital as you can't just turn it up to 6400 on demand.
 
Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that with film, whilst with a digital you can just bump up the ISO and the larger the sensor the less noise and better low light capability. (Its similar with film as theres less grain with larger sized film but that means you have to use medium format or large format), with film your stuck at one ISO remember.
That means that for indoors unless your using higher speed film like 800 or 1600 you will need flash even more than with digital as you can't just turn it up to 6400 on demand.


True, do you have to keep one roll of film in the camera until it is done (and therefore changing ISO is not do-able)?
 
It is possible to swap films mid roll, but you do have to make a note of how many shots you've taken on the roll, rewind the film without the film leader going into the film canister, load the other film and shoot that, then re-load the original film, set the shutter speed to as fast as it can go, put the lens cap on, and shoot however many blank shots to cover the first set of exposures +1 or 2. It's a faff, and there are lots of potential ways things can go wrong - but it IS possible :)
 
Its not very practical to change films midway through a roll, its possible but you are better off working with the film rather than trying to use it like digital.
It is possible to change the sensitivity of the film, but you must account for that when you process it.
For instance, say you are on frame 12 of a 36 frame roll of iso 100 film and you need iso 400, you could push the last 24 frames 2 stops, that is to shoot them at iso 400 which will under expose them 2 stops, then you'd over process them 2 stops.
That would mean the first 12 frames would be over exposed, but you'd get your iso 400 on the 24 that are left.
Is that making any sense ?? :)
 
True, do you have to keep one roll of film in the camera until it is done (and therefore changing ISO is not do-able)?

Well I travel with at least two cameras, not so much for different films but for different lenses for quick shots....also for backup. :cool:
 
It is possible to swap films mid roll, but you do have to make a note of how many shots you've taken on the roll, rewind the film without the film leader going into the film canister, load the other film and shoot that, then re-load the original film, set the shutter speed to as fast as it can go, put the lens cap on, and shoot however many blank shots to cover the first set of exposures +1 or 2. It's a faff, and there are lots of potential ways things can go wrong - but it IS possible :)

Or use a medium format camera with interchangeable backs ;)
 
This is all quite confusing :p. Right, I think I will just keep an eye on T70 and T90 deals and grab whichever one has the best deal on! Then I can faff about and learn all this stuff as I go!
 
Or get a Minolta Dynax 7 or 9 where you can rewind the film with the leader out and it will remember the positions of each frame for the past 8 films loaded, allowing you to switch films mid roll or double expose any frame, just select it!
 
Or get a Minolta Dynax 7 or 9 where you can rewind the film with the leader out and it will remember the positions of each frame for the past 8 films loaded, allowing you to switch films mid roll or double expose any frame, just select it!

I knew there was at least one film body that'd do that trick, just couldn't remember which one it was.
 
Or get a Minolta Dynax 7 or 9 where you can rewind the film with the leader out and it will remember the positions of each frame for the past 8 films loaded, allowing you to switch films mid roll or double expose any frame, just select it!

I kind of have my heart stuck on Canon so I can buy FD lenses and if I get good at manual focusing I can buy a cheeky FD to EF lens converter :p.
 
I kind of have my heart stuck on Canon so I can buy FD lenses and if I get good at manual focusing I can buy a cheeky FD to EF lens converter :p.

Ermm I don't think you can do that without problems, that's why Canon FD lenses were a bargain.....but now there are digital cameras out that can use nearly any old lens so the price will only go up for FD lenses.
If it was me, I would spend a few more weeks deciding which way to go using film gear.
 
...(and therefore changing ISO is not do-able)?

I am not Certain that you have indicated whether your preference is for colour or B&W film?

If you use B&W Kodak Tri-X 400 (for example) you can shoot at 400 up to 800 (same roll) and develop just the same way for the one roll i.e. you have flexibility.

Just a thought.
 
I kind of have my heart stuck on Canon so I can buy FD lenses and if I get good at manual focusing I can buy a cheeky FD to EF lens converter :p.

To be honest, if you're thinking of using the lenses on a EF camera, almost ANY other type of lens mount is better than the FD system. It's almost as if canon didn't want people to be able to re-use their expensive glass on the new system so deliberately designed the EF to be as incompatible as possible, forcing people to buy a whole new set of lenses. :naughty:

FD to EF adaptors come in 2 flavours - cheap ones with no glass in them, that provide a mechanical fit for the lens and that's all. With these the lens stays on the camera, but won't focus to infinity as the registration distance of the 2 lens systems are so different. For macro lenses this isn't a problem, and obviously, there's no degradation to the image quality as theres no additional lens in the way. The other type of adaptor comes with a lens fitted, which allows the lens to focus to infinity. They're more expensive (much more expensive if you get one with a decent lens in it) and work like a kind of short teleconverter. The one I have is pretty much like a 1.2x converter - making a 50mm f1.8 lens more like a 60mm f2.2, a 28mm f2.8 an effective 34mm f3.5 (you also lose something like 2/3 of a stop of effective aperture :() It's okay if you've got something expensive you want to re-use - say a FD 85mm f1.2 or maybe a fast long lens such as the 300mm f/2.8L, but otherwise :thumbsdown: Mine pretty much was used for testing the lenses I bought from ebay on the digital camera, and since has resided in the "handy to have but not needed every day" bag.

