New tripod head in development

It's interesting but I don't think it goes anywhere near a classic geared head for precision and control, ie. you will be fiddling back and forth for ages till you actually get it level, let alone horizontal and vertical alignment.
 
Studio488commercial said:
It’s basically A pistol grip head with an electronic level, not that innovative
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Yes, not that innovative. Something like a cross between the Manfrotto 222 joystick head without the handle (which is not great for fine/accurate adjustments) and the excellent Arca-Swiss P0 'upside-down' head which is smaller, lighter, very precise (for a ball head) and strong.

It's rather tall with the camera platform high above the ball which is not a good start, but the key question will be how well it adjusts and locks. It's also worth noting that when the camera is flipped to vertical the panning function is lost (same as A-S P0) so best used with an L-bracket. The electronic level indicator seems no better than a conventional bubble level and basically duplicates the electronic level built-in to many cameras these days.
 
The Manfrotto 322 head is closer to this new concept than the 222. As Hoppy and 488 say, the new thing is more bells and whistles than real innovation.
 
Im not sure about this myself. Why do you need an electronic level on a ball head when there is one inside the camera? If it was an electronic level on a levelling base I can see the advantage but not on the ball head part. Does the battery only work the level? You don’t need the battery to luck or unlock the ball?

They seem to make s big thing about you can clip the tripod head to your bag but to do that you have to unscrew it from the tripod. Not much advantage in that.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, not that innovative. Something like a cross between the Manfrotto 222 joystick head without the handle (which is not great for fine/accurate adjustments) and the excellent Arca-Swiss P0 'upside-down' head which is smaller, lighter, very precise (for a ball head) and strong.

It's rather tall with the camera platform high above the ball which is not a good start, but the key question will be how well it adjusts and locks. It's also worth noting that when the camera is flipped to vertical the panning function is lost (same as A-S P0) so best used with an L-bracket. The electronic level indicator seems no better than a conventional bubble level and basically duplicates the electronic level built-in to many cameras these days.
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My thoughts are very similar to yours, Richard. I won't be moving away from my Arca Swiss P0 and L bracket set up anytime soon.
 
It’s electronic, init?! :sulk:

I’ll be sticking with my mechanical heads thank you.
 
nigpd said:
My thoughts are very similar to yours, Richard. I won't be moving away from my Arca Swiss P0 and L bracket set up anytime soon.
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Yes, if there was a better (IMHO) ball head than my A-S P0 plus L-bracket for everyday walkabout, I'd be using it. There are some very good alternatives for sure, but this isn't one of them. I use a big Manfrotto 405 geared head for studio and other very precise working.

And what's so vital about setting up dead level anyway? You need that for panning panoramas and some architectural work (which is very easy) but not for most other things.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, if there was a better (IMHO) ball head than my A-S P0 plus L-bracket for everyday walkabout, I'd be using it. There are some very good alternatives for sure, but this isn't one of them. I use a big Manfrotto 405 geared head for studio and other very precise working.

And what's so vital about setting up dead level anyway? You need that for panning panoramas and some architectural work (which is very easy) but not for most other things.
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Urgh. Wonky pictures and spotting any clues, I hate it so being level is important to me. Actually the whole levelling faff on makes me dislike ball heads but it's the only head I have.
 
woof woof said:
Urgh. Wonky pictures and spotting any clues, I hate it so being level is important to me. Actually the whole levelling faff on makes me dislike ball heads but it's the only head I have.
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Nothing a click in LR won't fix. It's not different to cropping.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Nothing a click in LR won't fix. It's not different to cropping.
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Wastes a lot time and resolution whichever way you try to dress it. I would not fancy doing that to 50 images a day every day
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Wastes a lot time and resolution whichever way you try to dress it. I would not fancy doing that to 50 images a day every day
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It is quicker to drag a line in LR than set it up to the 9th degree. So it’s not wasting time at all, quite the opposite. I bet anything that I can level a photo quicker than you can set up a camera on a tripod. There is even a button in LR for it, it’s 1 click. Unless you can level a tripod in 1/1000th of a second.

Plus if I only shoot a photo when it is perfectly level then I will miss 99% shots in a wedding. For a landscape if it looks roughly there, it’s done. For landscape I will never get it 100% frames perfect through a tiny screen. Shoot wider than I need a little and crop.

losing like 5% of the outer edge is a non issue, I already planned for it, what’s the problem?

forget 50 images, it’s hundreds and hundreds in a wedding. It’s easy. Click Alt, pull the mouse to from left to right.

honestly, such a non issue to level a photo in LR.
 
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Whatever the grumbling TP masses think, it'll probably sell well. Photography gear is all about the marketing. Yashica Y35 anyone?

Anyway, Scott Kelby (who loves Lightroom dontcha know) reckons it's for people "who want to be pro". One of the other KS celebrities used the phrase "OMG".

Oh, btw, what exactly is 10kg of torque? Is that the same as a mass of 10kg? I thought torque was measured in something else... Anyway... Details... Shut up and take my money!
 
