Newbie: What camera to buy? 600D or A57?

[EnthusiastOwned™]

Hello Everyone!

Firstly, I'm new to the Talk Photography forum.. So Hi!

Secondly, I'm after my first DSLR.

I've always been into photography and I have played about with loads of point and shoot camera's. The past year I've been borrowing my step-dads 1000D and I've really enjoyed playing with it. But it's time to get my own.

I'll mainly be using the camera for shooting cars (mostly static); outside in the typical English weather but also in artificial light and a I'll be taking a lot of late night/dusk shots too. I will obviously be using the camera for other normal occasions too; e.g. for portraits if I'm away with the girl etc.

I want a camera which is good for beginners and intermediates alike. I want one which will last.

I've been to a few local photography shops and I think I've narrowed it down to the Canon 600D or the Sony Alpha A57 (There is a possibility for upgrading to the 650D and the A65 - But it's the choosing between Canon or Sony is what I'm really struggling with).

The shops I went to said the Sony has a better spec but the Canon gets more sales because it's a great camera and a trusted brand with loyal followers. In all honesty I like them both, I prefer the feel of the Canon and the tilt screen is nicer and better located. But the Sony's 12fps, panorama mode and allegedly awesome night time ability is swaying me.. The thing with the canon is that the brand has more support... Giving more options when learning from other canon users, more 2nd hand lenses and it just has a better history in the DSLR world. What's everyone's opinion on the camera's?

Either way I'd be going for a standard 18-55mm lens, a 50mm f1.8, possibly a 10-22mm f3.5-4.5(or equivalent) wide angle (I had a play with the canon one in-store and I absolutely loved it) and then a circular polarising filter to remove any glare from car bodywork/glass.

How does this sound for a half decent start set up?

One last thing.. Can anyone recommend a decent on-line retailer or is it advised to buy from a well known local store for piece of mind if things go wrong (even if they are a few hundred pounds dearer)?

Any info, opinions or advice would be grateful!

 

[EnthusiastOwned™]

Anyone?

I've been having a good research and a play with some camera's and I'm going for the canon 650D. I'm sticking with Canon because I'm familiar with their menus and layouts; plus they seem a more popular choice and there is much more user information available for them. I went for the 650d over the 600D due to the better ISO, better HD video and I'm a big fan of the touch screen!

I'm just looking where to buy. Most online/highstreet shops within the UK are competitively priced. I've been to visit a local well known shop called Harrisons (Sheffield) and they are really helpful and competitively priced.

But I've seen he likes of Digitalrev and Panamoz though the suppliers forum on here and they works out about £300 cheaper for the same kit. My only concern is that they are in HK.

What's peoples views?

 

[LongLensPhotography]

My advice is to pick up a nice used 40D / 5D or d300 from ebay and put the saving to a better glass and a few books on the subject. A lot in the latest entry level cameras is just marketing, but at the end of the day they are small, cumbersome to use, primitive AF, tiny (or even fake!) viewfinder, poor controls and not the best sensor either for quite a bit of money. 18-55 is the worst thing you can do to your photography.

 

[heidfirst]

In all honesty I like them both, I prefer the feel of the Canon and the tilt screen is nicer and better located. But the Sony's 12fps, panorama mode and allegedly awesome night time ability is swaying me..

which is more important to you then - handling all the time or a few features which you will use rarely & some of which can be done (& improved on) out of the camera by pp?
& does your stepdad have lenses that you can share?
The A57 certainly has it's pros over the 600D but it doesn't sound to me from what you have said (& not said) that they are things that are high up in the priorities list for you. [of course your priorities may change 6 months down the line ]

 

[EnthusiastOwned™]

My advice is to pick up a nice used 40D / 5D or d300 from ebay and put the saving to a better glass and a few books on the subject. A lot in the latest entry level cameras is just marketing, but at the end of the day they are small, cumbersome to use, primitive AF, tiny (or even fake!) viewfinder, poor controls and not the best sensor either for quite a bit of money. 18-55 is the worst thing you can do to your photography.

