New to the world of photography

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seanmooney

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Sean
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Hi everyone.. Im looking to get into the world of photography.

I have a big interest in cars etc and would like to be able to go to shows and take my own pictures instead of getting other people to take them for me.

First things first is i need some equipment. I dont want to go into massive money in the camera as i might only use it during the summer months so it wouldnt be viable spending a fortune on a camera and not getting the use outta it.

I dont really have a budget, i'm not really sure what a camera to suit my situation would cost. like i know my mate spent 600 quid on his cannon and tbh i couldnt see myself spending that sort of money like.

So what could you's suggest that i could invest in?

Many thanks

Sean
 
If your friend has a Canon, then it may not be a bad idea to stick with this brand as you may be able to beg and borrow lenses from him before you invest in the future. That's what I did and found it really useful.

My first camera last year was a second hand Canon 10D which I paid £130 for with a basic kit lens. Got some excellent results from it and it's nice and solid.
It will ultimately depend on how much you're willing to spend. :shrug:

Cue the Nikon brigade.....:D
 
The Nikon brigade is here! And low and behold... I also recommend you get a Canon. Don't rule out something like a 450d either. There a little smaller though. First thing I would do is go into a shop, have a feel of all the different models, and then buy the one you like feels best. But having a friend who shoots Canon really would make it an attractive choice
 
ProbertP wrote this tutorial about buying a DSLR which might help.

I'll second the 2nd hand market too. The classifieds here have some great bargains - decent cameras for a good price.

Go into a shop and try the various makes to see what you like. Then get home and trawl the classifieds looking for a second hand one, or an older model. There is a link in the Shopping and Bargains section that lists second hand shops - which might give you a bit mroe peace of mind than buying off a stranger.

Ian.
 
Well say i went with the cannon range, what would be a good model to start with for 200 to 300 quid?
 
I reckon second hand you could get something like a 450D or 30D. You might have to stretch a little over 300 for them, but it will get you a lens as well. As said though, you really should walk into a shop (jessops or similar) and pick up each camera and see what you think yourself. Most jessops/currys will have a 450d/550d (or something that is XXXd) that will compare to what you're looking for. Similarly they will have a 40D (or XXd) that will somewhat compare to the feel of a 30d. Note: correct me if I'm wrong canon users, but the XX brands are the prosumer brand? And XXX are the consumor brands? i.e., XXd being a step above the XXXd

If you want to buy new, you're going to be stuck with the XXXd brands. If you buy second hand you'll probably pick up an XXd brand which are supposed a better quality camera... but will be slightly older. And quite frankly we're still back to the question "which feels better".
 
Now I'm stuck. I use Nikon. I think it goes like this though:

450d is smaller and lighter
30d is bigger, feels more solid and of better build. Of course it's also heavier.

Now, to add more confusion there's also the 1000d... this is even cheaper again... can't say what it feels like either though!

So... it honestly does matter what feels comfortable in your hand.
 
What does your friend have by the way? He might let you have a play with his for about 15/20 mins see what you think?
 
I txt him there but he hasnt got back to me yet but i also txt aother friend of min there and he has a nikon d40.. He gets some lovely shots with his.

Say if i go to buy a second hand camera are there do's and dont's and stuff to look out for?
 
Not really. Be aware that some people sell second hand body only, and you'll be stuck without a lens. Be aware that buying from some countries (outside of EU I believe) will mean you'll have to pay duty as well. Find out how many shutter actuations it has. I.e. don't buy a 450d or 30d with about 100,000 shutter actuations. I personally would stay clear of something 40/50k+ actuations. That's means it has had a lot of use.
 
Oh, and to throw another spanner in the works... if one of your friends also has a Nikon it may not matter if you go Canon or Nikon! Both are very close competitors in the consumer brands and you could swap lenses with Mr Nikon friend if you ended up preferring the feel of a Nikon.

You're probably seeing a common theme by now... "What feels best" :LOL:. Every photography will tell you that's what matters most when chosing a camera.
 
seanmooney said:
is there much difference between the feel of a 450d and a 30d?
Click to expand...

Yep.

The XXXDs are smaller and lighter with a less sturdy build.
The XXDs are heavier and larger with a magensium alloy build. Tougher.

Having owned a 350D and a 50D, as well as having handled a 20D, I can definitely say the XXD feels less like a toy in your hands.

Starting out though, the XXXD is a very good camera.

Ian.
 
Welcome to the forum Sean.

Just a quick post as I'm in work. Agree with all of the above - & get a feel before you buy. I use a 40D with a battery pack & it can be quite a handful weight-wise. At the same time, very steady when it needs to be.

I would say the 450 would be carted around somewhere like Kilbroney easy enough. More than enough specs for your needs, and going for around the £250 mark second hand (I think :thinking:)

Keep an eye on the for sale forums here. The guys & gals on here tend to look after their kit. ;)
 
karmagarda said:
I.e. don't buy a 450d or 30d with about 100,000 shutter actuations. I personally would stay clear of something 40/50k+ actuations. That's means it has had a lot of use.
Click to expand...