Raymond Lin said:
It is quicker to drag a line in LR than set it up to the 9th degree. So it’s not wasting time at all, quite the opposite. I bet anything that I can level a photo quicker than you can set up a camera on a tripod. There is even a button in LR for it, it’s 1 click. Unless you can level a tripod in 1/1000th of a second.
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With all due respect it is a minimum of a 3-5 different clicks, and your PC be better pretty quick, particularly if you've done lots of brush edits and left this to the end...

The LR button from experience typically causes far more mess and misalignment than not. It is best left alone.

I appreciate this may not be of particular importance in wedding shots, but personally if architecture and lines are clearly legible I would prefer to see them straight. You will likely shoot 97% handheld there so tripod head discussion regarding weddings is a bit far fetched.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
With all due respect it is a minimum of a 3-5 different clicks, and your PC be better pretty quick, particularly if you've done lots of brush edits and left this to the end...

The LR button from experience typically causes far more mess and misalignment than not. It is best left alone.

I appreciate this may not be of particular importance in wedding shots, but personally if architecture and lines are clearly legible I would prefer to see them straight. You will likely shoot 97% handheld there so tripod head discussion regarding weddings is a bit far fetched.
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my iMac is 2012....and it still can level a photo just fine. Try it yourself. I’m sure your computer is faster.

it’s left index finger on alt + click anywhere on screen the drag and let go.

it’s one motion done in about 1 second. Normally I drag it along the horizon on screen then it is level to that, no guessing involved. The horizon is your spirit level.
Whichever way you see it, it’s faster to do it in LR to fix this tiny 1-2degree off axis than spending time trying to get it right on a tripod if you are comparing time.

sure it’s nice to get everything right incamera but it’s not true to say it takes a long time. It is 1 second at most.

if I can do it for the entire wedding, not sure what you are complaining about having to do it for an architectural job.
 
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Harlequin565 said:
Whatever the grumbling TP masses think, it'll probably sell well. Photography gear is all about the marketing. Yashica Y35 anyone?

Anyway, Scott Kelby (who loves Lightroom dontcha know) reckons it's for people "who want to be pro". One of the other KS celebrities used the phrase "OMG".

Oh, btw, what exactly is 10kg of torque? Is that the same as a mass of 10kg? I thought torque was measured in something else... Anyway... Details... Shut up and take my money!
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I’m sure it will sell well especially going by their current crowd funding total and if the price it right. Personally I take gushing pros with a pinch of salt especially when it comes with the the tag line ‘for those who want to be pro’. How much are those pros being paid?

I still think the ‘elite’ with the battery powered level is a little pointless as in camera will work fine. The only bit where they have a point is from a corner facing outwards but I don’t think I’ve ever been in that situation before.

As the ‘ergo’ doesn’t have a battery I’m interested to see how the ‘progressive variable tension locking and unlocking buttons’ work.

It could be useful for anyone who hasn’t got a ball head yet. Other than that I don’t think it’s that ground breaking and makes all other ball heads redundant/unusable.

As for all this talk about taking time to level a camera on a tripod or level in lightroom for a landscape image you do know most landscapes photographers take quite a while to level and frame a shot before taking it. Saving a few secs to level the camera in the field rather than in Lightroom is really a mute point as often you’re set up and waiting for the right light.
 
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rob-nikon said:
The only bit where they have a point is from a corner facing outwards but I don’t think I’ve ever been in that situation before.
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"Level" means it doesn't matter which way the camera is pointed; point it at the wall to level it and then spin it around... kind of makes it hard to judge composition/focus though.
 
sk66 said:
"Level" means it doesn't matter which way the camera is pointed; point it at the wall to level it and then spin it around... kind of makes it hard to judge composition/focus though.
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It’s one of their photos which shows the ball head showing a level when set up in the corner of a room. Like you say you can level the camera but can’t see the composition, unless you can have live view on a mobile or something like that.
 
rob-nikon said:
It’s one of their photos which shows the ball head showing a level when set up in the corner of a room
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I saw it... tbh, there is nothing I saw that didn't say "gimmick" to me; an expensive solution to a non-existent problem.
If your camera doesn't have a built in electronic level, buy a 2 axis hotshoe bubble level for 5£. Heck, my cameras do have the electronic level and I still mostly use a bubble level instead (in the very rare instance it actually matters to me that much).
 
sk66 said:
I saw it... tbh, there is nothing I saw that didn't say "gimmick" to me; an expensive solution to a non-existent problem.
If your camera doesn't have a built in electronic level, buy a 2 axis hotshoe bubble level for 5£. Heck, my cameras do have the electronic level and I still mostly use a bubble level instead (in the very rare instance it actually matters to me that much).
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Totally agree. Nothing new in any way and not worth changing to. Sadly it’s shiny and brightly coloured so they will sell a load of them to wannabe pro’s.
 
sk66 said:
I saw it... tbh, there is nothing I saw that didn't say "gimmick" to me; an expensive solution to a non-existent problem.
If your camera doesn't have a built in electronic level, buy a 2 axis hotshoe bubble level for 5£. Heck, my cameras do have the electronic level and I still mostly use a bubble level instead (in the very rare instance it actually matters to me that much).
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I only really use levels (in camera & tripod) when doing panoramas. Any other time I just look at the screen & adjust so I'm happy. If I have to rotate a degree or so in LR then so be it.
 