I'm a little reluctant to buy used as I'd prefer some kind of warranty; I would prefer to buy new and I'd be prepared to pay a little more for the right camera. I did look at the 60D but from what I've read there isn't much between the 650D and 60D in terms of picture quality and the advanced features of the 60D are way above my experience level, to the point where I'm confident I won;t use them for some time.

And yeah, 18-55 won't really be used other than as a standard lens for unimportant stuff really. I don't need a zoom lens as most of my shots will be close up and I'll have a good amount of space top play with.

which is more important to you then - handling all the time or a few features which you will use rarely & some of which can be done (& improved on) out of the camera by pp?
& does your stepdad have lenses that you can share?
The A57 certainly has it's pros over the 600D but it doesn't sound to me from what you have said (& not said) that they are things that are high up in the priorities list for you. [of course your priorities may change 6 months down the line ]

My stepdad only has the basic lens, plus he hates lending me his stuff!

You're right.. The A57 has some features which are nice, but I won't really use. The panorama is just cool and had the wow factor when I was shown it, but software can do it afterwards if need be and the 12fps won't really be used in what I aim to do; currently. The 3.7fps on the 600D (and 5fps on the 650D) will more than suffice.

But like you say, in 6 months time things might change, hence why I want a good camera I can grow with. I think the 650D ticks all the boxes to be fair.

 

[heidfirst]

The possibility also exists that you preferred the Canon handling slightly because you are more familiar with it from existing use.

A quick look on Camerapricebuster shows the A57+18-55 as £455 @Argos & a 650D+18-55 is ~£600 - the £150 difference will buy you a 50/1.8, memory card, bag etc.

 

[digital]

But I've seen he likes of Digitalrev and Panamoz though the suppliers forum on here and they works out about £300 cheaper for the same kit. My only concern is that they are in HK.

What's peoples views?

I've just spent the other side of £3200 with Panamoz and have been impressed with their service: excellent communications and ridiculously speedy delivery. They reduce the website price by 5% if you pay by BACS, which is a little scary, but there's plenty of us who have done it. Check out the Shopping forum for more accounts of purchases.

 

[EnthusiastOwned™]

The possibility also exists that you preferred the Canon handling slightly because you are more familiar with it from existing use.

A quick look on Camerapricebuster shows the A57+18-55 as £455 @Argos & a 650D+18-55 is ~£600 - the £150 difference will buy you a 50/1.8, memory card, bag etc.

Yeah, I actually think that played a big factor, I'm used to Canons system. but the touch screen just made it much more fluent. I blame the iPhone.

The extra £150 doesn't really bother me to be honest, in the grand scheme of things it isn't too much; I'd rather pay more for the right camera. Plus I feel the re-sale value of the Canon over the Sony will make up for it in the long run.

I've just spent the other side of £3200 with Panamoz and have been impressed with their service: excellent communications and ridiculously speedy delivery. They reduce the website price by 5% if you pay by BACS, which is a little scary, but there's plenty of us who have done it. Check out the Shopping forum for more accounts of purchases.

Yeah, I have seen Panamoz all over the forum. The camera which came, was it UK spec or HK spec? What about the instructions, language and charger etc?

 

[heidfirst]

Plus I feel the re-sale value of the Canon over the Sony will make up for it in the long run.

I doubt it, they will both depreciate rapidly & by a similar %.

 

[digital]

The camera which came, was it UK spec or HK spec? What about the instructions, language and charger etc?

I'm not aware of any differences in camera spec. There are two manuals, one in English, one in Spanish. The charger comes with a UK spec lead.

 

[Dannbodge]

I bought a 600d from digitalrev last week. Took 3 days to come and was much cheaper than from the uk.
Came with a euro plug with UK adaptor and an English manual. No one would know that it came from Hong Kong unless you told them

 

[applemint]

I've been to a few local photography shops and I think I've narrowed it down to the Canon 600D or the Sony Alpha A57 (There is a possibility for upgrading to the 650D and the A65 - But it's the choosing between Canon or Sony is what I'm really struggling with).