Can ya explain that a bit more for me as i didnt really understand ..lol

What would a 450d cost new if i wasnt to go second hand?
 
seanmooney said:
Can ya explain that a bit more for me as i didnt really understand ..lol

What would a 450d cost new if i wasnt to go second hand?
Click to expand...

No worries :). Shutter actuations is basically how many times you have taken a photo (or fired the shutter so to speak). So if someone has used a camera and taken 50,000 photos it has had quite a bit of use. Now, that is fine if you are using a professional camera, like a Canon 5D or a Nikon D3 etc, but it's not good for the lower spec cameras. If you search on this you'll find that the average "Shutter Actuations" or photos that a 30d fires before the shutter mechanism breaks and has to be replaced is 100k. On saying this, it might last for 300k photos, but then again it might only last for 40k. That is why you you're best just go for something with a low actuation count. It also means it hasn't been used as much as something with a high shutter actuation count, and therefore will usually have less scuffs and be in better condition.

Also, as Tommo says, have a gander round the for sale section. There may be something there, and the guys on here usually look after their kit (y)
 
Oh, and sorry but I have no real idea how much a 2nd hand 450d would cost. Could be anywhere between £300 and £400 including a kit lens. Maybe even less, not sure.
 
As you will no doubt find out for yourself a lot of "how good" a photo looks will depend on how it is post-processed in photoshop etc. as much as the skill of the photographer and the camera used to take it, so don't get stuck in the mind set of "the nikon d40 takes better shots than the canon 450d" because until you get to the very top of the range there is practically no difference between them.

I would go with Canon because of the great second hand market. You should be looking at the XXXd or XXd range

A few things you should be looking out for are:

- Feel of the camera/size. the canon 10d/20d/30d/40d/50d range are bigger and chunkier than the 400D/450d/xxxd range and have magnesium alloy bodies rather than plastic. Theyre made to take a few knocks, useful for sports and outdoor stuff. My friend has a 1000d and it feels like a cheap piece of plastic.

- FPS (frames per second) rate. If you shoot moving objects it might be worth getting a XXD range. my 400d has 3.5 frames/second which is ok for me at the moment but if i shot a lot of sports (do you want to shoot rallies?) then i would consider a 30d/40d as the XXD range have 6fps.

- Newer models have better sensors, which equals less noise and cleaner photos. so don't buy anything too old.

- Number of pixels has nothing to do with how good the camera is. If you pick a 15 megapixel camera you better have a good PC because processing your pics afterwards will use a lot of memory! 8-12 megapixels is ideal for the average setup.

If you plan to shoot any rallies i would seriously consider one of the XXD range, the Canon 30d would be well within your budget - they go on here in very good condition for about £280 and you could pick up a kit lens for about £40


if you're buying second hand make sure you ask for a shutter count as this is a good indication of how much it has been used. most XXD and XXXD cameras have a shutter life of 100,000 so anything over 50,000 has had half its shutter life ;)

any more questions just ask away
 
Even a 400D with an 18-55mm IS lens would suffice.
But like the others say it is really all about the feel of the thing.
But as a beginner do as we all do and start off small.
I started with a 350d and a kit lens.
After 4 years I know have what I consider to be a more than adequate kit.
So will you.
 
mmm.. so im narrowing my choices down now to either a 30D/40D or 400D/450D

I wouldnt shoot any rallies, wouldnt really get out to rallies at all. It would be for more car shows(cars sitting in the one place) and maybe the odd day out somewhere with the mrs.

I see now about the shutter auctions.. I seen some 450D's in the sale section with like 5000 to 8000 shutter actions and one at 13000 so there welll within the threshold.
 
Whats the story with all the different lenses?
Click to expand...

You are opening up a can of worms here on what i think is probably the most boring and geeky aspect of being a photographer! (that's just my opinion though).

Basically a great lens is going to set you back a lot of money, but fortunately for people who don't have a lot of money to spend on glass there are a range of decent lenses, and among these there are handful of hidden gems.

a perfect lens (if that exists) would be:

- well built/solid
- sharp optically
- fast (have a large aperture)

There are loads of other factors to consider which would take all day to explain to a beginner, but these are what i think are the three main qualities. Which focal length you need will depend on what you shoot. For a beginner on a budget i would recommend the 18-55 IS kit lens. It's sharp and it has a good focal range and it has Image Stabilization.

basically 18-55 is the focal range and the numbers after that (f/3.5 - 5.6) give the aperture size. some are constant and others as in this example vary on the focal length (so at 18mm you can open the aperture to f/3.5 which is as large as it will go but at 55mm you can only open it to f/5.6).

Larger apertures cost more money (more glass) but are better in low light and good for shallow Depth Of Field (DOF). Shallow DOF allows you to separate the subject from the background using background blur, which is useful for sports and portraits etc but not so important for car photography i wouldn't think.

here is a good reference site which reviews all the canon EOS lenses. you can compare the lenses by build, appearance, performance etc.

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos

Hope that helps
 
seanmooney said:
Something along these lines be a good starter pack?

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=226024

The next question is about lenses.. Whats the story with all the different lenses?
Click to expand...