Raymond Lin said:
my iMac is 2012....and it still can level a photo just fine. Try it yourself. I’m sure your computer is faster.

it’s left index finger on alt + click anywhere on screen the drag and let go.

it’s one motion done in about 1 second. Normally I drag it along the horizon on screen then it is level to that, no guessing involved. The horizon is your spirit level.
Whichever way you see it, it’s faster to do it in LR to fix this tiny 1-2degree off axis than spending time trying to get it right on a tripod if you are comparing time.

sure it’s nice to get everything right incamera but it’s not true to say it takes a long time. It is 1 second at most.

if I can do it for the entire wedding, not sure what you are complaining about having to do it for an architectural job.
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Level is just one dimension. There are another 2: horizontal and vertical perspective. When you get all three off it becomes an interesting puzzle, and you are lucky if you have an obvious level surface in the middle (anything else is likely false) and / or a straight vertical axis in the centre. Sometimes you get old wonky houses. Now that is really fun because you no longer know what is straight and what is not. Same goes for wonky landscape and architecture within it. Clifton bridge is a great example. I am not saying it is not possible, it certainly is, but also a very pointless exercise IMHO
Then if you are not lucky after some larger shifts, you may also need to offset one or both edges, and then find out you have image missing here or there. Then it is more time wasted in Photoshop filling these blank corners. It's could be a lot worse than a click or two.

Weddings, portraits and even more so wildlife are not the target market for precision tripod head... and I would also argue they hardly require one at all most of the time.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Level is just one dimension. There are another 2: horizontal and vertical perspective. When you get all three off it becomes an interesting puzzle, and you are lucky if you have an obvious level surface in the middle (anything else is likely false) and / or a straight vertical axis in the centre. Sometimes you get old wonky houses. Now that is really fun because you no longer know what is straight and what is not. Same goes for wonky landscape and architecture within it. Clifton bridge is a great example. I am not saying it is not possible, it certainly is, but also a very pointless exercise IMHO
Then if you are not lucky after some larger shifts, you may also need to offset one or both edges, and then find out you have image missing here or there. Then it is more time wasted in Photoshop filling these blank corners. It's could be a lot worse than a click or two.

Weddings, portraits and even more so wildlife are not the target market for precision tripod head... and I would also argue they hardly require one at all most of the time.
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i am talking about 1-2 degree and you are talking about larger shifts.

You and I are having totally different conversation here....
 
Raymond Lin said:
i am talking about 1-2 degree and you are talking about larger shifts.

You and I are having totally different conversation here....
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We are one way or another. We are coming at it from very different angles and requirements.

In response to the first point your level shift may only be 1-2 degrees, but vertical and horizontal are typically over 10 degrees both ways if you don't pay meticulous attention, or perhaps decide to do intentionally to replicate tilt and shift lens. Either way you have to be mindful you may need either simple to replicate data on the edges (i.e. plain wall or plain sky, field of boring grass, etc), or extra image width and this is not always straightforward (complex patterns, and you are the widest available setting against the wall)

Finally, my 22MP output will allow me printing a nice A1. After a good amount of distorting and cropping this is nearer A2. For online / agency work I couldn't care less, but for printing this is key. If your camera is 50MP+ this gets let important.
 
Hoppy beat me to it talking about the P0, a much neater and proven design but yes the Arca swiss prices can be hard to tolerate, if this big ugly head is considerably cheaper they might be on to something.

The marketing guff was annoying though, we have existing designs that only require one hand, we have heads with spirit levels that have LEDs built into them too. There's not much information explaining how the lock/unlock actually works which makes me suspicious.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Level is just one dimension. There are another 2: horizontal and vertical perspective. When you get all three off it becomes an interesting puzzle, and you are lucky if you have an obvious level surface in the middle (anything else is likely false) and / or a straight vertical axis in the centre. Sometimes you get old wonky houses. Now that is really fun because you no longer know what is straight and what is not. Same goes for wonky landscape and architecture within it. Clifton bridge is a great example. I am not saying it is not possible, it certainly is, but also a very pointless exercise IMHO
Then if you are not lucky after some larger shifts, you may also need to offset one or both edges, and then find out you have image missing here or there. Then it is more time wasted in Photoshop filling these blank corners. It's could be a lot worse than a click or two.

Weddings, portraits and even more so wildlife are not the target market for precision tripod head... and I would also argue they hardly require one at all most of the time.
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Sounds like an issue more suited to be solved by a tilt shift lens than an electronic ballhead.....
 
Just you wait. The next thing will be the electronic motorised field camera: only $9,999 on Kickstarter. Deliveries to commence 2029...

Large format photographer under focussing cloth Northampton P3190002.JPG
 
You'll give Steve ideas for the forthcoming Chroma!ectro!
 
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