The shops I went to said the Sony has a better spec but the Canon gets more sales because it's a great camera and a trusted brand with loyal followers.

I think that's a fair summary. The most important difference between the Canon and Sony is the EVF on the Sony - some people love them, others hate them, some people even say they make them feel a bit queasy!! The Canon (and most other dslrs, Nikon etc) have optical viewfinders. An evf will give you a live view of exposure etc - but it's also a case of if you prefer the evf or an optical viewfinder.

The Sony has a much faster frames per second rate for shooting action/sport which may or may not be useful - when shops are saying better spec then this is probably one of the things they mean that on paper at least make the Sony better value for money.

For video the Sony may be better (don't really do video so not 100% sure on that).

You can get some fairly inexpensive old Minolta AF lenses which will work on the Sony.

The Sony has in body image stabilisation which means you only pay for it once rather than paying for it in each lens.

Sony has a non standard hotshoe and I think the same with the external mic slot, so will need an adapter for flashes with a standard hotshoe or use of a Sony flash.

Canon has a wider selection of lenses and the advantages of being one of the top two brands (economies of scale, wider availability of new and used lenses and accessories etc).

You can't really go wrong with either camera - but hopefully the above will help in the decision?

 

[tezmed]

i started my dslr'in with a 1000d and have recently upgraded to a 650d and am loving it- im sticking with canon as its what im used to.....

test both out and see what your preference in hand is and then decide, as its pointless purchasing something that your not going to gel with!!

 

[nufflovetola]

Canon 600d isn't all that to be honest. I have it and not a big fan but I will say if you go for the 600d forget about the kit lens it isn't worth it with 600d you will need a very good glass. Do also try Nikon, d5100 is better than 600d and cheaper

 

[Phil Bennett]

Yeah, I have seen Panamoz all over the forum. The camera which came, was it UK spec or HK spec?

Is there a difference, if yes, what is it? Are they not built in the same factory?

Regards

Phil

 

[gadgeteer]

I've been a Sony shooter for a few years now. Currently have an A55, A77 & a Nikon D700.

There's much to love about the Sony. The EVF makes a lot of things easier. What you see is pretty much what you get with the Sony. Focus peaking, focus zoom, object tracking are all really cool features you won't get with the Canon. The live-view works far FAR better than Canon/Nikon does thanks to the SLT design. You can pretty much hand the Sony to someone who isn't used to SLR's and they'll be able to shoot live view. Hand a DSLR to some stranger who isn't used to it and they'll be flummoxed.

The EVF is a love it or hate it. Personally I think the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. On the A57 it's an LCD EVF though which whilst good is nowhere near as good as the A65/A77's OLED version. If you are tracking fast moving subjects (eg. sports photography) then I suggest you stick with the Canon OVF.

The downsides to the Sony are as follows:

SLT design means you lose some light meaning noisier photos. To be fair, the A57 is very good still. Perfectly usable at ISO 1600 and with some tweaking in Photoshop/Lightroom I'd say even ISO 3200 is ok.

Sony/Minolta flash hotshoe means if you ever progress onto studio work then you will need an adapter. Accessories are not as readily available because less people use Sony. They are only a few quid so it's not a biggie but the worst is when you've forget it!

Lens wise it hasn't been a problem for me. In fact an advantage being on Sony. The major lenses are all there. Only ones missing are specialist ones which you are unlikely to ever need. The fact it has steadyshot built inside means EVERY lens you get is automatically stablised. No need to worry about IS lenses. I've actually bagged some bargain glass given there is less competition on eBay for lenses. In fact a lot of people forget about the Minolta lenses. For example the 70-210 f4 beercan lens is an absolute bargain and you can get this for < £100 from eBay.

The 12FPS is a waste of time. It's far too fast. The buffer far too small. I use mine in low continuous almost exclusively. That said, it's still faster than most competitors even at that speed!

Panorama is ok. Used it a few time. Ditto with the HDR mode.