For manual focus lenses that WILL adapt to EF mounts, M42 is probably the way to go, though I have had some success with Contax/Yashica bayonet mounts as well (though the Contax lenses out there are probably a bit steep in price just to experiment with! Nice though :))
 
Or you can get my lovely OM2-sp with 3 lenses and a OM to EOS adaptor that I am selling in the classifieds! Price is negociable and its a cracker of a camera with superb lenses!
 
I am not Certain that you have indicated whether your preference is for colour or B&W film?

If you use B&W Kodak Tri-X 400 (for example) you can shoot at 400 up to 800 (same roll) and develop just the same way for the one roll i.e. you have flexibility.

Just a thought.

No preference, I want to be able to shoot both.

To be honest, if you're thinking of using the lenses on a EF camera, almost ANY other type of lens mount is better than the FD system. It's almost as if canon didn't want people to be able to re-use their expensive glass on the new system so deliberately designed the EF to be as incompatible as possible, forcing people to buy a whole new set of lenses. :naughty:

FD to EF adaptors come in 2 flavours - cheap ones with no glass in them, that provide a mechanical fit for the lens and that's all. With these the lens stays on the camera, but won't focus to infinity as the registration distance of the 2 lens systems are so different. For macro lenses this isn't a problem, and obviously, there's no degradation to the image quality as theres no additional lens in the way. The other type of adaptor comes with a lens fitted, which allows the lens to focus to infinity. They're more expensive (much more expensive if you get one with a decent lens in it) and work like a kind of short teleconverter. The one I have is pretty much like a 1.2x converter - making a 50mm f1.8 lens more like a 60mm f2.2, a 28mm f2.8 an effective 34mm f3.5 (you also lose something like 2/3 of a stop of effective aperture :() It's okay if you've got something expensive you want to re-use - say a FD 85mm f1.2 or maybe a fast long lens such as the 300mm f/2.8L, but otherwise :thumbsdown: Mine pretty much was used for testing the lenses I bought from ebay on the digital camera, and since has resided in the "handy to have but not needed every day" bag.

For manual focus lenses that WILL adapt to EF mounts, M42 is probably the way to go, though I have had some success with Contax/Yashica bayonet mounts as well (though the Contax lenses out there are probably a bit steep in price just to experiment with! Nice though :))

Damn, it's all much more complicated than anticipated! I'm still very doe-eyed over Canons and one of the glass converters would be decent enough for the kind of FD lens (fisheye) I'd be wanting to convert but moh :thumbsdown:. The M42 mount may be an option though :). Can you point me in the direction of a camera range or model that would be suitable? I'm thinking old enough to not have AF but I wouldn't mind a few features.

Or you can get my lovely OM2-sp with 3 lenses and a OM to EOS adaptor that I am selling in the classifieds! Price is negociable and its a cracker of a camera with superb lenses!

Hmm :p, have you seen the price of OM fisheyes :eek:?!!
 
***Damn, it's all much more complicated than anticipated! I'm still very doe-eyed over Canons and one of the glass converters would be decent enough for the kind of FD lens (fisheye) I'd be wanting to convert but moh :thumbsdown:. The M42 mount may be an option though :). Can you point me in the direction of a camera range or model that would be suitable? I'm thinking old enough to not have AF but I wouldn't mind a few features.**

...b..bu..but you can still use the T70 with a screw (M42) lens adapter, but all the digital guys are after screw lenses so it's a hunt for a bargain. So you just need to have a think, ask questions and read...the Canon fd is a versatile camera and so is the Minolta MD (but you can't get cheap minolta lenses) :(
 
***Damn, it's all much more complicated than anticipated! I'm still very doe-eyed over Canons and one of the glass converters would be decent enough for the kind of FD lens (fisheye) I'd be wanting to convert but moh :thumbsdown:. The M42 mount may be an option though :). Can you point me in the direction of a camera range or model that would be suitable? I'm thinking old enough to not have AF but I wouldn't mind a few features.**

...b..bu..but you can still use the T70 with a screw (M42) lens adapter, but all the digital guys are after screw lenses so it's a hunt for a bargain. So you just need to have a think, ask questions and read...the Canon fd is a versatile camera and so is the Minolta MD (but you can't get cheap minolta lenses) :(

Lol, what? *sigh* You mean get an FD/M42 adapter AND an EF/M42 adapter :p? Humms. I know it's silly basing all my decisions on one lens (a fisheye) but I reallllly want one :p and it's what got me into wanting to play around with a 35mm film camera in the first place. I don't think M42 is "that" much more expensive that FD from what I've seen on ebay? Also I'm not planning on buying an army of lenses, just one or two to play around with... one being a 50mm 1.8ish probably.
 