I'll be honest mate, don't even worry about lenses yet! The kit lens will be more than adequate for starting out. Once you learn the camera you'll start to learn more about the focal lengths and speed (aperture) of the lens. That's when you'll start to figure out what lens you might really want... but then again, the kit lens might be more than adequate.

Trust me, start small, then build :)
 
Well went round to my mates last nite and had a play about with his cannon 450D.. lethal camera. He showed me a couple of things about the shutter speeds and all, actually took a couple of class pics.

The one thing he advised me to buy was a decent flash.. He bought a flash with his camera and he showed me the difference it makes. And boy it makes a big difference to a pic with a proper flash.
 
ivandobski said:
How do you find out shutter count - is it a best guess by the seller or can you go into the system files and actually find out?
Click to expand...

You need software to check your last photo:
- Download Opanda from here.
- Take a photo
- Open it up in Opanda exif viewer
- In the list look for something like Shutter count/Shutter Actuations/Actuations/Shutter releases... or something like that.

seanmooney said:
Well went round to my mates last nite and had a play about with his cannon 450D.. lethal camera. He showed me a couple of things about the shutter speeds and all, actually took a couple of class pics.

The one thing he advised me to buy was a decent flash.. He bought a flash with his camera and he showed me the difference it makes. And boy it makes a big difference to a pic with a proper flash.
Click to expand...

Excellent, glad you liked it! And yes, a flash does make a big difference. Especially when you start using it off camera... but that's a whole new ball game for again. Once you start getting your shots and looking how to improve them, there is a sub forum here competely dedicated to lighting :)
 
He said he paid 250 for the flash on its own..lol not loking foreward to buying one of them. But its cool the way he showed me to move the flash and the different affects it has on a picture.

I think im going to try and get a second hand 450D sue to the ease of use and felt good in my hands.
 
Check out the advertiser "Flash in the pan" on this forum in the classifieds section too. He sells flahses that are pretty cheap and are supposed to be very good. They don't cost the earth either!

Obviously, you don't need to buy everything at once. A camera with kit lens is a great starting point. Then when the time is right get the other bits and bobs.
 
What other bits and bobs would i need to get?

Say if i got the advertised camera which had :

Canon 400D
Canon EFs 18-55mm lens
1x 8gb memory card
1x 2gb memory card
1x spare battery
Battery charger
Lens and camera cap
Camera strap
all manuals and paperwork that came with the camera originally
Canon Software CD and instructions
USB to PC cable
 
That's plenty to get you started :). All you really need to get going is

- Camera
- Lens
- Battery (+ charger)
- Memory card

Obiously you have a few niceties there too like the a strap, spare battery, extra memory cards.


Edit... actually... it's debatable whether a strap should be a "need" or a "nicety!" :LOL:
 
Would you suggest going for that camera based on your experience and the price of it?
 
From what we've spoke about so far I can't see why not really, but I'll not force you into it :LOL:. I had a quick look in the classifieds (I noticed 2 in there that might be of interest) and they both look like very good quality, good value cameras. If one takes your fancy then yeah, why not, go for it. I can't immediately see anything that would deter me from either sale to be honest.

But, just make sure you're aware of the classified rules before you post. Things like you can't bid over the asking, you can't post anything not related to the sale in the thread, etc etc. They are very strict in that part of the forum!

But also, don't take too long or you might miss out on a good camera ;)
 
Oh, and when you get yourself a camera, make sure you show us all here on the forum the lovely pictures you get! (y)
 
Just another thing is that my mate last nite says that i have to get photoshop.. he says that everyone shops there pics before posting them e.g. changing the resolution..

Is that true? I'd have to look about photoshop if it is.
 
Something like Photoshop is something you will definitely start to use after a while. But you don't need this straight away. Problem is though... it's very expensive. (Note: I know there's some illegal ways etc to get your hands on it for free, but I don't agree with software piracy so would never ever advise going down that route.)

The other, cheaper, and legal options are:

1. Photoshop Elements - this is what I use. It's the stripped down version of the full Photoshop. It has more than enough to get you started, and there's addons you can use that make it very powerful indeed. Costs about £70

2. You could look into something like "The gimp" which is an editing tool and can be downloaded for free and is very powerful. I used to use this, but it's a little clunky or something. Harder to use than the photoshop products

3. Other free products, but not as powerful, are Picasso, Paint.net, can't think of any more! I've used Paint.net, and it's actually very good. Basic, but has a lot of really nice features. I haven't used picasso though I'm afraid.

4. I've heard of people using Paintshop Pro... but I don't know an awful lot about it, or if it's expensive. It's not as popular as the previous 3 options though.

5. Adobe Lightroom... as per following post...

Hope this helps!
 
Oh... and there was a free Beta version of Adobe Lightroom which is also in the "photoshop" family. Not sure if they are still running that free beta, but it's definitely another option to consider. It's cheaper than photoshop too! And it's very good. A bit like Photoshop Elements, but with "themes" as opposed to editing.
 
Cheers mate.. ill let yous know what happens. Hopefully ill have a camera shortly enough.
 
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