Nighttime mode I think you mean MFNR or handheld twilight mode. I used this a few weeks ago and it was absolutely awesome. It was pitch black, I popped the camera on my tripod, put it into MFNR, levelled it using the inbuilt spirit level and was away whilst my Nikon toting friends with their OVF's were struggling to see anything. Downside is you only get JPG's but they were awesome.

Canon......personally I can't get on with Canon at all. The menu's don't seem to make sense. TV/AV mode confuse me and I hate where they put their wheel. The availability of L lenses does somewhat make up for this but you have to be realistic if you are going to shell out the readies for L lenses.

Now I have my D700 technically that camera batters the A77 in terms of image quality. Certainly in low light it trounces it, as it should. BUT...and it's a big but. In terms of what's fun to use the Sony is far more fun. In terms of which camera I can give to my other half and kids to shoot with. Again it has to be the Sony.

I'd argue the A57 will be the better camera for you as a beginner. But if you are intent on being a serious photographer, maybe even one day being a pro then I'd say go Canon.

 

[Ulfric M Douglas]

Is everyone missing his need for a good wideangle lens?
Personally I know nothing about wides on APS-C sensored Canons or Sonys but surely the price, quality and availability of a good wide prime or good wide zoom would be paramount to the question of which system to buy ... surely?
He wants to take pictures of cars, and occasionally a portrait of his girl.
After a good wide he'll want a decent 50 : both do a cheapish OK-ish 50mmF1.8/1.7 right?

 

[heidfirst]

Is everyone missing his need for a good wideangle lens?
Personally I know nothing about wides on APS-C sensored Canons or Sonys but surely the price, quality and availability of a good wide prime or good wide zoom would be paramount to the question of which system to buy ... surely?
He wants to take pictures of cars, and occasionally a portrait of his girl.
After a good wide he'll want a decent 50 : both do a cheapish OK-ish 50mmF1.8/1.7 right?

Not really a problem on either system imo.
Sony do a good cheap 35/1.8 as well as a 50/1.8 (& of course both stabilised).
As well as the Sony 11-18 (OK, not stellar) you have Sigma, Tamron & Tokina zoom options & Samyang for MF primes.

 

[EnthusiastOwned™]

Thanks for everyone's input on this.

Going by my research, shop visits and everyone's input on here I've come to this conclusion: As for the Sony / Canon argument I think it's fair to say on paper the Sony is a better camera. But as for the brand support Canon wins that one. The people who have Sony's swear by them, as do the people who own Canon; they swear by their choice of brand. It's all swings and round-a-bouts. I think good results can be had from both, it's all down to personal preference and what feels comfortable for the user.

On this note I have decided to go for the canon 650D - 100%. I'm already used to Canon's system so the Canon camera's felt more natural in my hand; then with the touch screen; even more natural thanks to my iPhone. I still honestly believe that the Sony A57 is a better camera features wise, but Canon's usability and brand support together with the fact that the features were so close and the superior ones on the Sony won't really be used by me was the clincher.

So i'm now just pricing up:
Canon 650D with 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II Lens Kit
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II Lens
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Lens
A spare battery,, carry case and tripod.

I'm also after suitable CPL filters for the 50mm and 10-22mm. I believe I need 52mm and 77mm filters. Can anyone recommend me some good ones? I was looking at the Hoya range. Would I require a standard CPL, or the HD or pro?

Also, I've decided to buy from either my local UK retailer or DigitaRev. I'm swaying towards DigitalRev as the whole kit works out about £300 cheaper, but it's the piece of mind in case something goes wrong which is worrying me, Decisions decisions... :bang:

 

[Bucketp]

Might not be much help but when I bought my first camera I spent hours in Jessops Edinburgh trying out cameras Nikon Canon and Sony and in the ned came out with a Sony A500 purely because it felt right in my hand, all the controls were were I could easily reach them it was comfortable, The Canon's and Nikon's I was looking at had pretty much the same spec at the time but didnt fell any way near as good a quality camera as the Sony.
I have since upgraded to an A700 and love it.
As others have said there are pro's and con's to all makes go with what you are comforatable with as once you make the decision you are going to stay with that brand for a long time.