I think your best bet would be just stop over analysing things, get a T70 body and FDn 50mm 1.8 lens, a handful of film, and go out there and try shooting film, see if it floats your boat.

Use that to find out what you really want from shooting film, and what you need, then buy based on that, from a position of actually knowing what you want and need, rather than what we come up with based on our own prejudices :shrug:
 
Nope, if only because I like my photos to resemble what I pointed the camera at! ;)

Touché ;)! Haha, so do I but I do really want to play with a fisheye! I've always loved the effect, even before I had a camera or knew what it was called :p... and there is no way I am going to be able to afford one of the EF fit ones any time soon. I shall combine it with a FD 50mm 1.8 I imagine to get the more traditional/ "accurate" shots :). Kind of curious actually to see how a 50mm will look on a full-frame sensor after always having used crop bodies.

I think your best bet would be just stop over analysing things, get a T70 body and FDn 50mm 1.8 lens, a handful of film, and go out there and try shooting film, see if it floats your boat.

Use that to find out what you really want from shooting film, and what you need, then buy based on that, from a position of actually knowing what you want and need, rather than what we come up with based on our own prejudices :shrug:

Yes, I think you're right and I'm sorry if anyone thinks I've been running them round in circles! I guess I already had a decent idea in my head of what I wanted but it has been good to hear other people's opinions and be made aware of some of the problems and complications that I didn't know about or hadn't considered! Expect me back on here asking about film etc. when I do get my body and lens and start messing about with it :whistle:! Hopefully there will be some photos too :D!
 
... Kind of curious actually to see how a 50mm will look on a full-frame sensor after always having used crop bodies.

pretty much like a 35mm does on crop sensor tbh!

Yes, I think you're right and I'm sorry if anyone thinks I've been running them round in circles! I guess I already had a decent idea in my head of what I wanted but it has been good to hear other people's opinions and be made aware of some of the problems and complications that I didn't know about or hadn't considered! Expect me back on here asking about film etc. when I do get my body and lens and start messing about with it :whistle:! Hopefully there will be some photos too :D!

Wasn't having a pop at you BTW, but it was fairly obvious that there were things about film that you hadn't thought of. While I personally enjoy shooting on film, I have to say that it's not something that everyone coming from a digital background "gets" - sometimes people just can't get over the lack of immediacy - I know I had problems initially on returning to film after a couple of years of shoting solely on digital, and ended up processing and scanning my own film so that I felt like I was at least involved all the way through the process.
 
Wasn't having a pop at you BTW, but it was fairly obvious that there were things about film that you hadn't thought of. While I personally enjoy shooting on film, I have to say that it's not something that everyone coming from a digital background "gets" - sometimes people just can't get over the lack of immediacy - I know I had problems initially on returning to film after a couple of years of shoting solely on digital, and ended up processing and scanning my own film so that I felt like I was at least involved all the way through the process.

No, not at all, I think you're right... there is lots I don't know about film as the whole thing is just before my time so to speak and to be honest I don't know myself if I will be able to adjust to the step back in time :p! I am really curious about at least trying it though and learning as I go along. Time will tell if it is something I'll want to stick at or not!
 
You will find 50mm on film a lot different than on a crop sensor. Even more surprising is how wide 28mm is. I had a real shock when I first used it on my oly!
 
***Lol, what? *sigh* You mean get an FD/M42 adapter AND an EF/M42 adapter***

Well the M42 adapters for FD are not expensive....I got a genuine Canon for about £3 BIN, mind you since then everything has gone up on the bay, so non Canon made ones are going for about £6.99, so it would be another hunt for a bargain e.g a m42 lens already with a canon fd adapter.
 
I kind of have my heart stuck on Canon so I can buy FD lenses and if I get good at manual focusing I can buy a cheeky FD to EF lens converter :p.

The go for an Olympus OM, the primes are excellent and dare I say it better than Canon, plus an EOS - OM converter is readily availble.

Neither of my current OMs (OM2SP and OM30) cost more than £40 and both came with lenses that have been sold, making the cameras even cheaper!
 
Last newbie question (maybe ;))... do you get convertors that go the other way?! For example a converter to use EF lenses on a FD, M42 or OM? I think not but no harm in asking I guess...
 
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